Time for a complete cleanse

[sufandu]

Is promoting GMac a complete cleanse?

I've never been a coach, but I've always been under the impression that coaches are heavily influenced, at least early in their career, by coaches they have played for and coached under. Has GMac really been exposed to much variety with regards to coaching philosophy and styles? Maybe he'd be great, but, if a complete cleanse is what is being proposed, does he fit the bill?

 

[HRE Otto IV]

Also Matt Painter at Purdue. Will be real interesting to see how promoting from within works at Duke and UNC in the next few years.

Matt Painter was brought in from the outside as HCIW for 1 season to take over. That is not a continuity hire.

Few was hired 23 years ago so he fits.

 

[HakAttack]

I don’t want to hate Gerry McNamara. I’d prefer to hold onto the memories of the National Title game and his legendary run in the BET. I have zero interest in seeing him as the next HC.

 

[jdubs30]

It’s gonna be like Matt Langel lol

 

[NKR1978]

Promoting from within will only work if you have the players on your roster to immediately win for whomever gets elevated. Unless you are Duke or Kentucky a new coach isn’t going to instantly take in amazing talent. It took two years and a national championship for Ollie to start recruiting at a high level and then he stopped caring. It’s bizarre to think that an assistant with no experience will have better success with this roster than a HOF coach. Can he weather two seasons of under .500 ball after following a legend? I would bet not.

Also, you know how you placate the former players? You offer GMAC associate head coach and bring in another alum for DBOp. We have one former player on our staff and the alumni damage of the Ollie debacle has been pretty much healed. Former players will get over one of their pals getting passed over pretty easily. It’s much messier if they get fired.

Finally, as a fan of a team that competes for supremacy in the same region and for many of the same recruits I’d LOVE to see someone with no experience elevated to one of the premier jobs (no sarcasm) in the nation. I’d HATE to have someone like Nate Oats in our backyard.

I've always assumed the basketball alumni will get in line when the team starts losing. Once the wheels came off under Ollie it seemed your alumni just wanted UConn to be UConn again.

 

[jdubs30]

Promoting from within will only work if you have the players on your roster to immediately win for whomever gets elevated. Unless you are Duke or Kentucky a new coach isn’t going to instantly take in amazing talent. It took two years and a national championship for Ollie to start recruiting at a high level and then he stopped caring. It’s bizarre to think that an assistant with no experience will have better success with this roster than a HOF coach. Can he weather two seasons of under .500 ball after following a legend? I would bet not.

Also, you know how you placate the former players? You offer GMAC associate head coach and bring in another alum for DBOp. We have one former player on our staff and the alumni damage of the Ollie debacle has been pretty much healed. Former players will get over one of their pals getting passed over pretty easily. It’s much messier if they get fired.

Finally, as a fan of a team that competes for supremacy in the same region and for many of the same recruits I’d LOVE to see someone with no experience elevated to one of the premier jobs (no sarcasm) in the nation. I’d HATE to have someone like Nate Oats in our backyard.

The interesting thing about Ollie was that it ended so ugly and some prominent UConn players came out to defend KO. Cuse is such a family since all the players have played for the same coach. I’d hate to see a splinter of the relationship between former players/SU if we go outside

 

[NKR1978]

The interesting thing about Ollie was that it ended so ugly and some prominent UConn players came out to defend KO. Cuse is such a family since all the players have played for the same coach. I’d hate to see a splinter of the relationship between former players/SU if we go outside

It's almost a hostage situation.

SU can appease the alumni, which is very important, and possibly throw away tens of millions of dollars in revenue due to declining ticket/concession sales. Or it can temporarily fracture the relationship with some alumni and use those millions of dollars to pay a Nate Oats type.

 

[Yukon]

The interesting thing about Ollie was that it ended so ugly and some prominent UConn players came out to defend KO. Cuse is such a family since all the players have played for the same coach. I’d hate to see a splinter of the relationship between former players/SU if we go outside

I had the same worry as you regarding what the players might think if UConn didn’t stay in house. The parallels between UConn 2015 and SU 202? are remarkably similar. Both have legendary coaches who are the program and have coach all visible alumni. The main differences are that the talent level Calhoun left allowed Ollie to weather early growing pains and in his second year win a NC. And he had George Blaney, Karl Hobbs and Glen Miller on the bench who had a combined 700+ wins as head coaches. I don’t think SU has that right now and I would feel for whoever got promoted.

I also wouldn’t equate the anger of your alumni if peer gets passed over with when they get fired for losing. Those are two very different beasts and the latter will be much worse. Just find whoever can win.

 

[CousCuse]

If Hop had stayed, he would have been the next coach. If he is interested, he should still get a shot.

 

[Yukon]

I've always assumed the basketball alumni will get in line when the team starts losing. Once the wheels came off under Ollie it seemed your alumni just wanted UConn to be UConn again.

