This is serious.. so pay attention....

[jordoo]

a lot of people prefer topic view because it is "neater" to look it, and it is also egalitarian - it forces you (or at least encourages you) to read every post in a thread.


with thread view, you can self-edit and skip posts by posters you would prefer not to read, and sub-threads that have either gone off topic or have rambled off into a point of minutiae that holds no interest for you. while aesthetically unpleasing, it is organizationally superior. And, as RF pointed out, at the last two stops for this board, individual members had the option of choosing between thread and topic view, so you could keep your preferred "look and feel" while others could have their own.

As long as the board appears with each thread as one line where you have to click to drop down the thread view I would prefer that to what we have. If they all come up maximized in thread view it takes forever to scroll through. I do agree with your point about organization and making it easier for people to skip that which they prefer not to read.

 

[Alsacs]

As Potter Stewart famously said in his famous Supreme Court decision about p..ornography (which ironically was written by a friend of mine who was clerking for him at the time) ... "I know it when I see it."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_know_it_when_I_see_it

Honest to god that was the first case I read in law school where I burst out laughing reading that decision Jacobellis v. Ohio and the 2 live crew obscenity cases are hilarious reads for how out of touch how 1960's and 1990's men thought society was like.

Your friend wrote that for Justice Stewart that is hilarious. Obviously your friend is a fan of rational basis theory.

 

[JeremyCuse]

So you think its thread hijacking and off topic to discuss and ask about these things after CTO's OP? The attitude that others should acknowledge and move on without voicing their concerns or asking for clarification is a strange one in deed for me to digest.

Wow that last line is wonderful. Who's pushing who would be my question? (not you but in this situation in general)

When people start comparing CTO's post to the board becoming N. Korea I call that Hijacking. I have no issue with you looking for clarification or expressing your concerns thats what many of us do in normal threads when someone posts about a topic or breaks some news about a player, coach, situation etc. That being said I thought CTO's post was pretty clear and Bees pretty much echoed that. Based on that I am not sure what clarification you are really looking for. Also while some of your points maybe valid your doing yourself a disservice when you have a half dozen plus posts on this thread where you seem to be all over the place jumping from questioning whats ok to then requesting people complaining out themselves to something about personal attacks. If you have some concerns why not take a few minutes to send a PM to CTO and Bees or if your not comfortable with that why not reach out to Tomcat who is one of the top 3 posters on this board and also a moderator.

I am not a moderator and while I am a long term poster here (15 years) I have never felt the need to contact a moderator over the state of the board or consider leaving. That being said its clear CTO and Bees want to clean things up a bit and keep the discussions more on track and that may or may not be the result of some posters complaints. Even if that was 100% the cause of CTO's post (complaints from long term posters) why not just simply acknowledge what she is saying and continue to enjoy this board? Versus the congressional investigation this has now turned into.

In regards to my last line that was a general comment not really for this thread or even this situation (post hijacking). With the bball season hitting high gear and the issues surrounding a new stadium and fball coachign staff changes more and more posts are starting to slip from syracusefan.com standards and getting into how some other message boards are run with insults, personal attacks etc. I know a lot of these mods personally and they wont hesitate to start cleaning house if they have to because they wont let this place turn into syracuse.com. I wanted to simply give people a heads up that they should keep themselves in check (myself included) when Syracuse loses its first game and things happen were not thrilled about.

 

[manleyzoo]

Jordoo.. I think you are a great poster, also. I have a fondness for Jekelish because he was literally our FIRST student poster when the board started more than 14 years ago (okay, Jekelish, Brian Orange and Beth were our first student posters, but you get what I mean). I have never met Jekelish, but I feel we have known him through his four years at SU, his various jobs, his marriage and his son. And I'm not the only one ... who's "known" Jekelish during that period... and he's by far not the only person we've seen grow from student to parent. Chip, Millhouse, UEO, Bayside, etc, etc, etc. That's what I feel is special about this place. Over the years, we've become a family... with new family members arriving every week. And we constantly get to know new folks at tailgates and bars and other get-togethers -- or just on line. That is what makes this board special and different from other fan forums. And that is why we are trying to keep it an intelligent fan forum.

Hey, what about me and Longtimefan? We're originals, too, you know, maybe not student posters, but ex-student posters...albeit old ones.

