ticket pricing thread

[HRE Otto IV]

because bball people aren't going to the games. the why not crowd are presumably no shows. get people in those seats. who cares about 45 bucks. people in seats will buy beer and make tv look less stupid

The product sill stinks. So you go from someone paying $45 + $205 and being a no show to offering $92.50 single game tickets and no one buying them because the product sinks. SU would lose $250 and still have those seats empty.

 

[Jake]

How? Let's use your assumption that 90% of FB A level people are also BBall people. So for FB A level (assuming all tickets sold) has 3645 FB/Ball and 405 FB only. The FB onlies are paying $300 less each so SU loses $121500 in football revenue. The 3645 are paying the same so no difference. The BBall onlies will be 6000 A level seats minus 3645 FB/BBall which comes out to 2355 STHs. They are going from $820 to $515 so SU loses $718,275 in BBall revenue. Just using A level alone your plan costs $839,775 in total revenue. And that is assuming that you don't lose a single BBall/FB combo STH.

Ha! You're right. There's some screwed up logic in my numbers when you back them out. I assigned the wrong values to the existing revenues. I did the sports individually instead of combining overall revenues.

This is what happens when you don't have access to excel and are working with pen and paper. If I get the time and energy I'll redo this.

The result would be a net increase in the cost of owning both, and a net decrease in the cost of owning just one...again, reducing the discount of purchasing both.

 

[Millhouse]

The product sill stinks. So you go from someone paying $45 + $205 and being a no show to offering $92.50 single game tickets and no one buying them because the product sinks. SU would lose $250 and still have those seats empty.

i'm starting to regret bothering here.

my assumption is that people who get expensive basketball season tickets view football tickets as a relatively inexpensive add on.

they're more likely to no show than people who pay a lot more per game for football.

judging by all the no shows, it looks to me like the tickets they do sell are to basketball fans who no show.

it's harder to imagine no shows for people who only buy football and pay a lot more for those games.

my assumption is that the incremental $40 dollar donation could be easily recouped by lowering the required football only donation

the biggest problem here is the high donation they demand from football only. it seems like the athletic department splits the fan base into rich price inelastic high rollers and upper deck lowlifes like me.

 

[Millhouse]

maybe they recognize the problem but don't dare lower prices because they know they'll jack them up to pay for the renovations. taking lumps now to avoid bad press later. maybe they think the renovation is the hail mary that will save attendance. feels better to blame an old dome than bad pricing

 

[Millhouse]

Ah preferred seating..

the doctor is in! you're probably cringing at my bad assumptions here

 

[IthacaBarrel]

maybe they recognize the problem but don't dare lower prices because they know they'll jack them up to pay for the renovations. taking lumps now to avoid bad press later. maybe they think the renovation is the hail mary that will save attendance. feels better to blame an old dome than bad pricing

Seems like the route they are taking..

 

[HRE Otto IV]

i'm starting to regret bothering here.

my assumption is that people who get expensive basketball season tickets view football tickets as a relatively inexpensive add on. Agree

they're more likely to no show than people who pay a lot more per game for football. Agree

judging by all the no shows, it looks to me like the tickets they do sell are to basketball fans who no show. Agree

it's harder to imagine no shows for people who only buy football and pay a lot more for those games. Agree

my assumption is that the incremental $40 dollar donation could be easily recouped by lowering the required football only donation Disagree

the biggest problem here is the high donation they demand from football only. it seems like the athletic department splits the fan base into rich price inelastic high rollers and upper deck lowlifes like me.

We both agree that lowering the cost of football tickets makes them more attractive. Currently the cost of a season ticket and donation is $142.50 for A level tickets. Using Jake's model would reduce that to $92.50, which IMO is still too high to get people in those seats given the current product. If you get rid of the combo pricing and have just FB and BBall (which is what is the better solution IMO) then you would need to get 1 person at the $92.50 for every 2 at the $41.67 that the BBall/FB person pays. I don't think that happens which means you have less tickets sold and less revenue despite the lower cost of tickets.

IMO the better solution for A level seats is:

BBall only $820 per seat
FB only $210 per seat
Combo ZERO discount

That makes the cost of an individual game $69.17 for A level seats. Those can get sold. You lose zero money in BBall revenue. FB revenue you gain $165 per seat for the old combo people and lose $440 per seat for the FB only people. The unsold seats are more likely to be purchased since they are now half the cost.

 

[Millhouse]

We both agree that lowering the cost of football tickets makes them more attractive. Currently the cost of a season ticket and donation is $142.50 for A level tickets. Using Jake's model would reduce that to $92.50, which IMO is still too high to get people in those seats given the current product. If you get rid of the combo pricing and have just FB and BBall (which is what is the better solution IMO) then you would need to get 1 person at the $92.50 for every 2 at the $41.67 that the BBall/FB person pays. I don't think that happens which means you have less tickets sold and less revenue despite the lower cost of tickets.

