Ticky tack fouls and the future of hoops

[sutomcat]

As I just watched the end of the Creighton-San Diego State game, I’m curious to get people’s opinion…

My 15 year old son is a gigantic sports fan. He’ll watch just about anything. But in the past couple years he’s cut way back on his basketball watching. And when we watch together he’s constantly complaining about how soft the sport is, particularly fouls.

The constant touchy stuff that gets called makes the sport nearly unwatchable to him.

Now, he might very well be an outlier. But I’m curious to hear if anyone else’s kids feel the same way.

I’ve spilled a lot of virtual ink here about how I feel hoops is ridiculously over officiated. But I’m a grumpy middle aged man. I’ve been surprised to see a concurring opinion from my teenager.

What say you, Syracusefan?

Agree with young Scooch.

That last hand on the hip call on Creighton should not have been called. It was a physical game and many plays with more contact went uncalled.

And the decision to ignore that there was clearly time left on the clock was unacceptable. If you go to the replay, you have to accept what it shows. Not sometimes ignore it because it results in a tough call the refs apparently did not feel like making.

Be consistent. At least try to be consistent.

 

[hoopsupstate]

My biggest issue with college officiating is everything now is an offensive foul unless they are standing inside the arc. If you’re an actor, you can now be a good defensive player.

 

[hoopsupstate]

Agree with young Scooch.

That last hand on the hip call on Creighton should not have been called. It was a physical game and many plays with more contact went uncalled.

And the decision to ignore that there was clearly time left on the clock was unacceptable. If you go to the replay, you have to accept what it shows. Not sometimes ignore it because it results in a tough call the refs apparently did not feel like making.

Be consistent. At least try to be consistent.

I think the time being over was obsolete because the ball was off Creighton.

 

[Bayside44]

The arbitrary nature of calls and the constant scorers table stuff is a general turn off for my kids. And when they play it’s very much pick and choose what refs call.

My son just finished a lax game and maybe there were 6 penalties. Much crisper less arbitrary.

And that call sucked. There’s contact and feet shuffling all game long and a final four slot got decided on that? Absurd

 

[ar inj]

First, there are no “ACC officials. They are independent contractors, as are all college officials.

Second, college officiating is consistently inconsistent, not only game to game but within games. It sometimes make me want to stop watching.

Third, they need to call hand checking, etc so it will stop. We all know some teams play D by constantly fouling knowing everything will not be called, which sometimes feels like there is a bias against all the teams that only play zone

 

[Jake]

It was a foul. He was handchecking. They didn’t call that the rest of the game. The games have been officiated extremely inconsistently.

That’s my issue. Players get a feel for how the game is called, then the rule seemed to change on that last call.

 

[CU44SE]

It’s like this in every sport. You have certain teams that do not play within the rules. They do illegal stuff every single possession. The refs then do not want to insert themselves so they don’t call common fouls and then call only egregious stuff. Happens in football with DB’s and happens in college basketball. If the refs called fouls when there was a foul then it would really cut down on what teams do.

The problem is, they call it early in the season and then just stop. Just like the new flopping rule. Called it a ton at the beginning of the year and now call it less than they ever have. They highlight issues in the off-season that last 1 month and then it goes back to how the game was always officiated.

You can’t tell me watching the end of the game that was not a foul. Sucks the way the game ended, but if that is a syracuse offensive player everyone here goes crazy if it’s not called. If it’s a Syracuse defender everyone on here goes crazy if it is called


Bottom line, the defender put himself in a terrible position 40 feet out from the basket. Got beat initially and fouled the shooter to try and stop him from a wide open floater.

I have always been in the camp of a foul is a foul 5 mins into the game or 5 seconds left in the game. If you do something illegal to prevent someone from attempting a game winning shot, how is that fair to the offensive player that made a great (legal) play to get into scoring position?

 

[CU44SE]

That’s my issue. Players get a feel for how the game is called, then gif rule seemed to change on that last call.

Unfortunately I was not able to watch the entire game closely. But that is also frustrating. Calling the game one way the entire game and then changing it at the beginning. Be consistent.

Not to mention the official waited to call for a foul until the shot hit the rim and missed. They continued to show the replay and the official never blew/raised his arm in the process of the shot and even after the release to signal a foul. Took way to long to call.

 

[sufandu]

There's a difference between clutch and grab and a little bumping in the paint. The clutch and grab stuff needed to go but now they call it too close with contact in the paint. I also feel like I rarely see guys finish through contact like we used to, partly because nobody is used to any contact.

 

[tbonezone]

Unfortunately I was not able to watch the entire game closely. But that is also frustrating. Calling the game one way the entire game and then changing it at the beginning. Be consistent.

Not to mention the official waited to call for a foul until the shot hit the rim and missed. They continued to show the replay and the official never blew/raised his arm in the process of the shot and even after the release to signal a foul. Took way to long to call.

i would kind of think reverse. even if you call a game tight you have to loosen up the final two minutes.
don't let a bad call decide a close game . let the players finish it on the court.

 

[kingtidge]

As I just watched the end of the Creighton-San Diego State game, I’m curious to get people’s opinion…

My 15 year old son is a gigantic sports fan. He’ll watch just about anything. But in the past couple years he’s cut way back on his basketball watching. And when we watch together he’s constantly complaining about how soft the sport is, particularly fouls.

The constant touchy stuff that gets called makes the sport nearly unwatchable to him.

Now, he might very well be an outlier. But I’m curious to hear if anyone else’s kids feel the same way.

