Time for a complete cleanse

[Madbiker]

The HC has to have force of personality, charisma, drive, and an edge. He has to be a leader not a follow- the- instructions that somebody else used kind of guy. Chuckle about JB all you want in having the above but in his younger days he convinced a lot of great players to come to SU. He built the program and kept it humming for decades. Heck, he convinced Juli so he must have something. Red is a nice guy. But he's so laid back I question if he has the stuff to lead even if he "knows basketball". GMac? Don't know either.

 

[OrlandoCuse]

No way.

The only way that happens is if JB over the University, a la Dean Smith, and "retires" right before a season unexpectedly when it is too late for the school to conduct a search.

And if it does happen, that person being elevated will only be temporary. Because they won't kill it, they'll struggle, and the school will move on.

The next hire will come from outside otherwise.

You are wishful, IMO. Syracuse is a school that doesn’t like radical change. That would indicate they’d lean toward an internal hire.

If they go external it’s because the program had consecutive losing seasons add they know Autry or GMac aren’t the solution.

If JB manages to go slightly above .500 the next two years the program will be handed over to an internal hire. It’s the wrong decision, but that’s what would happen.

I’d prefer a fresh start. But if they do go internal I believe it will be Red.

 

[RF2044]

You are wishful, IMO. Syracuse is a school that doesn’t like radical change. That would indicate they’d lean toward an internal hire.

If they go external it’s because the program had consecutive losing seasons add they know Autry or GMac aren’t the solution.

If JB manages to go slightly above .500 the next two years the program will be handed over to an internal hire. It’s the wrong decision, but that’s what would happen.

I’d prefer a fresh start. But if they do go internal I believe it will be Red.

If you accept the imaginary criteria you are claiming as fact ["Syracuse is a school that doesn't like radical change" -- whatever that means], then I understand how you might come to that conclusion.

But the reality of the situation is that we are in uncharted waters. Nobody can claim the "precedent" card as a predictive component of how things might unfold.

Because facing facts, we have not had a head coaching change in five decades [rounding up]. Nobody knows what evaluative criteria will be emphasized, what direction we'll go, or what the AD will do.

But I see a lot of people pretending that "precedent" matters, when we are discussing a change that hasn't occurred in 45+ years. Or espousing what the financial limitations are, just because JB has been okay accepting a salary that has been far below market value. Or that we need to hire from within because it worked with the previous hire, 45 years ago, when both the "business" of college athletics and SU's place in said market were both immensely different [and smaller] than where things fall today.

I also think that people view JW as being weak, and not a numbers driven business man. I find it impossible to believe that a seasoned, accomplished senior executive would look at the options available and decide that the best course of action is to artificially delimit the search to two candidates that nobody else has wanted to date. That's not how someone rises to the top ranks of business leadership, and not how I expect JW to approach this.

Again, no offense to Red / GMac.

 

[OrlandoCuse]

If you accept the imaginary criteria you are claiming as fact ["Syracuse is a school that doesn't like radical change" -- whatever that means], then I understand how you might come to that conclusion.

But the reality of the situation is that we are in uncharted waters. Nobody can claim the "precedent" card as a predictive component of how things might unfold.

Because facing facts, we have not had a head coaching change in five decades [rounding up]. Nobody knows what evaluative criteria will be emphasized, what direction we'll go, or what the AD will do.

But I see a lot of people pretending that "precedent" matters, when we are discussing a change that hasn't occurred in 45+ years. Or espousing what the financial limitations are, just because JB has been okay accepting a salary that has been far below market value. Or that we need to hire from within because it worked with the previous hire, 45 years ago, when both the "business" of college athletics and SU's place in said market were both immensely different [and smaller] than where things fall today.

I also think that people view JW as being weak, and not a numbers driven business man. I find it impossible to believe that a seasoned, accomplished senior executive would look at the options available and decide that the best course of action is to artificially delimit the search to two candidates that nobody else has wanted to date. That's not how someone rises to the top ranks of business leadership, and not how I expect JW to approach this.

Again, no offense to Red / GMac.

You are confusing what you would do if you were AD with what Syracuse / Wildhack will do.

Every indication with Wildhack is that he gives long rope and doesn’t make radical changes. Furthermore, like you said, he’s a corporate guy. That means he’s most likely a guy that is capable of playing corporate politics. Combine those factors together and you arrive at hiring an internal candidate if the program is not a dumpster fire.

But if JB has two consecutive losing seasons it gives Wildhack more power to hire an outside coach. If he limps alone and finishes slightly above .500 then JW will most likely go internal.

 

[hoopsupstate]

Would you rather have either Red or GMAC or Hop?

 

[BigNastyJon]

Would you rather have either Red or GMAC or Hop?

Red.

 

[RF2044]

You are confusing what you would do if you were AD with what Syracuse / Wildhack will do.

Every indication with Wildhack is that he gives long rope and doesn’t make radical changes. Furthermore, like you said, he’s a corporate guy. That means he’s most likely a guy that is capable of playing corporate politics. Combine those factors together and you arrive at hiring an internal candidate if the program is not a dumpster fire.

But if JB has two consecutive losing seasons it gives Wildhack more power to hire an outside coach. If he limps alone and finishes slightly above .500 then JW will most likely go internal.

No, I'm pointing out the course of action that has the best chance of breaking the cycle of subpar status quo that we've been mired in for an extended number of years.

I understand people who want change, but express the opinion that the university will hire an internal candidate. My remarks aren't directed at them.

But what I don't understand are people who think that hiring an internal candidate -- to the exclusionary expense of doing due diligence -- is an acceptable, viable strategic course of action.

