Time for a complete cleanse

[CousCuse]

Alabama got crushed by Memphis last night. Where are all the Nate Oats fans today?

 

[Eric15]

Alabama got crushed by Memphis last night. Where are all the Nate Oats fans today?

I watched for about five minutes but that ridiculous blue Memphis court almost gave me a seizure.

 

[HOFCeluck]

Alabama got crushed by Memphis last night. Where are all the Nate Oats fans today?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Not gonna suck me in. You were close though. REEEEEEEALLLLLLL CLOSE!

 

[CousCuse]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Not gonna suck me in. You were close though. REEEEEEEALLLLLLL CLOSE!

Alabama is as far away from being a real power team as Oregon is. Nate Oates, MEH.

 

[Bayside44]

What everyone should want is for the next head coach to be the one most capable of not flopping.

And the best way to avoid that is to hire the most qualified candidate, period -- instead of artificially constraining our candidate pool on BS criteria.

It's not a fait accompli that the guy replacing THE GUY has to flop.

It's just my 2 cents, like saying who I think will win an election, not who I want to win.

 

[RF2044]

It's just my 2 cents, like saying who I think will win an election, not who I want to win.

I get it -- like I said above, I'm not criticizing people saying what they expect to happen, only those rationalizing that hiring an unqualified candidate is the best path forward.

 

[Deleted member 8116]

Alabama got crushed by Memphis last night. Where are all the Nate Oats fans today?

That’s a bit of an overreaction for one game, no?

 

[CousCuse]

That’s a bit of an overreaction for one game, no?

They weren't really in the game. It's easier to be an underdog and steal a big win than to be the top dog and have to stop it. That was a huge recruiting game for him as he goes after the same players that Penny does.

 

[RF2044]

For the longest time i was very much against Gmac. Felt he was mediocre at best and undeserving of being an assistant coach.

Today i truly believe he is the right guy to take over for Jim.

If that doesn't unintentionally epitomize how unqualified a candidate he would be, I'm not sure what to say.

For the longest time i was very much against Gmac. Felt he was mediocre at best and undeserving of being an assistant coach.

Today i truly believe he is the right guy to take over for Jim.
Here are a few reasons.

1: He bleeds Orange. He lives and dies for Syracuse and i believe that is so important. He understands the Culture of not only SU but as importantly the area. SU is unique. Yes its a storied Basketball school but the area is unique and Gmac loves it.

2: He can recruit and will recruit better when hes in Charge. I actually think that Jim loses as many if not more kids than not based on his age and personality. Hes definitely not for everyone and he doesn't seem to connect with todays players.

3: Gmac is driven and as tough a competitor as we have ever had

4: Hes a Guard and you cant win Basketball games without great Guard play. Id bet anything he was disappointed when Kadary left and if he was head coach im sure hed still be on the team.

5: Hiring the guy to follow a HOF coach is a total crap shoot. Giving Gmac the shot and keeping it in house is the right move. If he fails you move on.

Why blow up 60 years of success. By a cleanse i meant moving on from Jim as a coach. Not what hes built.

As for the rest of that rationalized post, it reads like a mad lib. I could substitute Mike Hopkins in for GMac, and that message could have been written 5 years ago, with all of the same wrong evaluative criteria prioritized for why Hop would make a great hire:

...He bleeds orange...

...He lives and dies for Syracuse...

...The area is unique and he loves it...

...He can recruit and will recruit better when hes in charge...


Good grief.

Here's some perspective. Mike Hopkins -- an exponentially more qualified candidate who satisified all of the above "nice to have" criteria, but who similarly had no head coaching experience -- flopped when he left the nest and took over a P5 program.

That should be an object lesson for our fanbase about the dangers of promoting a completely unproven candidate to lead a high major program, on the lone basis of them having historical ties to our program.

But as your post indicates, this lesson hasn't sunk in.

The other thing I have difficulty wrapping my head around is how a significant portion of the fanbase's expectations have been set so low. For 30 years, we were a perennial top 25 program. 10 years ago, we earned two #1 seeds in a three-year span. Now we want to make a continuity hire when we're losing double digit games every year, are a national punchline for always being "Bubblecuse," and recruiting has dipped?

Makes no sense. We're in the ACC. We have the biggest arena in college basketball. We are top 5 in all-time wins. We should aim higher than giving a guy a shot for a couple of years to see if he doesn't fail. We should bring in someone with a proven track record, who can best utilize those advantages to get our program back to where it needs to be, and fast.

