This is the best I've felt about Marrone, ever

[OrangeFoo]

We saw hints of this offense against USC last year, then we tabled it for the year. We need to see this O game in game out. But yes I was totally shocked at the pace and having the base set be a shotgun formation. Now we need to make sure it is more vertical than horizontal.

 

[Crusty]

Otto someone has hacked your account.

 

[kingottoiii]

596 yards. Last years bunch had no capability of putting up those types of numbers.

Listen Mr 0 for 3 in SU turning the corner, have you not learned your lesson by now? It was one game. It was the first game where the O is at an advantage as your opponent has less info on you and your players. It was against a D that is tailor made for giving up a lot of passing yards. They cannot cover anyone and have zero ability to rush the passer. We were down 35-13 so we had to pass it a ton to catch up. Was the WV game not more impressive on O start to finish? Was the K St game not more impressive start to finish?

We did a GREAT job on O this game. No one is questioning that. The question is can play well again and can we consistently do it. If we can then there is no reason why we cannot win the BE this year. If we cannot we may not make a Bowl. Bottom line is we are a week away from our 7th straight loss. 596 is meaningless without the W.

 

[qdawgg]

For a long time I've tried to explain why we did things the way we did; young players, lack of talent, injuries, waiting to recruit the right type of players, etc. I even defended the staff most of last year.

The game was fun and exciting to watch, despite the loss. I loved the positives from the game and there were a ton of positives to get from this game. Probably the biggest 3; we finally have guys on both sides that physically look the part, the offense didn't look completely and utterly inept, and the team didn't quit - they battled back and showed a ton of heart (same goes for the staff too).

However, we've seen this from time to time. Pinstripe bowl, WV last year, Cincy game the year of Pinstripe, Rutgers 3 years ago. Unfortunately this is just 1 game and until I see what the "offensive system" is going to be for an entire year I'm not convinced that the staff won't revert back to their conservative approach. I'm okay with adapting the system to the game, if a team can't stop the run - run it down their throat. I will reserve (or try) to reserve judgement until at least halfway through the season. But I did like what I saw. I'm not expecting the same output all season but I want to feel as if there is a different approach from what we've seen the last few years.

 

[Crusty]

Occam's razor - the simplest answer is usually correct. The offense was not working and we had lost 5 straight and have not been able to win in conference so they realized they had to change. I don't think it is any more complicated than that.

 

[Czar]

I am not sure how much of a college O this is. The running game is college but the passing game and formations are still pro.

The passing game is definitely not pro style, at all.

 

[suloyalfan]

Given my posting history, lack of Marrone hero worship and general lack of approval in the past on many of the decisions our staff has made with the football program, I'm probably one of the last people expected to rally the troops in Marrone's support. It's about to happen though. Here goes...

I wasn't supposed to be able to watch the game yesterday due to family commitments. Those commitments got pushed back to later in the day. I stopped watching the games last season because I got tired of seeing the "kill clock and play for later" offensive philosophy. But, with a new season and some cautious optimism I decided to tune in.

For the first time in over a decade I saw an actual college offense in Syracuse. And not just any college offense, but one that potentially looks really good, one that is suited to the Dome and to our talent level. I saw an offense that took control of the defense, and I saw an offense that performed at an extremely high level without 3 of its 5 best players (Pugh, Lemon, Stevens). I could not have asked for any more. I stated before the season that I had low expectations for wins and mostly wanted to see some progress on offense to be content. Yesterday was a difficult loss to stomach, but the positives far outweigh the negatives.

I have to hand it to Marrone and Hackett. I really did not believe that they would ever get it, but man, it sure looks to me like they figured it out. That offense is exactly what we need to be able to compete, and to be able to recruit. The Dome is conducive to playing fast and throwing the ball a lot. We played fast and threw the ball an absurd amount. We had an offense that was almost able to overcome all of their own mistakes, plus mistakes on defense, plus mistakes on specials. There isn't anybody in the Northeast running anything quite like what we saw yesterday. We've finally matched our unique stadium to a regionally unique offense. Recruits will see Marcus Sales haul in double figure passes and realize that could be them. They'll see Wales make a lot of catches out of the TE spot and realize that TEs that see the ball that much can't help but attract the attention of NFL scouts. They'll see that a team that plays that fast must have a capable line with guys in great shape, and any offense that moves the ball that well must have a solid line, and they can be a part of that solid line. They'll see that a team that plays that fast is going to need to cycle a lot of guys in to be successful (10 different players carried or caught a pass yesterday), so there's a lot of PT to be had and a lot of balls to go around. Quarterbacks will see that offense and envision themselves standing at the statistical peak of the conference, and dare I say, NCAA. Defensive players will see that offense and know that they're free to perform without having to carry a team.