As for the stupid vs. intelligent issue, any conversation, whether it's in-person or virtual, carries the potential to digress or de-evolve into something other than its initial intent. Anyone here has the option to click out of it at any time, just like he or she has the right to walk away from an in-person discussion. Who's to say a threat that starts in one direction, meanders through nonsense but ends up at an intelligent place in the end is less worthy than one in which the same theme is steadily carried throughout?

The sensical or non-sensical aspect of it belongs to the readers, not the moderators. To me the only comments suitable for censorship are obvious and already well-defined...anything else is noise filterable by admins or--to repeat a refrain--self-deportation. Otherwise we're talking about editors not moderators. It's a big difference and one that General (who I believe writes the most astute stuff here by far) points out.

 

[orangecuse]

There was nothing IMO that was wrong with it other than people deciding to take offence.

You hit the nail on the head with your remark! We all as individuals selectively choose what we personally decide what offends us...one's emotions and ensuing responses of course can vary on any given day...

 

[Shawn91111]

Whats going on the last few weeks sheesh? First the chat room thing and now this. Do people really tattle to mods? Interesting.

 

[jekelish]

I'd just like to call attention to the fact we have several good posters who are seriously thinking about leaving because they feel they are being singled out and ostracized.

So what's the difference between them being chased away and the anonymous complainers being chased away?

 

[orangecuse]

Whats going on the last few weeks sheesh? First the chat room thing and now this. Do people really tattle to mods? Interesting.

Of course not, children tattle. I think we all have to be of legal age to post here.

 

[JeremyCuse]

I'd just like to call attention to the fact we have several good posters who are seriously thinking about leaving because they feel they are being singled out and ostracized.

So what's the difference between them being chased away and the anonymous complainers being chased away?

I think the bottomline is that no one is being chased away and CTO and the other mods aren't asking anyone to leave or change who they are. CTO simply placed a post asking that serious threads stay that way, doesnt mean there cant be funny moments in those threads, dissenting opinions, or that they cant evolve into discussions about other similar issues/topics.

What CTO and Bees and the other mods are asking is that posters here use common sense and there heads. If you see a post started by Edowd, Tee, Marsh, Lawrinson CuseTroop, and others theres probably a good chance theres going to be a lot laughs, hijinks and a good time had by all. Doesnt mean those guys arent starting serious threads or posting in them but if its clear in their OP that there looking to start some humorous discussion then by all mean roll with it. If Francis, Jake, Moqui, SWC and others start a thread thats cleary of a serious nature then lets keep it on topic and give your thoughts and insight. Seems like its pretty clear what the mods are asking.

 

[Shawn91111]

Of course not, children tattle. I think we all have to be of legal age to post here.

I was asked for 2 forms of ID when I signed up...so maybe

 

[rrlbees]

I'd just like to call attention to the fact we have several good posters who are seriously thinking about leaving because they feel they are being singled out and ostracized. So what's the difference between them being chased away and the anonymous complainers being chased away?

Incorrect. Nobody is being chased away. But certain behaviors are going to cease. If some take offense to that, that is their own problem. People miss the whole message CTO was putting out there, and it wasn't because posters are running to mods. That's just the tipping point of complaints that some of us get everyday. We delete posts or threads everyday. Yesterday must have been 25 of them. And this isn't the first time CTO has posted some warning about certain types of posts. If people can't figure out what is acceptable and what's not, then they should keep reading CTO's post up too over and over until they do.

 

[jordoo]

When people start comparing CTO's post to the board becoming N. Korea I call that Hijacking. I have no issue with you looking for clarification or expressing your concerns thats what many of us do in normal threads when someone posts about a topic or breaks some news about a player, coach, situation etc. That being said I thought CTO's post was pretty clear and Bees pretty much echoed that. Based on that I am not sure what clarification you are really looking for. Also while some of your points maybe valid your doing yourself a disservice when you have a half dozen plus posts on this thread where you seem to be all over the place jumping from questioning whats ok to then requesting people complaining out themselves to something about personal attacks. If you have some concerns why not take a few minutes to send a PM to CTO and Bees or if your not comfortable with that why not reach out to Tomcat who is one of the top 3 posters on this board and also a moderator.

I am not a moderator and while I am a long term poster here (15 years) I have never felt the need to contact a moderator over the state of the board or consider leaving. That being said its clear CTO and Bees want to clean things up a bit and keep the discussions more on track and that may or may not be the result of some posters complaints. Even if that was 100% the cause of CTO's post (complaints from long term posters) why not just simply acknowledge what she is saying and continue to enjoy this board? Versus the congressional investigation this has now turned into.