Yeah winning is everything. The main alumni relations issue with the Ollie debacle was how he was fired. Specifically them using legitimate NCAA violations, albeit it ones that would have been overlooked had he been winning, to not pay him. They just wanted him to get his $10 million buyout. Not one alumni voiced their approval of his job performance. Once Hurley came in and the record improved, all complaining subsided. As long as the next coach wins and engages with former alumni you should be fine.

 

[Cuse1055]

I must say it’s oddly refreshing to have a civil conversation with a UConn fan on here. It’s like cats and dogs (or Oranges and Huskies) living together almost peacefully.

 

[Cuse#1]

You are making a lot of assumptions all of which are wrong. Good job.

You are actually furthering my point. JB needs to go because the program is not doing well. Part of that issue is the ENTIRE staff. We aren’t going to magically become better by hiring within.

Name me one successful continuency hire in the last 25 years. Good luck in finding one

You are making a lot of assumptions all of which are wrong. Good job.

You are actually furthering my point. JB needs to go because the program is not doing well. Part of that issue is the ENTIRE staff. We aren’t going to magically become better by hiring within.

Name me one successful continuency hire in the last 25 years. Good luck in finding one.

Ill say it again! IDC if they hire within buy if a change isnt made soon then that may be our best option considering our lack of prestige if this trend continues!
I dont see how anything will change this season considering boehiem's lack of change whatsoever!

Again so there is no confusion, i want the best replacement, period!!! Im questioning my lack of faith in the AD or his bosses most definately so thats probaly why an internal hire keeps coming up because of the su athletics lack of commitment.

Hopefully there's an awakaning close to what the hurricanes are doing! Gosh i hope so!

 

[Madbiker]

Sometimes promoting from within works, and sometimes it doesn't.
100% SU will go in house when JB steps down. JB will time it so it has to be an in house succession.
But any in house guy usually only gets 2 seasons. If he has 2 poor seasons he'll get fired and then they go outside.
I would love to see the new HC, in house or not, change the style of play from 100% zone. Play pressure D and up tempo. (Like Oats would do). But with Red and GMac that likely won't happen. The key to winning in college ball is recruiting. I doubt elevating in any of our guys changes recruiting in a major positive way. The HC has to have energy and be a top notch salesman. Neither of our guys strikes me as that. Though at this stage both would probably bring more energy than current situation.

 

[Cuse1055]

Sometimes promoting from within works, and sometimes it doesn't.
100% SU will go in house when JB steps down. JB will time it so it has to be an in house succession.
But any in house guy usually only gets 2 seasons. If he has 2 poor seasons he'll get fired and then they go outside.
I would love to see the new HC, in house or not, change the style of play from 100% zone. Play pressure D and up tempo. (Like Oats would do). But with Red and GMac that likely won't happen. The key to winning in college ball is recruiting. I doubt elevating in any of our guys changes recruiting in a major positive way. The HC has to have energy and be a top notch salesman. Neither of our guys strikes me as that. Though at this stage both would probably bring more energy than current situation.

In terms of recruiting a lot would depend on which assistant(s) they have/bring in. If they bring in a Weav or Murphy type recruiter, then the talent will follow.

 

[OrlandoCuse]

Sometimes promoting from within works, and sometimes it doesn't.
100% SU will go in house when JB steps down. JB will time it so it has to be an in house succession.
But any in house guy usually only gets 2 seasons. If he has 2 poor seasons he'll get fired and then they go outside.
I would love to see the new HC, in house or not, change the style of play from 100% zone. Play pressure D and up tempo. (Like Oats would do). But with Red and GMac that likely won't happen. The key to winning in college ball is recruiting. I doubt elevating in any of our guys changes recruiting in a major positive way. The HC has to have energy and be a top notch salesman. Neither of our guys strikes me as that. Though at this stage both would probably bring more energy than current situation.

^^This is how it will play out. We all know Syracuse isn't diverging from the Boeheim brand of basketball as soon as he retires. They keys will be handed over to Autry or GMac.

My guess is it's Autry. He's more tenured, older. There's probably other factors at play that would tilt in favor of Red. I'm just hoping he is willing to break the mold that JB built. I could get behind Red as the next coach if he hires a dynamic recruiter and kills the zone (or at least implements some pressure man defense 50% of the time).

Regardless, I'll support the next coach and will be excited to see what they do with the program.

 

[RF2044]

^^This is how it will play out. We all know Syracuse isn't diverging from the Boeheim brand of basketball as soon as he retires. They keys will be handed over to Autry or GMac.

My guess is it's Autry. He's more tenured, older. There's probably other factors at play that would tilt in favor of Red. I'm just hoping he is willing to break the mold that JB built. I could get behind Red as the next coach if he hires a dynamic recruiter and kills the zone (or at least implements some pressure man defense 50% of the time).

Regardless, I'll support the next coach and will be excited to see what they do with the program.

No way.

The only way that happens is if JB over the University, a la Dean Smith, and "retires" right before a season unexpectedly when it is too late for the school to conduct a search.