In short, this new offense will pay enormous recruiting dividends. While people say that star rankings don't matter, the % of our classes made of three star recruits or better has improved each season under Marrone. I believe that trend will continue and will be heavily bolstered by our, wait for it, OFFENSIVE SYSTEM.

Yes, for the first time in forever we actually have an offensive identity not defined by vague things like "out tough" or "ball control." We are a no huddle, pass based offense. HELL YES. Let me run some numbers by you - 58, 62, 59, 66, 64, 74, 74, 60, 73, 79, 78, 67 for an average of 67.83. Does anybody know what that is? Those are the number of offensive plays we tallied per game last season, including OT periods. We ran 95 plays yesterday.

Let that sink in for a minute. 95 plays. 95! In regulation! That's Oregon territory my friends. We ran 27 more plays yesterday than we averaged last season. That is a 40% improvement. That is a balls out fantastic development. We even won in time of possession! We got off a crap ton of snaps and won TOP.

Two things really make me happy though. 1, the staff had excuses yesterday to not commit to this offense but they stuck with it. With their best OL, receiver and receiving TE out, the staff could have made the choice to try to grind it out again. People probably would have understood. Instead, they committed to what they're doing with the new offense, and lo and behold, it performed. Those three guys, we're going to get them back, and that's going to make the offense even better and even more dangerous. 2, the mentality changed. I know a lot of people were frustrated by the false start at the end of the first quarter. I can understand the frustration, but you're missing the big picture. The fact that we tried to get that play off indicates a major, much needed philosophical shift in our offense. We now value opportunities to make plays more than we value clock. Valuing clock didn't get us anywhere. Valuing opportunities to make plays will put points on the board.

I don't know what these developments mean for wins and losses this season. I see Go revised his prediction up. I may revise my prediction up as well, although it won't be as bold a thing to do because I only predicted 4 wins since I really did not believe our staff would adapt an honest to goodness kick ass college offense. I view the new developments on offense as being more big picture stuff that will pay off over time. Now is not the time to lose faith in the staff. I think there were some times last season where it might have been justified, but now of all times you should not be hopping off the bandwagon. We have a college team to route for now, not a team of players that happen to be in college that are trying to look like they're NFL. Let's support this and see it through.

That said, there are a couple of things that concern me going forward:

1. I don't think Smith or PTG are the answer going forward. I was disappointed that AAM and Morris didn't see the ball. I believe our best talent at running back is the youngest talent. Marrone has said in the past that if two players are pretty much tied performance wise, he'll play the younger one because their youth gives them a better chance to improve. Supposedly there wasn't much separation at RB this preseason. If that's true, let's see the young bucks.

2. We committed to this offense for one game. We need that commitment to last all season.

3. We finally have a punter that can blast the piss out of the ball. Fisher averaged 52 yards on his three punts. That tells me two things. One, we were punting from the right place on the field, and two, he can really boom it. Unfortunately, punt coverage was an absolute trainwreck. I saw people complaining about Fisher outkicking his coverage. That's nonsense. Fisher's kicks aren't the thing that need to change on the punting unit. Some people have mentioned that we may not have ideal personnel out there. Whatever it is, that badly needs to be fixed.

4. Our personnel and coverage on the last drive were extremely questionable. That was the wrong time to get conservative. A new QB in the 4th quarter that has to score a TD in a very loud venue? To me that feels like the right time to be creatively aggressive.

5. For a coach that's big on discipline and accountability, we don't really play disciplined and accountable. That needs to improve. Some of it will - the false starts and stuff don't really bother me. That's a consequence of what we're doing on offense now. I can live that. Some of the other stuff though... I don't understand why certain things aren't sinking in, 4 years into it. They hurt us on a regular basis. We should be able to fix that stuff, but we've been saying that for a long time now.

6. Glad to see they're letting Nassib run. I think he ran too much to be all that effective. Let's hope for a happy medium between last year where he wouldn't run at all and yesterday when he carried it more than anyone (really, he did. 12 carries for Nassib to 10 for Smith).

Anyway fellow Orange people, I am on the road to conversion. We've been an abused fan base for a long time. I can understand why some would feel that yesterday's loss was just another merciless punch to the gut. That's not what I'm taking away from yesterday though. I'm taking away the growth in our staff, new offensive identity, and hope for the future, not just in game performance but also for what our offense should mean to recruits. This is the time to believe.