We don't need to settle for a candidate who doesn't have a proven track record as a head coach -- there's absolutely no reason to delimit our options that way. This isn't a program where we should tolerate someone who needs on-the-job training.

Hire the best, most qualified candidate you can. Period. Don't over-emphasize nonsense criteria that aren't critical to job performance. And if that candidate happens to be in-house, great.

But let's not pretend that the two guys that are in house are the best, most qualified candidates out there, if the AD performs due diligence.

 

[Brian Orange]

Two adds here. First, I think we all should be very closely monitoring how the new coaches at Duke and UNC fare. They were both internal/alum hires. If both flop you gotta assume that gives Wildhack pause when considering Gmac or Autry. Maybe that also alleviates some pressure (if there is any?) to stay in house and opens up the door a bit more to make an outside hire. The opposite may be true if they suceed.

Second, and I've been saying this for a few years, I don't think the open Syracuse job is as attractive to the top tier candidates as many think. It's a very good job but some of those other big state schools, regardless of their history, flat out may be considered a better job in the eyes of a head coach. I think ESPN just did a survey of the most desirable jobs in CBB and schools like Baylor and Florida State (!) received votes while we received none.

 

[kirbivore]

Syracuse can win the ACC this year, or finish in the top 2 or 3 for sure. I don't know what people here who are so definitive at this point in the season would think or say, not that they have anything meaningful to say anyhoo.

 

[kirbivore]

Alabama got crushed by Memphis last night. Where are all the Nate Oats fans today?

After beating Gonzaga and Houston the Tide played a road game vs. a desperate Memphis team. They meet again in March Bama crushes them.

 

[CousCuse]

After beating Gonzaga and Houston the Tide played a road game vs. a desperate Memphis team. They meet again in March Bama crushes them.

They also lost to Iona.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

Two adds here. First, I think we all should be very closely monitoring how the new coaches at Duke and UNC fare. They were both internal/alum hires. If both flop you gotta assume that gives Wildhack pause when considering Gmac or Autry. Maybe that also alleviates some pressure (if there is any?) to stay in house and opens up the door a bit more to make an outside hire. The opposite may be true if they suceed.

Second, and I've been saying this for a few years, I don't think the open Syracuse job is as attractive to the top tier candidates as many think. It's a very good job but some of those other big state schools, regardless of their history, flat out may be considered a better job in the eyes of a head coach. I think ESPN just did a survey of the most desirable jobs in CBB and schools like Baylor and Florida State (!) received votes while we received none.

A good HC can get a kid to follow him anywhere. So as long as the HC has $upport and is getting paid, there is no reason to leave one P5 school for another. You can win a title at Baylor, Nova, UVA. You don't need to be at Duke, UNC, UCLA. There needs to be an incentive financially or institutionally.

 

[RF2044]

Two adds here. First, I think we all should be very closely monitoring how the new coaches at Duke and UNC fare. They were both internal/alum hires. If both flop you gotta assume that gives Wildhack pause when considering Gmac or Autry. Maybe that also alleviates some pressure (if there is any?) to stay in house and opens up the door a bit more to make an outside hire. The opposite may be true if they suceed.

Second, and I've been saying this for a few years, I don't think the open Syracuse job is as attractive to the top tier candidates as many think. It's a very good job but some of those other big state schools, regardless of their history, flat out may be considered a better job in the eyes of a head coach. I think ESPN just did a survey of the most desirable jobs in CBB and schools like Baylor and Florida State (!) received votes while we received none.

Per your paragraph 2 -- you might be right, that's entirely subjective.

BUT I don't think you are accurately portraying it -- because the situation wouldn't be SU against every other college job, it's the SU vacancy at the point in time when it opens up compared to only the other open positions at that point in time.

And when that transpires, it is sure to be near the top [if not at the top by itself] of open positions, any given time.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

Per your paragraph 2 -- you might be right, that's entirely subjective.

BUT I don't think you are accurately portraying it -- because the situation wouldn't be SU against every other college job, it's the SU vacancy at the point in time when it opens up compared to only the other open positions at that point in time.

And when that transpires, it is sure to be near the top [if not at the top by itself] of open positions, any given time.

SU is one of the best jobs still for sure. The problem is we will need to get a mid major HC. Look at the Top 25 right now. Most of those coaches wouldn't leave their job for SU. Yes, SU is a better job than theirs but there is no reason to make a move on their part. They have established a program and are getting paid. There is no reason to risk a move to SU even if the prestige is higher. If this were 2014 then maybe, but not after the last 8 seasons.