I’ve spilled a lot of virtual ink here about how I feel hoops is ridiculously over officiated. But I’m a grumpy middle aged man. I’ve been surprised to see a concurring opinion from my teenager.

What say you, Syracusefan?

Rock Pitino and Jamie Dixon agree.

 

[Melancer46]

The constant flopping, moving screens, reviews, and whining to officials is way more annoying to me than ticky tack fouls.

But re: the kids opinions, I’ve seen some studies basically saying most kids that age don’t like any sports anymore, basketball or otherwise. And professional leagues are privately panicking that they won’t have fans left in a couple decades.

 

[Willy75]

I thought it was clearly a foul under the rules as interpreted today. The SDSU player had turned the corner on the defender who reached out, grabbed his hip and seemed to rotate his body. More than a hand check.

 

[djcon57]

The nba has a huge younger demographic so I get the anecdotal stuff but by all measures, pro basketball is still firmly in 2nd place.

College bball clearly is losing steam though

 

[cusefan88]

I think the quality of referring is inconsistent and IIRC refs are contractors right? Every league calls the game a bit differently. That to me is a red flag.

 

[cusefan88]

My biggest issue with college officiating is everything now is an offensive foul unless they are standing inside the arc. If you’re an actor, you can now be a good defensive player.

It should be a blocking foul 85-90% of the time. If your idea of defense is to hope to get hit and run over that's not defense. Move your feet and keep your hands straight up.

 

[tbonezone]

It should be a blocking foul 85-90% of the time. If your idea of defense is to hope to get hit and run over that's not defense. Move your feet and keep your hands straight up.

disagree .wes unseld says hello. bring it inside at yer own peril. expect to take a hit was the way we played.

 

[Cusefan95]

The constant flopping, moving screens, reviews, and whining to officials is way more annoying to me than ticky tack fouls.

But re: the kids opinions, I’ve seen some studies basically saying most kids that age don’t like any sports anymore, basketball or otherwise. And professional leagues are privately panicking that they won’t have fans left in a couple decades.

This is totally anecdotal, so I have no idea if studies are showing the same - but one thing that is weird is my kids play sports but don’t have any interest in watching any level of those same sports. It used to be that getting kids interested in watching sports started with getting them to play - I wonder if that model is now broken and not working.

If it is, there’s really no viable cost effective strategy for leagues to create new sports fans. Shifting more weekend games to earlier start times might help - but that gets dictated by Tv and they’d need to sacrifice revenue today in an effort to build new fans.

 

[CuseCPT]

First, there are no “ACC officials. They are independent contractors, as are all college officials.

People love to trot that out, but in practice, there are certain officials that get a lot more work from certain conferences than others. And even within conferences, certain officials see certain teams more often than others. The dude who called 3 fouls against us in the UNC game refereed ALOT of UNC games this year.

 

[OmahaCuse]

Defender got beat should have let him take the shot without fouling. That foul would have been called 100% of the time now people don't want it called because it’s the end of the game. I was rooting for CU but objectivly that was a foul and CU had plenty of chances to win got plenty of calls during game and went 2/17 from 3…

 

[HRE Otto IV]

If you every seen a Euro game it flows so much better. There is too much dead time in the US game, both NCAA and NBA. A Euro 40 min game is over 15+ mins earlier than a college game despite having Qs.

Ticky tack fouls, inconsistent foul calls, anticipating calls all hurt the game. At the same time physicality slows down play. So you need a healthy balance.

 

[orangefog]

I don't understand how college officials have so much discretion over what is a foul and what is not a foul. I wish they would just call the fouls as they are in the rulebook. Leave it to the players to adjust to rules and play by them. When they stray from the rules chaos ensues. A foul is a foul, a travel is a travel...just call it ALL FREAKING GAME LONG.

 

[SBU72]

First, there are no “ACC officials. They are independent contractors, as are all college officials.

Second, college officiating is consistently inconsistent, not only game to game but within games. It sometimes make me want to stop watching.

Third, they need to call hand checking, etc so it will stop. We all know some teams play D by constantly fouling knowing everything will not be called, which sometimes feels like there is a bias against all the teams that only play zone

It is extremely difficult if not impossible to have literally 100's of officials see any one play exactly the same. (Think about it on weekend during the season there could be like 180 games each requiring 3 in game officials.) Depending on the sight line on any one play, officials may see thing differently. And each call it differently depending on how exactly they see it. Move the official who made that call 3 ft one way or another he may have thought there was no contact at all or it didn't influence the shooter. All that said, short of a hack or a push, maybe they should have let the game go to overtime.

 

[orangefog]

It is extremely difficult if not impossible to have literally 100's of officials see any one play exactly the same. (Think about it on weekend during the season there could be like 180 games each requiring 3 in game officials.) Depending on the sight line on any one play, officials may see thing differently. And each call it differently depending on how exactly they see it. Move the official who made that call 3 ft one way or another he may have thought there was no contact at all or it didn't influence the shooter. All that said, short of a hack or a push, maybe they should have let the game go to overtime.

I think we have to demand better of our officials. They should be evaluated and those that are found lacking should be replaced. I believe the job pays well. It should never be a problem to find really good officials.

 

[OmahaCuse]

It is extremely difficult if not impossible to have literally 100's of officials see any one play exactly the same. (Think about it on weekend during the season there could be like 180 games each requiring 3 in game officials.) Depending on the sight line on any one play, officials may see thing differently. And each call it differently depending on how exactly they see it. Move the official who made that call 3 ft one way or another he may have thought there was no contact at all or it didn't influence the shooter. All that said, short of a hack or a push, maybe they should have let the game go to overtime.

He did push thats why they called the foul.