Finally... someone who saw the same game that I did. Hallelujah!

 

[orangehipfan]

solid post, completely agree on the defense on the last NW scoring drive. The drive took less than 2 minutes with no real big plays. We gave up 26 yards on a 2nd a 7 play where we looked completely confused, otherwise nothing big.

Big difference in the game was we get the ball around the 30 early and get 3 points (then a nice drive that ends in another 3) , we never held them to 3, they always got 6. We dominated until the punt return TD and in 10 seconds we are trailing.

I liked their coaches call on 4th & 2 at the 42. He did not make it but he showed some confidence in his team. We an not continue to kick field goals like we have in the past. A lot of the yardage differential is wiped out by field goals and long special teams plays. That stat is a bit deceiving.

Let's see how the team progresses as the year continues before we pass judgement. Moral victories are getting old.

 

[Millhouse]

Occam's razor - the simplest answer is usually correct. The offense was not working and we had lost 5 straight and have not been able to win in conference so they realized they had to change. I don't think it is any more complicated than that.

why is that simpler than the idea that the coaches think they're better now?

i find that i never agree with anyone who ever says occam's razor

 

[Crusty]

why is that simpler than the idea that the coaches think they're better now?

i find that i never agree with anyone who ever says occam's razor

You must be wrong a lot then.

 

[tipphill]

4th and 2 from the 6yd first possesion and we kick a fg???? your kidding right? awfull call. as was the prevent d in the last possesion. i do like the receivers and defense.

 

[GoSU96]

4th and 2 from the 6yd first possesion and we kick a fg???? your kidding right? awfull call. as was the prevent d in the last possesion. i do like the receivers and defense.

They didn't drop and play coverage that whole possession. And on 3rd and 15 they made the passing QB scramble out of bounds. It's 4th and 9 but for the PF. The play before they blizted and got a sack.

 

['72 Orange]

4th and 2 from the 6yd first possesion and we kick a fg???? your kidding right? awfull call. as was the prevent d in the last possesion. i do like the receivers and defense.

While the prevailing wisdom by many that taking the points was the "smart" move - I disagree. When we have a very makeable opportunity to get 7 pts on our 1st drive we should not piss it away. If we don't make it we should have enough faith that our D can give our O the ball in great field position. The "prevent" D is agonizing to watch. Against a pure passer in the most critical drive of the game we need to bring the heat. If we are going to lose, I'd much rather lose playing aggressive D than playing back on our heels.

Love the no huddle. Should continue to pay big dividends - especially once we get our injured first stringers back on O.

 

[Jake]

The original poster makes a very interesting point about valuing plays over valuing the clock.

The final play of the third quarter shows this perfectly. The next to last play ends with less than 35 seconds on the game clock, last year we would have let the clock run out. Saturday Nassib huried the team to the line and got off a final snap- oh and it was the bomb to Kobeba for six.

 

[Cuseregular]

(response to KingOttoIII)

now here's the crazy thing, I (and I think you) usually come from the opposite place. I'm usually rather the optomist trying to get others to see the silver lining. Hearing me and GO at the post game tailgate and you'd think someone switched bodies. I hope he's right.

Marrones already said publicly whoa we shouldn't expect this type of offensive going forward, putting the quibash (sp?) on an "offensive system". Everyone needs to remember that this was Northwestern, NORTHWESTERN. Not that they arent historically an improved program overall no doubt, but they have huge significant flaws and have zero chance of winning the big ten. And we still make the same mistakes to lose to them middling B-10 team. And here is you key line, "We did a GREAT job on O this game. No one is questioning that. The question is can play well again and can we consistently do it."

I think they can and will improve overall in a posititvve direction, but will it once again be enough to overcome the continuing mistakes in other areas that are unchanged. Including a new error of Schafer all of a sudden getting conservative when we needed anything but. One effective blitz package at the end with numerous 3 man rush only sets, this against a second string Qb. Are you kidding me? If and until I see things coming together more overall going forward I cannot get excited.

Me thinks that quite a few are setting themselves up for an emotional swing that won't be pretty.

 

[Crusty]

I don't know how I do this but my post (below got caught up in yours, I've deleted yours and mine is below)

now here's the crazy thing, I (and I think you) usually come from the opposite place. I'm usually rather the optomist trying to get others to see the silver lining. Hearing me and GO at the post game tailgate and you'd think someone switched bodies. I hope he's right.