 

[DilemaCuse]

They also lost to Iona.

They are/were also ranked #6, SU hasnt been close to sniffing a Top 25 ranking for what feels like years now

 

[DilemaCuse]

SU is one of the best jobs still for sure. The problem is we will need to get a mid major HC. Look at the Top 25 right now. Most of those coaches wouldn't leave their job for SU. Yes, SU is a better job than theirs but there is no reason to make a move on their part. They have established a program and are getting paid. There is no reason to risk a move to SU even if the prestige is higher. If this were 2014 then maybe, but not after the last 8 seasons.

Good point and I agree unless you see athletic directors go nuts like they did in football during this coaching carousel and poach one football factory coach to come to another football factory like Lincoln Riley and Brian Kelly. I doubt we would see that but you never know

 

[Brian Orange]

Per your paragraph 2 -- you might be right, that's entirely subjective.

BUT I don't think you are accurately portraying it -- because the situation wouldn't be SU against every other college job, it's the SU vacancy at the point in time when it opens up compared to only the other open positions at that point in time.

And when that transpires, it is sure to be near the top [if not at the top by itself] of open positions, any given time.

Fair point ... but is it just against the other open positions? Alabama isn't open but it's still us versus Alabama if we wanted Nate Oats and honestly I that's 50-50 at best he's leave there for us.

 

[phil77]

If we don’t have the funds or prestige to Oats away from Alabama then what are we doing? Basketball is our calling cards. We are a brand name especially in basketball from coast to coast. We play in what is regarded as the best basketball conference. If we as a university aren’t committed to keeping our basketball team elite then we should have just stayed in the Big East because we sure aren’t committed to putting a winning product on the football field.

 

[RF2044]

Fair point ... but is it just against the other open positions? Alabama isn't open but it's still us versus Alabama if we wanted Nate Oats and honestly I that's 50-50 at best he's leave there for us.

That's 100% fair, for that type of example -- with a specific coach already at a specific program.

I was talking more in general about when the vacancy opens up.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

If we don’t have the funds or prestige to Oats away from Alabama then what are we doing? Basketball is our calling cards. We are a brand name especially in basketball from coast to coast. We play in what is regarded as the best basketball conference. If we as a university aren’t committed to keeping our basketball team elite then we should have just stayed in the Big East because we sure aren’t committed to putting a winning product on the football field.

You don't need to be a brand name to win a title. Bama can pay more than us. Why leave? The last 10 champs include Baylor, UVA, UConn (2x), Nova (2x), Louisville. That is 7 of the last 10 that came from schools that were less prestigious than SU a dozen years ago. And a few years before that Florida won back to back titles. If you already have a program humming, have the needed facilities, and are getting paid why would you leave for SU? Who cares about prestige if you aren't getting anything out of it?

 

[phil77]

You don't need to be a brand name to win a title. Bama can pay more than us. Why leave? The last 10 champs include Baylor, UVA, UConn (2x), Nova (2x), Louisville. That is 7 of the last 10 that came from schools that were less prestigious than SU a dozen years ago. And a few years before that Florida won back to back titles. If you already have a program humming, have the needed facilities, and are getting paid why would you leave for SU? Who cares about prestige if you aren't getting anything out of it?

Bama can only pay more than us because we choose so. If we aren’t going to pay more for a coach then we just aren’t serious. The whole idea they can pay more is based on speculation. We shouldn’t accept that as an excuse and that is all it will be an excuse.

What do most of the schools you listed have in common? Top flight coaching.

 

[RF2044]

Bama can only pay more than us because we choose so. If we aren’t going to pay more for a coach then we just aren’t serious. The whole idea they can pay more is based on speculation. We shouldn’t accept that as an excuse and that is all it will be an excuse.

What do most of the schools you listed have in common? Top flight coaching.

...which is why it is incredibly important that we don't flub the replacement hire, and promote someone who isn't a top flight coach.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

Bama can only pay more than us because we choose so. If we aren’t going to pay more for a coach then we just aren’t serious. The whole idea they can pay more is based on speculation. We shouldn’t accept that as an excuse and that is all it will be an excuse.

What do most of the schools you listed have in common? Top flight coaching.

We would have to offer $4.5M just for Oats to pick up the phone. Bama can match anything we offer. Sure we should try to get a good HC but to steal one from a P5 school we will need to overpay. Which is dangerous since you lock yourself into an expensive long term contract. I rather get the next Oats at UB than the Bama Oats.