In regards to my last line that was a general comment not really for this thread or even this situation (post hijacking). With the bball season hitting high gear and the issues surrounding a new stadium and fball coachign staff changes more and more posts are starting to slip from syracusefan.com standards and getting into how some other message boards are run with insults, personal attacks etc. I know a lot of these mods personally and they wont hesitate to start cleaning house if they have to because they wont let this place turn into syracuse.com. I wanted to simply give people a heads up that they should keep themselves in check (myself included) when Syracuse loses its first game and things happen were not thrilled about.

I'm not super organized in my thoughts and due tend to jump around. Often this happens because something someone posts has me going in another direction. If its a disservice to me then I'll live so long as its only hurting me. My main issue is that it seems one group of posters is being preferred over another because of their complaints. I also feel that this group is complaining because of the posters more than what is posted. In other words there are mods and long time posters who have their own clicks, start OT threads and get side tracked with personal back and forth. No one is complaining about that because its fine just like IMO it should be fine for any group of posters to do so. I like you have no real need to PM a mod and to me this thread should invite discussions on its topic. Perhaps hashing it out here can get everyone closer to the same page. I'm all for everyone participating and keeping it in this thread so it doesn't bother any who don't wish to see it.
I will most likely make myself scarce if and when we lose a game. I did this for almost two weeks last season. It can get rough when we are losing but I would think we would want these more lighthearted posters around even more when things are down.

 

[Orangezoo]

I thought CTO's initial post was a clear representation of what was expressed discreetly by some other posters. There has been some piling on of those who dislike the things pointed out to the point of accusing without saying a name. Thats unfortunate because I honestly believe that was not the intent here at all. Beating around the push acting like you aren't calling someone out yet you actually are is mind boggling. What is wrong with simply saying " hey " " can you try and stay on topic or can you not post that here ?" And Jeremy - I hear you and your point to jordoo. However, I also see some finger pointing from behind the bushes as well. I think that right there is an issue. The fact CTO had to do this is frustrating. It should not be the mods job to echo the feelings of certain posters. As I said before it puts them in a bad spot. I will say I honestly didn't care for bees demeanor in his posts earlier either as it implicates vs just saying hey orangezoo would you mind not getting into personal conversations in a post? That is my honest opinion. And tomorrow I will enjoy the other great posts bees does make without worrying about expressing my opinion about that one set of posts.

I don't understand why we can't be civil and direct about this. Moderators are there to keep things in order and clean up when junk gets spewed from time to time but not to have to micro manage this place. Reminds me of when someone has a minor issue that can be talked out at work and goes directly to HR instead of having a civil, professional conversation with the peer or manager they have an issue with. And for example I have had several heated exchanges expressing frustration in threads and said how I felt about those posters saying that. The next day we are liking eachothers points for sharing a similar thought. I think we are going over the top with this. I appreciate the mods handling this the best way they can but can we as adults just stand up and raise our hands vs getting upset tossing a PM to a mod? Or can we simply be direct and not point fingers at what a certain poster did anonymously and just make a comment at the source and within the thread? I love this board and all the many opinions be they polar opposites of mine. I fear this thread itself might turn off a number of posters feeling they are a problem and thats not a good thing. It also is no fault of any of the mods. Its our community so we should speak up and be honest in the moment.

 

[Marsh01]

Hey, what about me and Longtimefan? We're originals, too, you know, maybe not student posters, but ex-student posters...albeit old ones.

As for the stupid vs. intelligent issue, any conversation, whether it's in-person or virtual, carries the potential to digress or de-evolve into something other than its initial intent. Anyone here has the option to click out of it at any time, just like he or she has the right to walk away from an in-person discussion. Who's to say a threat that starts in one direction, meanders through nonsense but ends up at an intelligent place in the end is less worthy than one in which the same theme is steadily carried throughout?

The sensical or non-sensical aspect of it belongs to the readers, not the moderators. To me the only comments suitable for censorship are obvious and already well-defined...anything else is noise filterable by admins or--to repeat a refrain--self-deportation. Otherwise we're talking about editors not moderators. It's a big difference and one that General (who I believe writes the most astute stuff here by far) points out.