Marrones already said publicly whoa we shouldn't expect this type of offensive going forward, putting the quibash (sp?) on an "offensive system". Everyone needs to remember that this was Northwestern, NORTHWESTERN. Not that they arent historically an improved program overall no doubt, but they have huge significant flaws and have zero chance of winning the big ten. And we still make the same mistakes to lose to them middling B-10 team. And here is you key line, "We did a GREAT job on O this game. No one is questioning that. The question is can play well again and can we consistently do it."

I think they can and will improve overall in a posititvve direction, but will it once again be enough to overcome the continuing mistakes in other areas that are unchanged. Including a new error of Schafer all of a sudden getting conservative when we needed anything but. One effective blitz package at the end with numerous 3 man rush only sets, this against a second string Qb. Are you kidding me? If and until I see things coming together more overall going forward I cannot get excited.

Me thinks that quite a few are setting themselves up for an emotional swing that won't be pretty.

[/quote]
I think we all have fear of post WVA deja vu but IMO this time is different - we ran a hurry-up virtually all game and the team executed very well and did not tucker out. We had different formations and threw the ball down the field. Granted, we probably got more yardage on long passes by PI than completions but still we threw the damn thing. 95 plays is amazing.

I have no doubt we are going to have our problems this year but NW wasn't Rhode Island, Tulane or even Toledo. Last year I got dumped on when we were winning and I expressed concern about our performance vs lousy teams. Everybody game me that win is a win crap. I don't have those concerns after this game.

I have no idea what our running game will be. We threw so much Saturday that we needed guys in there we could trust to block which is why I suppose we did not see Broyld, AAM or even Morris ar RB.

The only real disappointing things were the mental mistakes, which certainly were horrible. The coaches need to focus on getting guys heads in the game and I am sure they will. I was tempted to say that nothing focuses them mind more than watching your mistakes repeated over and over again on ESPN, which apparently does not work with Keon - maybe it will work with Smith.

 

[JeremyCuse]

I am not sure how much of a college O this is. The running game is college but the passing game and formations are still pro. It will be interesting to see going forward how much has really changed. Through 3 quarters yesterday it was the same O but at a quicker pace. There were still a bunch of short passes to the TE and passes in the flats to WR that by design won't get more than 4-5 yards max. There were still a lot of bunch formations which actually invite 8 in the box and do not spread teams out. When we started to take shots down the field the O took off. Was that out of necessity or will we see that more this year? Also when you are playing a team that is one of the worst pass rushing D's and has an awful secondary, why in the hell do you wait so long to attack their weaknesses?

Overall it was a very encouraging day for the O. But I still think there are a lot of questions going forward. The O teased us the first 7 games last year looking pretty good and scoring some points. Then the last 5 games they were as bad as can be. Until we can prove a functional O in BE play, I am skeptical. That shouldn't be difficult since the BE is not strong, but it shouldn't have been difficult the last 3 years either and we got worse as the year went on. Playing against teams who know you and have a tone of film on you has been our issue on O. IMO the real evaluate of Marrone and the O starts vs Pitt (assuming nuttin crazy happens the next 3 games).

Pretty much nailed it, call me whatever but I dont understand the celebration around here. I was extremely happy with the O yesterday and the D for the most part but as you noted the same problems (special teams, flags, turnovers) once again were an issue and there were still way to many short passes and bunch formations that resulted in little or no gain. As I posted in another thread I want to see this kind of attacking Offense against Stony Brook, Minnesota, and Pitt before I start declaring corners have been turned. Marrone pretty much allready admitted we wont throw the ball this much every game so what does that mean more of the short passing game?

 

[Scooch]

I've been banging the PLAY FASTER drum for a couple years so it would be totally disengenuos to not offer up a huge kudos to Marrone and Hackett for finally doing it.

I don't care how bad N'Western's secondary may be, or how many bunch formations we ran, we still put up nearly 600 yards of offense. Geez Louise, I thought this was the board where people cared only about results? Even if our offensive production falls buy a third for the rest of the year we'll still be TONS better than we've been for nearly a decade.

That being said, I'm still righteously pissed that we lost. This program manages to squander opportunities at such a discouraging rate, and Saturday was yet another one.

Hopefully we're sitting here at the end of the season lamenting that we could have had 9 wins, instead of 8, had we just not made a few mistakes against N'Western. I just hope we're not doing the same thing but over 5 wins instead of 6.

