Time for a complete cleanse

[kingtidge]

They won’t care if we are a top 15 team again.

You can tell that to DC then!

 

[Yukon]

Promoting from within will only work if you have the players on your roster to immediately win for whomever gets elevated. Unless you are Duke or Kentucky a new coach isn’t going to instantly take in amazing talent. It took two years and a national championship for Ollie to start recruiting at a high level and then he stopped caring. It’s bizarre to think that an assistant with no experience will have better success with this roster than a HOF coach. Can he weather two seasons of under .500 ball after following a legend? I would bet not.

Also, you know how you placate the former players? You offer GMAC associate head coach and bring in another alum for DBOp. We have one former player on our staff and the alumni damage of the Ollie debacle has been pretty much healed. Former players will get over one of their pals getting passed over pretty easily. It’s much messier if they get fired.

Finally, as a fan of a team that competes for supremacy in the same region and for many of the same recruits I’d LOVE to see someone with no experience elevated to one of the premier jobs (no sarcasm) in the nation. I’d HATE to have someone like Nate Oats in our backyard.

 

[FRANKIEFAN]

Yeah the ACC would do backflips if we hired someone on the staff.

The ACC is the best conference and a top job in it is hard to turn down. Look at Lousiville they hired their coach away from his Alma Mater that was in the Big East. That is the kind of pull we should have. Of course bare cupboard and JB not wanting to step down doesn't make it that easy. I'd try and get something lined up this March and if the homerun candidates say no ask JB and Buddy to run it back.

 

[Zelda Zonk]

Who is coming in for 2.5 million who is better than JAB? Honest question.

Better than which JAB? The one who led the Big East or the one that has us as the #89 team in the country right now? I, consistently surprised at how many people are so afraid of the next coach, when the standard has been lowered year after year and change is relatively immediately inevitable.

Secondly, “2.5 million” isn’t a law, is it?

 

[UD1954]

Do you really think Syracuse would pay what it would take to get Oats ...Private school money vs SEC school money...ain't happening. When l look at recruit interviews I see Mac's name mentioned more and more as the lead recruiter. The longer Boehiem hangs around the more seasoned Mac will be to take over...Autry should get it if they hire from within but I don't think so anymore...jmho

 

[jncuse]

I think the only way a "Complete Cleanse" of the program happens is if you hire a coach from outside of the program. Not saying we must hire from the outside either. Just that this thread title is a misnomer in my view.

As an FYI I believe we should look outside for candidates, but also consider inside.

 

[kingtidge]

Do you really think Syracuse would pay what it would take to get Oats ...Private school money vs SEC school money...ain't happening. When l look at recruit interviews I see Mac's name mentioned more and more as the lead recruiter. The longer Boehiem hangs around the more seasoned Mac will be to take over...Autry should get it if they hire from within but I don't think so anymore...jmho

Do you think JB will he "Dean Smith" it and expect to handpick any sucessor and make them kiss the ring and show fealty pull the strings part time in the background?

I really hope it's a clean break and we can do an independent search, but approaching 50 years in charge at Syracuse means he's got a lot power where it counts with big money boosters/power brokers, etc...If he wants to be Earl of the program, he can be.

 

[RoatanCuse]

What’s the risk with Oates?

They won’t care if we are a top 15 team again.

i fear that will be a long time coming. My gut says so….and my gut is never wrong.

 

[bozophobe]

Do you really think Syracuse would pay what it would take to get Oats ...Private school money vs SEC school money...ain't happening. When l look at recruit interviews I see Mac's name mentioned more and more as the lead recruiter. The longer Boehiem hangs around the more seasoned Mac will be to take over...Autry should get it if they hire from within but I don't think so anymore...jmho

I don't get your take on this. We know that a program's performance over several years can mean a difference of tens or even hundreds of millions of dollars. Does S.U. really care about saving a million here or there on coaching salaries (not that they don't or shouldn't at all), when larger numbers are at stake? Why would they observe such rigid standards of fiscal conservatism with something as important as coaching, when we finally got some orange butt pillows, updated video screen technology, air conditioning, continued tournament commitments, etc.?