This^^^^^

 

[JeremyCuse]

I thought CTO's initial post was a clear representation of what was expressed discreetly by some other posters. There has been some piling on of those who dislike the things pointed out to the point of accusing without saying a name. Thats unfortunate because I honestly believe that was not the intent here at all. Beating around the push acting like you aren't calling someone out yet you actually are is mind boggling. What is wrong with simply saying " hey " " can you try and stay on topic or can you not post that here ?" And Jeremy - I hear you and your point to jordoo. However, I also see some finger pointing from behind the bushes as well. I think that right there is an issue. The fact CTO had to do this is frustrating. It should not be the mods job to echo the feelings of certain posters. As I said before it puts them in a bad spot. I will say I honestly didn't care for bees demeanor in his posts earlier either as it implicates vs just saying hey orangezoo would you mind not getting into personal conversations in a post? That is my honest opinion. And tomorrow I will enjoy the other great posts bees does make without worrying about expressing my opinion about that one set of posts.

I don't understand why we can't be civil and direct about this. Moderators are there to keep things in order and clean up when junk gets spewed from time to time but not to have to micro manage this place. Reminds me of when someone has a minor issue that can be talked out at work and goes directly to HR instead of having a civil, professional conversation with the peer or manager they have an issue with. And for example I have had several heated exchanges expressing frustration in threads and said how I felt about those posters saying that. The next day we are liking eachothers points for sharing a similar thought. I think we are going over the top with this. I appreciate the mods handling this the best way they can but can we as adults just stand up and raise our hands vs getting upset tossing a PM to a mod? Or can we simply be direct and not point fingers at what a certain poster did anonymously and just make a comment at the source and within the thread? I love this board and all the many opinions be they polar opposites of mine. I fear this thread itself might turn off a number of posters feeling they are a problem and thats not a good thing. It also is no fault of any of the mods. Its our community so we should speak up and be honest in the moment.

While I understand what you are saying, you have to keep in mind that some people/posters aren't fans of confrontation and would rather express there opinions to a mod that they may know versus getting into it personally with another poster. Personally when I see someone getting over the top I have no issue pointing it out. I haven't really dealt with the hijacking issue myself so I can't really comment there but I would find it a bit odd to tell someone "hey can you get back on topic here". Mostly from the point that I probably wouldnt be concerned about it. That being said its obviously becoming a huge issue because Bees indicated above that 25 threads were nuked yesterday, that is a crazy number to me. I personally was away from the board until the game started and wasnt on much after but somethings wrong when the mods have to nuke 25 threads that is an insane number.

 

[cusetown1]

I was told by a moderator a few years ago this forum was intended to be for "water cooler discussion". Um what exactly are the rules for water cooler discussion ? I know it's different at every office but this place is turning into Initech.

 

[jekelish]

Incorrect. Nobody is being chased away. But certain behaviors are going to cease. If some take offense to that, that is their own problem. People miss the whole message CTO was putting out there, and it wasn't because posters are running to mods. That's just the tipping point of complaints that some of us get everyday. We delete posts or threads everyday. Yesterday must have been 25 of them. And this isn't the first time CTO has posted some warning about certain types of posts. If people can't figure out what is acceptable and what's not, then they should keep reading CTO's post up too over and over until they do.

It's not "incorrect" you simply disagree. There is a difference, especially since people have told me they feel they are being singled out. As far as the bit about it not being about posters running to mods and that not being the point of the OP? Well:

In the past few weeks, I have gotten multiple private messages from several long-time good posters ... saying they are leaving the board because serious, intelligent threads are constantly being destroyed and made unreadable. They point out that many threads that start out intelligently... soon get hijacked by juvenile garbage in which a few posters exchange endless posts that have no bearing on the subject at hand ... and which make no sense to anyone else.

Seems like a pretty cut and dry statement to me. There's nothing in the OP about deleted messages, the entire reason given is posters complaining in PMs.

 

[rrlbees]

It's not "incorrect" you simply disagree. There is a difference, especially since people have told me they feel they are being singled out. As far as the bit about it not being about posters running to mods and that not being the point of the OP? Well: Seems like a pretty cut and dry statement to me. There's nothing in the OP about deleted messages, the entire reason given is posters complaining in PMs.

And people have complained for a long time, it's just gotten worse because the behaviors have gotten worse.