IMO the better solution for A level seats is:

BBall only $820 per seat
FB only $210 per seat
Combo ZERO discount

That makes the cost of an individual game $69.17 for A level seats. Those can get sold. You lose zero money in BBall revenue. FB revenue you gain $165 per seat for the old combo people and lose $440 per seat for the FB only people. The unsold seats are more likely to be purchased since they are now half the cost.

another assumption of mine is that not having miles of empty seats on TV has some monetary value. it's obviously a fuzzy imprecise thing but it's something that wildhack might know about.

it will take a lot of expensive donations to overcome recruits turning on a tv and seeing no one at the game and not realizing there are lots of people in the nosebleeds not shown.

i acknowledge there is risk from a pure revenue standpoint, i'm just saying it's a small risk and not the only consideration

 

[Jake]

Agreed...

Reworking my numbers it comes out to something like:

$820 for BB only
$515 for FB only
$1,000 for both

If you want to reduce the discount completely, and not affect BB only, it's:

$820 BB
$347 FB
$1,167 Both

This gets your single game tickets to $92...offer a 15% discount and its 80 bucks a ticket. Still a tad high. We're still making a lot of likely inaccurate assumptions.

To be honest, the sections where you would have the greatest impact would be this type of price structure in the c and d level for FB.

 

[Jake]

The other assumption I'll make is that this will all be addressed when the stadium is re-done and thousands of seats are lost.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

To expand on the price change I proposed...

Taking Jake's assumption that there are 4050 A level FB seats and assuming 2/3 of the people in those seats are also BBall A level people we currently have:

1350 paying $650 for a total of $877,500
2700 paying $45 for a total of $121,500
Total $999,000
Donation price per game is $108.33 which is factored into single game ticket prices

If you change it to $210 for all FB tickets:

1350 paying $210 for a total of $283,500
2700 paying $210 for a total of $567,000
Total $850,500
Donation price per game is $35 which is factored into single game ticket prices

Max lost revenue $148,500

So the max revenue under the current structure is $999,000 assuming 2/3 of the A level people are also BBall A level people. If that number is higher than 2/3 though that reduces the max revenue greatly. Also how close are we at selling all those A level tickets? The further away from 100% we are, the less risk of making a change. Increasing the football cost from $45 to $210 for BBall A level people will surely lose revenue, as not everyone will want to pay the extra $165 a year. However the single game tickets will sell a lot more at $69.17 vs $142.50 which should make up for the loss of BBall people.

In theory the end result would be more tickets sold and more people in the seats for roughly a loss of $150k. That cost should be worth it as it increases perception of the program for fans, recruits, and marketing partners.

 

[hoopsupstate]

They also have to be careful because when JB retires, there's no guarantee that the BB program will remain at the current level.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

Agreed...

Reworking my numbers it comes out to something like:

$820 for BB only
$515 for FB only
$1,000 for both

If you want to reduce the discount completely, and not affect BB only, it's:

$820 BB
$347 FB
$1,167 Both

This gets your single game tickets to $92...offer a 15% discount and its 80 bucks a ticket. Still a tad high. We're still making a lot of likely inaccurate assumptions.

To be honest, the sections where you would have the greatest impact would be this type of price structure in the c and d level for FB.

I wouldn't touch BBall prices. If anything they should go up as I believe just about every A level ticket is sold.

FB prices need to be fixed. IMO it is the discount which is artificially inflating the single game prices. If you get rid of the discount completely, while reducing the FB donation the result would be fair single game ticket prices. The question is what is the optimal price?

Currently BBall people pay $45 for FB, how much can you go up without losing too many STHs.

Currently FB people pay $650 for FB, how low can you go without losing too much revenue?

The answer to those two questions is where the price should be set. Unfortunately SU is not even asking those questions to find the answer to the problem.

 

[Consigliere]

Consider though that the perceived difference in value of A level basketball seats vs. C or D is much greater than the same difference in football and that compounds the challenge I think. I wouldn't think twice about downgrading my football seats to save some money but wouldn't dream of doing that for basketball. I sit in Row F in Section 319 for football as A level seats. I have a friend directly behind me about 20 rows and his seats aren't part of the preferred package at all. Too many inequities in the current model for football but the cardinal rule for any new plan MUST be that no one should be asked to pay more by getting rid of the two sport discount.

 

[Millhouse]

Too many inequities in the current model for football but the cardinal rule for any new plan MUST be that no one should be asked to pay more by getting rid of the two sport discount.

agree. no one pays more, some people pay less

 

[Trueblue25]

paid 225 for mine and am on the upper directly on the 50.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

Too many inequities in the current model for football but the cardinal rule for any new plan MUST be that no one should be asked to pay more by getting rid of the two sport discount.

Under the current price structure that would be a huge problem. No one wants to go from $45 to $650. However if the prices changed to:

A level $250
B level $200
C level $150
D level $100

How many people would say going from $45 to $250 is too much? If it is too much how far do you down grade? Do you go down to B? C? D? Non preferred?

How many people would upgrade? B level pays $30 so one can go to A level now for only $220 more, and so on.

How many people who don't have preferred will say hey I can afford $250 but no way I can afford the $650? The demand for the A level seats will go up by getting rid of the discount entirely.