 

[Millhouse]

I've been banging the PLAY FASTER drum for a couple years so it would be totally disengenuos to not offer up a huge kudos to Marrone and Hackett for finally doing it.

I don't care how bad N'Western's secondary may be, or how many bunch formations we ran, we still put up nearly 600 yards of offense. Geez Louise, I thought this was the board where people cared only about results? Even if our offensive production falls buy a third for the rest of the year we'll still be TONS better than we've been for nearly a decade.

That being said, I'm still righteously pissed that we lost. This program manages to squander opportunities at such a discouraging rate, and Saturday was yet another one.

Hopefully we're sitting here at the end of the season lamenting that we could have had 9 wins, instead of 8, had we just not made a few mistakes against N'Western. I just hope we're not doing the same thing but over 5 wins instead of 6.

Seriously. It's was two games of offense for us a couple years ago and it's not like nw is that bad compared to other big east teams

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

 

[Crusty]

We can only play the team in front of us and the O did a great job Saturday. Competition will get stiffer but we will get better and better as the deeper we go into the season.

 

[RF2044]

I've been banging the PLAY FASTER drum for a couple years so it would be totally disengenuos to not offer up a huge kudos to Marrone and Hackett for finally doing it.

I don't care how bad N'Western's secondary may be, or how many bunch formations we ran, we still put up nearly 600 yards of offense. Geez Louise, I thought this was the board where people cared only about results? Even if our offensive production falls buy a third for the rest of the year we'll still be TONS better than we've been for nearly a decade.
.

The above should be required reading for the board.

 

[Aweart23]

I've been banging the PLAY FASTER drum for a couple years so it would be totally disengenuos to not offer up a huge kudos to Marrone and Hackett for finally doing it.

I don't care how bad N'Western's secondary may be, or how many bunch formations we ran, we still put up nearly 600 yards of offense. Geez Louise, I thought this was the board where people cared only about results? Even if our offensive production falls buy a third for the rest of the year we'll still be TONS better than we've been for nearly a decade.

That being said, I'm still righteously pissed that we lost. This program manages to squander opportunities at such a discouraging rate, and Saturday was yet another one.

Hopefully we're sitting here at the end of the season lamenting that we could have had 9 wins, instead of 8, had we just not made a few mistakes against N'Western. I just hope we're not doing the same thing but over 5 wins instead of 6.

I counted 9 new starters from last year on offense
Arguably our top two players on offense out (Lemon and Pugh)
Top rusher from last year graduated
Top SIX receivers from last year either graduated or injured and not playing
in addition to the 9 new starters, Broyld, Clark, Trudo, Phillips & Cutler all played
New tempo and new system

Here were the results:
33 First Downs
596 total yards
120 rushing (4.2 ypc)
470 passing (10.6 ypc)
1 SACK
I don't remember a holding call on the OL (there was one on Jarrod West)
60% success rate on third down
100% on fourth down

Lots of execution mistakes to fix...
But the difference between what was on the field on Saturday and what was on the field the last TEN years is tremendous

 

[Aweart23]

Marrone pretty much allready admitted we wont throw the ball this much every game so what does that mean more of the short passing game?

I suspect it means more of a running game.

Leach throws the ball 2/3's of the time, Chip Kelly runs it 2/3's of the time

I suspect, depending on the opponent and their strengths and weaknesses, the offense may run 60/40 in either direction.

Running the ball successfully is not a bad, evil thing

 

[tipphill]

I suspect it means more of a running game.

Leach throws the ball 2/3's of the time, Chip Kelly runs it 2/3's of the time

I suspect, depending on the opponent and their strengths and weaknesses, the offense may run 60/40 in either direction.

Running the ball successfully is not a bad, evil thing

we can't run the ball well. nw was a mediocre run defense at best, and we still had issues. unless we getb outside we don't have a chance running the ball. at best we are sub par

 

[Aweart23]

we can't run the ball well. nw was a mediocre run defense at best, and we still had issues. unless we getb outside we don't have a chance running the ball. at best we are sub par

We were 90th (ypc) in the country last year running the ball against good and bad defenses..

Against NW they ran for 120 yards (4.2 ypc) thats right around 50th in the country out of 110 schools.
We are average, with a QB who runs like Herman Munster.

Do the math on 15 more running plays at 4.2 ypc, if we were more balanced (45 running, 50 passing).
That's 180 yards rushing or top 35 in the country last year. We are not as bad at running the ball as people make out.
Yes its based on one game...against NW...