 

[phil77]

Every year Oats doesn’t get an offer makes his likelihood of accepting an offer less likely the next year. Alabama is a gold mine of resources and has woken up to the fact that “ hey we can drive the basketball bus too. like Baylor” we are finally seeing the war of attrition results that started 2 decades ago when conference musical chairs started. The SEC ( and actually all the big southern football powers from a couple conferences) with their huge TV contracts and athletic commitments and culture are going to be big factors in the CBB landscape going forward. The SEC isn’t just Kentucky and Florida in hoops anymore. Auburn and Bama have turned into major players. More and more over the next decade you will see more cash rich football schools rise in hoops. Oats will have a tough decision, because I hate to say it Alabama will shortly end up being a better job than Syracuse.

Syracuse Basketball job will always be better than the Alabama basketball job

 

[Killdozer]

SU needs a national coach not some bench coach who hasn't proved anything! The biggest issue is that SU plays NO man to man defense. Coach K got the 2-3 zone from JB when they were coaching team USA. He uses it but not as his base. Coach K knows how to mix up the D where JB is stuck in the past. He will never and has never changed which is why he only had 1 championship even though he has had a lot of talented teams.

 

[ForCuseSake]

 

[jncuse]

Syracuse Basketball job will always be better than the Alabama basketball job

Do you think so? I think it can be looked at it multiple ways, that certainly will lead some coaches (not all) to think differently.

Money
Alabama has been able to recruit fairly well.
Lower Expectations Job, so you have time to set up things your way.

Syracuse is more prestigious and you may become more of an icon in the local area if you win.. That is certainly a + to Syracuse. But with that comes tougher expectations And conceivably you are able to meet "win" goals just as easily at Alabama given their resources and recent recruiting.

I remember having a similar discussion on Texas vs Syracuse some way back. Lower expectations for a coach at Texas, but there is still almost an equal ability to win there, plus you might have more time at Texas.

 

[phil77]

Do you think so? I think it can be looked at it multiple ways, that certainly will lead some coaches (not all) to think differently.

Money
Alabama has been able to recruit fairly well.
Lower Expectations Job, so you have time to set up things your way.

Syracuse is more prestigious and you may become more of an icon in the local area if you win.. That is certainly a + to Syracuse. But with that comes tougher expectations And conceivably you are able to meet "win" goals just as easily at Alabama given their resources and recent recruiting.

I remember having a similar discussion on Texas vs Syracuse some way back. Lower expectations for a coach at Texas, but there is still almost an equal ability to win there, plus you might have more time at Texas.

Your confusing Alabama with Oats. All the recruiting is from Oats not Alabama. Alabama was trash before Oats and will be trash when he leaves.

 

[Cuse#1]

Yeah that will solve everything, promote from within. We will magically have the horses lining up to come here.

yea because thats never been done & never worked before right. What are you talkin about

 

[Cuse#1]

Who is coming in for 2.5 million who is better than JAB? Honest question.

He isn’t exactly personable, nor has a superb recruiting record. Hop easily over GMAC if we are going with a cuse guy.

There are really some dumb things said on here.
1) who the hell said that 2.5 mill. is the max we'll pay for new coach!
2)Do you know GMAC personally? Highly doubt it & ive looked up enough guys that were highly recruited that gerry is responsible for idk where thast BS comes from.
3)Hop has not been lighting the world on fire lately but even him i would take over boeheim at this point. Ive said it 100 times with no hesitation that boeheims ego & arrogance are killing this program. IMO any logical normal thinking person could see that!

 

[jncuse]

Your confusing Alabama with Oats. All the recruiting is from Oats not Alabama. Alabama was trash before Oats and will be trash when he leaves.

Alabama has been historically got some fairly good recruits under Gottfried, Johnson, Grant.

Alabama All Time Basketball Recruits

Alabama

247sports.com

Since 2000, Alabama has had 36 top 100 recruits. 17 of them were top 50. Certainly Oats has taken the recruiting up a very strong notch, but it was not barren recruiting ground or a school that could not recruit at all, despite limited success on the floor. They just tended to consistently underachieve.

As a comparison Syracuse has had 39 top 100, and 23 top 50. It's a bit easier to recruit when you program has performed better which was certainly the case between 2000-2015.

But its not as big a disparity as one would expect.

----------
My further point would be that Oats has had success Alabama, been able to take a program that recruits fairly well and turn it up a notch, and gets paid well. He has taken the resources it offers and made it a very good job for him. Not sure why he wants to leave -- what are the benefits for him?