The 2 sport discount price is a HUGE problem for football. It really needs to go away. At the very least there needs to be a less drastic discount. Only paying 7% of the FB price is a joke and isn't fair to FB only STHs. Why should a BBall person pay $605 less to sit next to a FB guy? So maybe move it to:

A level $250 with a discount to $175 for two sport people

That is 70% the football price and makes single game tickets $80 in the section. If the two sport folks give up their tickets because of a $130 price increase per year, then someone else will move into the section to replace them.

 

[UnknownOrange]

the doctor is in! you're probably cringing at my bad assumptions here

Haha just interesting to see people's takes/thoughts/assumptions. By far one of the hardest things to teach the new sales reps but I can explain it like its breathing at this point. I understand why it's done - just would like to see a change (which I believe will come.) Remember we're in a transition at the top.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

IMO single game tickets should be at

A level $99 currently $180 for NC State (who in the hell is paying that?)
B level $89 currently $125 (or that?)
C level $79 currently $90 (hell even that?)
D level $69 currently $70 (or that for that section?)
Sideline $59 currently $45 (those are really really cheap currently)
Corner $49 currently $45 (how are these the same as the sidelines currently?)
Endzone $39 currently $35
Upper Corner $29 currently $35
Upper Endzone $19 currently $25

With season tickets at

A level $225 (up $20 vs current) + $250 donation or $79.17 per game saving $19.83 vs single game tickets
B level $225 (up $20) + $200 donation or $70.83 per game saving $18.17
C level $225 (up $20) + $150 donation or $62.50 per game saving $16.50
D level $225 (up $20) + 100 donation or $54.17 per game saving $14.83
Sideline $225 (same as current) or $37.50 per game saving $21.50 per game
Corner $200 (saving $25) or $33.33 per game saving $15.67 per game
Endzone $175 (saving $30) or $29.17 per game saving $9.83 per game
Upper Corner $150 (up $25) or $25 per game saving $4 per game
Upper Endzone $99 (same as current) or $16.50 per game saving $2.50 per game

FB donations change

A level from $650 to $250 saving $400 vs current
B level from $425 to $200 saving $225
C level from $270 to $150 saving $120
D level from $190 to $100 saving $90

Two sport change

A level from $865 to $1007.50 ($142.50 increase vs current) or $187.50 for football
B level from $640 to $760 ($120 increase) or $150 for football
C level from $395 to $492.50 ($97.50 increase) or $112.50 for football
D level from $295 to $335 ($40 increase) or $75 for football
All would have a 25% discount vs the football only donation price



I think this would help attendance especially along the sidelines. It gives incentive to get season tickets vs getting individual game tickets. The individual games are actually affordable. SU would lose money in total revenue (assuming we get less than 40k in average attendance) but it would be worth it for the better home field advantage, recruiting, advertising sales, and fan morale.

 

[Jake]

Haha just interesting to see people's takes/thoughts/assumptions. By far one of the hardest things to teach the new sales reps but I can explain it like its breathing at this point. I understand why it's done - just would like to see a change (which I believe will come.) Remember we're in a transition at the top.

I'm sure its interesting from your perspective. And we are discussing things in a vacuum, without the political and PR factors that I'm sure come into play.

I think it's a healthy discussion, would love to get your perspective.

 

[UnknownOrange]

I'm sure its interesting from your perspective. And we are discussing things in a vacuum, without the political and PR factors that I'm sure come into play.

I think it's a healthy discussion, would love to get your perspective.

Without getting too much into detail - I believe you'll see a change. We dropped the 1st/2nd level endzone from $205 to $125 and had one of our most successful season ticket selling seasons in part to that. Look at the endzones for the first 3 games - very full. It's no surprise if you drop a section $80 in price.

To that point (hypothetically) if they reduced the D and C levels from $395 and $475 to $250 and $350 respectively - I bet you'd see a lot of the $225 people spending $25 more or $125 more to come sit around the 20-30 yardlines

 

[OttoMets]

maybe they recognize the problem but don't dare lower prices because they know they'll jack them up to pay for the renovations. taking lumps now to avoid bad press later. maybe they think the renovation is the hail mary that will save attendance. feels better to blame an old dome than bad pricing

This.

 

[Millhouse]

Without getting too much into detail - I believe you'll see a change. We dropped the 1st/2nd level endzone from $205 to $125 and had one of our most successful season ticket selling seasons in part to that. Look at the endzones for the first 3 games - very full. It's no surprise if you drop a section $80 in price.

To that point (hypothetically) if they reduced the D and C levels from $395 and $475 to $250 and $350 respectively - I bet you'd see a lot of the $225 people spending $25 more or $125 more to come sit around the 20-30 yardlines

i'm irrationally attached to our upperdecker seats but i'd make that upgrade just out of obligation.

end zone seats at the dome are too good - uniquely so

 

[upperdeck]

to get people out of the endzones you may have to devalue the seats and people are so price conscious now it may cause more issues. still they have access to people so why not actually ask questions instead of guessing

do people value the product, the location, the price, etc..

 

[Millhouse]

to get people out of the endzones you may have to devalue the seats and people are so price conscious now it may cause more issues. still that have access to people so why no actually ask questions instead of guessing

do people value the product, the location, the price, etc..

yes of course they need to devalue seats!