And if it does happen, that person being elevated will only be temporary. Because they won't kill it, they'll struggle, and the school will move on.

The next hire will come from outside otherwise.

 

[CousCuse]

I must say it’s oddly refreshing to have a civil conversation with a UConn fan on here. It’s like cats and dogs (or Oranges and Huskies) living together almost peacefully.

Yes, there is a disturbance in the force. I'm getting UCONN to the ACC.

 

[CousCuse]

Sometimes promoting from within works, and sometimes it doesn't.
100% SU will go in house when JB steps down. JB will time it so it has to be an in house succession.
But any in house guy usually only gets 2 seasons. If he has 2 poor seasons he'll get fired and then they go outside.
I would love to see the new HC, in house or not, change the style of play from 100% zone. Play pressure D and up tempo. (Like Oats would do). But with Red and GMac that likely won't happen. The key to winning in college ball is recruiting. I doubt elevating in any of our guys changes recruiting in a major positive way. The HC has to have energy and be a top notch salesman. Neither of our guys strikes me as that. Though at this stage both would probably bring more energy than current situation.

This is probably close to the true outcome. If this is the case, why not go with Hop. His problems at UW are more of a result of recruiting problems, not coaching. he will hit the job hard knowing that he has a small window to make a go of it and he would also know this would be his last chance at a major coaching position. He has already gotten past the phase of being a first time HC, so he should have a good chance to take the ball and score with it.

 

[OrangeDW]

Former players all want an SU guy. They don’t want to lose the tradition. Say what you want, but it matters.

I have done a 180 here.

Pitino.

Jim hired him before. Pass the torch to him for a few years to build this thing back up, then he retires and we go get the best coach in the country that’s not at UNC, Duke, Kansas, Kentucky, or Arizona.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

Sometimes promoting from within works, and sometimes it doesn't.
100% SU will go in house when JB steps down. JB will time it so it has to be an in house succession.
But any in house guy usually only gets 2 seasons. If he has 2 poor seasons he'll get fired and then they go outside.
I would love to see the new HC, in house or not, change the style of play from 100% zone. Play pressure D and up tempo. (Like Oats would do). But with Red and GMac that likely won't happen. The key to winning in college ball is recruiting. I doubt elevating in any of our guys changes recruiting in a major positive way. The HC has to have energy and be a top notch salesman. Neither of our guys strikes me as that. Though at this stage both would probably bring more energy than current situation.

It doesn't happen often. Duke and UNC are doing it now and IMO both will fail. But they are bigger programs and are still at the top, so it will be easy to recover. UConn, Indiana, UNC, Oklahoma State all did it and it failed. Kansas, Illinois, Arizona, Cincy, Temple, Kentucky, Louisville all didn't do it and it worked out. Michigan State and Gonzaga did it and it worked. Oklahoma, UNLV, Mizzou didn't and it failed. Michigan, Louisville didn't do it and it is TBD but off to a good start. Wisconsin did it and it is TBD but not looking good. Maryland didn't do it but where do we put this? Failed because he was fired? Or worked out because the record was fine? Can you call getting fired a success? Can you call getting fired in year 11 a failure?

Inside Job
2-4-3

Outside
7-3-2 plus Turgeon who avg'd 10.5-7.9 in conference and 22-11 overall.

The outside hires have done better.

EDIT

And how can I forget Georgetown to the list of failures? Which brings that to 2-5 with 3 TBD. Also can we really count Few as they aren't a P5 school? They did not have the mean$ to go out and get a decent HC when he was hired. The HC before him left to go to Minnesota which would never happen now. So really in the last 40 seasons Izzo is the only one who worked out from a major program.

EDIT II

And we can also add St Johns to that list of failures (2-6 now). Shouldn't we learn from the failures of our rivals (GTown, UConn, St Johns)?

EDIT III
Need to add Nova too. This though is a lot like MD. It wasn't a complete failure but it wasn't really a success. Lappas improved the team vs the end of Rollie's tenure. But it wasn't enough and he was fired after 9 seasons.

 

[721Comstock]

Complete cleanse?

Might I suggest…

 

[IthacaBarrel]

Also Matt Painter at Purdue. Will be real interesting to see how promoting from within works at Duke and UNC in the next few years.

There has been a few for sure.

 

[orange79]

I must say it’s oddly refreshing to have a civil conversation with a UConn fan on here. It’s like cats and dogs (or Oranges and Huskies) living together almost peacefully.

Oh, it can happen.

Just not very often.

 

[Cuse181]

Do you really think Syracuse would pay what it would take to get Oats ...Private school money vs SEC school money...ain't happening. When l look at recruit interviews I see Mac's name mentioned more and more as the lead recruiter. The longer Boehiem hangs around the more seasoned Mac will be to take over...Autry should get it if they hire from within but I don't think so anymore...jmho

Basketball is a different animal man. Syracuse (and fans) actually cares about basketball it’s superbly profitable even in the down years.

 

[PhatOrange]

time for new blood.