A different scenario would be if a coach at Top Mid Major or lower tier P5 school is looking at choosing between say Syracuse (2022) and Alabama (as it stood in2019). They would strongly lean to Syracuse prestige, but things like money / fairly good recruiting history / ability to win at the location would be considered. But that is a very different scenario then Oats choosing to leave a place he has had success at already.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

yea because thats never been done & never worked before right. What are you talkin about

Are you serious? We can't recruit with this current staff so JB retiring will make recruiting get better? We can't coach up this team. That will get better without JB?

It has been done before but in each case it was trying to keep the current state of the program. We need to IMPROVE the program because the current state stinks. And in most of those cases it has FAILED.

So what are you talking about?

 

[l'orange]

I don't think you know what complete cleanse means? To me, it doesn't mean moving an assistant coach up, it would mean gutting the program. The program is bad and the trend is more and more towards mediocrity. It IS time for some sort of change.

 

[l'orange]

I think the only way a "Complete Cleanse" of the program happens is if you hire a coach from outside of the program. Not saying we must hire from the outside either. Just that this thread title is a misnomer in my view.

As an FYI I believe we should look outside for candidates, but also consider inside.

I like that we promote from within and we have former players on the coaching staff but I don't think that has to extend to a head coach. Just one or two former players is fine. I do almost think Hopkins represents something between an internal and external candidate so I still find myself rooting for him.

I like the brand of basketball that Syracuse USED TO have, I like the 2/3 zone (although some man-to-man would be good for variety) but I'd like to see us push in transition and score that way again instead of pretending to have a half-court offense that just chucks threes. That has been our crutch and I think everyone is tired of hearing Coach Boeheim say, "we've gotta make shots."

 

[Cuse#1]

Are you serious? We can't recruit with this current staff so JB retiring will make recruiting get better? We can't coach up this team. That will get better without JB?

It has been done before but in each case it was trying to keep the current state of the program. We need to IMPROVE the program because the current state stinks. And in most of those cases it has FAILED.

So what are you talking about?

am i serious? lol
last time i checked genius the class was ranked fairly high with us underacheiving for awhile now.
Why dont u give me some examples because im not gonna take your word for it because guys like you think JB is our only option and if he's gone the sky is falling for this program which is stupid because its already starting to happen!
Maybe you should read a lil of what i say because im not saying it has to be GMAC! Thats the ADs job but i would take him over boeheim!!!!

This program has become extremely bland & boring! Needs to be reinvigorated!
But again to answer what you were saying, IDC if we hire internally or not, as long as its not boeheim. His time has passed & if we continue on this projectory than we will have to hire internally because our programs prestige wont be worth u know what

 

[HRE Otto IV]

am i serious? lol
last time i checked genius the class was ranked fairly high with us underacheiving for awhile now.
Why dont u give me some examples because im not gonna take your word for it because guys like you think JB is our only option and if he's gone the sky is falling for this program which is stupid because its already starting to happen!
Maybe you should read a lil of what i say because im not saying it has to be GMAC! Thats the ADs job but i would take him over boeheim!!!!

This program has become extremely bland & boring! Needs to be reinvigorated!
But again to answer what you were saying, IDC if we hire internally or not, as long as its not boeheim. His time has passed & if we continue on this projectory than we will have to hire internally because our programs prestige wont be worth u know what

You are making a lot of assumptions all of which are wrong. Good job.

You are actually furthering my point. JB needs to go because the program is not doing well. Part of that issue is the ENTIRE staff. We aren’t going to magically become better by hiring within.

Name me one successful continuency hire in the last 25 years. Good luck in finding one.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

You are making a lot of assumptions all of which are wrong. Good job.

You are actually furthering my point. JB needs to go because the program is not doing well. Part of that issue is the ENTIRE staff. We aren’t going to magically become better by hiring within.

Name me one successful continuency hire in the last 25 years. Good luck in finding one.

Mark Few.

 

[CousCuse]

Only 2 starters returned to this years team. Of course the early season is going to be difficult. They are playing hard and not getting run off the court and will be much improved going into league play. Next year will have 6 guys returning and a very solid recruiting class coming in. Pump the brakes on the tear it down frenzy.

 

[Cuse1055]

Mark Few.

Also Matt Painter at Purdue. Will be real interesting to see how promoting from within works at Duke and UNC in the next few years.