 

[PoppyHart]

Yet another suggestion:

Why don't the mod's simply delete the contents of an offending thread and insert the language "This post has been deleted b/c of it's offensive or otherwise inappropriate behavior"?

This way,
1. The poster is publicly identified, and
2. The poster and (the public, to the extent they read the initial post) know what the troubling contents were

After a handful of deletions, perhaps a time-out from the board would be warranted. Kinda like the NBA's treatment of technical fouls.

Of course, this would require the moderators to be consistent in their treatment, and this would probably create accusations of selective enforcement.

 

[jekelish]

And people have complained for a long time, it's just gotten worse because the behaviors have gotten worse.

And now you're contradicting yourself, saying it IS about people complaining, and not about the post deletions as you previously stated, saying the recent complaints were a tipping point to the deleted posts/threads. I sympathize with the job of a forum moderator, I really do, as I've been one myself for forums rowdier than this one. But is it the deletions, the complaints, or a combination? I assume it's the combination, but that was not stated early in this thread.

It's also hard to miss the fact that what's acceptable seems to often be determined by the person doing the posting. Some people get away with a hell of a lot more than others (I admit I seem to get away with more than some people, so I'm counting myself here). And as Poppy points out, it'd make things a whole lot easier if the offending posts were identified and edited so we can see that it is, in fact, consistent, and the offending parties can get a better sense of where the line truly is.

 

[rrlbees]

And now you're contradicting yourself, saying it IS about people complaining, and not about the post deletions as you previously stated, saying the recent complaints were a tipping point to the deleted posts/threads. I sympathize with the job of a forum moderator, I really do, as I've been one myself for forums rowdier than this one. But is it the deletions, the complaints, or a combination? I assume it's the combination, but that was not stated early in this thread. It's also hard to miss the fact that what's acceptable seems to often be determined by the person doing the posting. Some people get away with a hell of a lot more than others (I admit I seem to get away with more than some people, so I'm counting myself here). And as Poppy points out, it'd make things a whole lot easier if the offending posts were identified and edited so we can see that it is, in fact, consistent, and the offending parties can get a better sense of where the line truly is.

No, you're mixing 2 things. We have gotten complaints for a long time. They are now more frequent in number because the behavior has gotten worse. But the deleting of posts or threads and the banning of people whether it be for 1 day or permanent has never been because of complaints and that has increased due to the behavior change also. There is also a report function that some use because it is impossible to read every single post and some bad stuff gets through and people will report it.

Instead of trying to question things, just accept the facts of CTO's post that things are going to change.

 

[jekelish]

No, you're mixing 2 things. We have gotten complaints for a long time. They are now more frequent in number because the behavior has gotten worse. But the deleting of posts or threads and the banning of people whether it be for 1 day or permanent has never been because of complaints and that has increased due to the behavior change also. There is also a report function that some use because it is impossible to read every single post and some bad stuff gets through and people will report it.

Instead of trying to question things, just accept the facts of CTO's post that things are going to change.

That's fair enough.

I stand by the statement that some posters seem to be able to get away with murder while others have posts deleted almost as second nature no matter the content.

 

[jordoo]

It really seems like the mods friends can post as they wish and are now trying to make a behind the scene push against those they do not like. I hope this is not accurate but its my main conserne and the impression that I am getting.

 

[rrlbees]

It really seems like the mods friends can post as they wish and are now trying to make a behind the scene push against those they do not like. I hope this is not accurate but its my main conserne and the impression that I am getting.

Who are these "friends"? And what is defined as friends? I know which people are my friends outside this board and I rarely if ever see a childish or inappropriate post by them. I'm sure they have, but not in numbers that would make me remember them. Except for Jarhead whose had about 100 posts deleted. Jake? TexanMark? Jeremy? CTO? Cuseguy? Cherie? TOL? BillOrange? GOSU? Cuseregular? Lincoln?

 

[JeremyCuse]

It really seems like the mods friends can post as they wish and are now trying to make a behind the scene push against those they do not like. I hope this is not accurate but its my main conserne and the impression that I am getting.

If you have issue with what a poster is saying and feel its over the top you should point it out or let Bees or CTO know. I have been lucky enough to know a lot of the mods outside the board and many of there "friends" on this board are lurkers, they hardly ever post. I dont know Bayside personally but I dont get the impression hes allowing someone to go rogue because hes friends with them outside this board.