It's mind boggling. Especially when you consider that a program with the largest on campus multi-purpose sports facility in collegiate athletics, that can easily produce the highest attendance totals, that plays in the ACC conference, and is top 5 all-time in wins, would look at the available candidate pool and conclude that two AC's that have never garnered a sniff from any other program to be head coaches are the best qualified candidates, or the best that we can do.

And I think you are confusing the power that JB might have been able to wield 5 years ago, when things were going reasonably well and we were coming off of a period of sustained success, where we were contending for top seeds, with the position that the program is in now. If he limps along and finishes slightly above .500, that should be proof positive that a clean break is needed.

We are freaking Syracuse -- a top 5 all time program. It is astounding to me frankly how low our fanbase is willing to set the bar now, and how afraid of change many seem to be. My god.

 

[OrlandoCuse]

No, I'm pointing out the course of action that has the best chance of breaking the cycle of subpar status quo that we've been mired in for an extended number of years.

I understand people who want change, but express the opinion that the university will hire an internal candidate. My remarks aren't directed at them.

But what I don't understand are people who think that hiring an internal candidate -- to the exclusionary expense of doing due diligence -- is an acceptable, viable strategic course of action.

It's mind boggling. Especially when you consider that a program with the largest on campus multi-purpose sports facility in collegiate athletics, that can easily produce the highest attendance totals, that plays in the ACC conference, and is top 5 all-time in wins, would look at the available candidate pool and conclude that two AC's that have never garnered a sniff from any other program to be head coaches are the best qualified candidates, or the best that we can do.

And I think you are confusing the power that JB might have been able to wield 5 years ago, when things were going reasonably well and we were coming off of a period of sustained success, where we were contending for top seeds, with the position that the program is in now. If he limps along and finishes slightly above .500, that should be proof positive that a clean break is needed.

We are freaking Syracuse -- a top 5 all time program. It is astounding to me frankly how low our fanbase is willing to set the bar now, and how afraid of change many seem to be. My god.

I want an external hire and completely new direction. So I agree with you. I'm just doubtful that's the direction Syracuse goes. Something tells me that the easier path for them will be to move forward with someone that will continue Boeheim's legacy.

 

[RF2044]

There are only four scenarios / use cases that justify hiring from within:

1. The program is experiencing a high level of success, and there's incentive for continuity -- such that an internal hire might sustain the wave of excellent recruiting / performance
2. The program is a low level program with limited resources, so hiring an unproven candidate internally basically represents the same level of risk as hiring an external candidate, who is similarly low level / generally unproven
3. There's an internal candidate who is viewed as a rising superstar
4. The AD gets "forced" into temporarily hiring an internal candidate, because the head coach manipulates circumstances -- such as an unannounced retirement at the 11th hour right before the season starts, the timing of which prevents a legitimate search for a replacement

I think it is safe to say that scenarios #1, 2, and 3 don't apply here.

I think #4 could occur, but given JB's love for Syracuse University, I find it difficult to envision that he'd put the program in that position. But this is the only use case that I could envision where Red / GMac get the job, and if that happens then it would only be a temporary situation.

 

[FRANKIEFAN]

I'd question Red or Gerry being hired with the cupboard loaded and inheriting a stacked team.

But with what we would give them to work with no way. That ship has sailed with JB handing over the keys and a good team. It shouldn't even be considered because they would be lame ducks and similar to Luke Padgett at Louisville from day 1. We'd have to get rejected by a lot of guys if that was an option you entertain.

Now if either drop down a level to be head coach and win games you bet your A that they are going to be the replacement for JBs replacement. If Gerry went to Duquense and had a winning record our fans would run the current coach out of town and demand his hire.

 

[FRANKIEFAN]

You are wishful, IMO. Syracuse is a school that doesn’t like radical change. That would indicate they’d lean toward an internal hire.

If they go external it’s because the program had consecutive losing seasons add they know Autry or GMac aren’t the solution.

If JB manages to go slightly above .500 the next two years the program will be handed over to an internal hire. It’s the wrong decision, but that’s what would happen.

I’d prefer a fresh start. But if they do go internal I believe it will be Red.

That Dome is big.

Tickets aren't cheap.

Its our main sport.

Lots of TV/League money.

Even a B hire costs a lot. If we have the opportunity to get a top guy we have to take it.

 

[kcsu]

Would you rather have either Red or GMAC or Hop?

For the longest time i was very much against Gmac. Felt he was mediocre at best and undeserving of being an assistant coach.

Today i truly believe he is the right guy to take over for Jim.
Here are a few reasons.

1: He bleeds Orange. He lives and dies for Syracuse and i believe that is so important. He understands the Culture of not only SU but as importantly the area. SU is unique. Yes its a storied Basketball school but the area is unique and Gmac loves it.

2: He can recruit and will recruit better when hes in Charge. I actually think that Jim loses as many if not more kids than not based on his age and personality. Hes definitely not for everyone and he doesn't seem to connect with todays players.

3: Gmac is driven and as tough a competitor as we have ever had

4: Hes a Guard and you cant win Basketball games without great Guard play. Id bet anything he was disappointed when Kadary left and if he was head coach im sure hed still be on the team.

5: Hiring the guy to follow a HOF coach is a total crap shoot. Giving Gmac the shot and keeping it in house is the right move. If he fails you move on.

Why blow up 60 years of success. By a cleanse i meant moving on from Jim as a coach. Not what hes built.

 

[FrancoPizza]

Just hire slick Rick to a 5 year contract with the expectation that he rights the ship and increases our leverage to find the next guy.

Plus just imagine the uptick in business at our local fine dining Italian establishments…

 

[rrlbees]

For the longest time i was very much against Gmac. Felt he was mediocre at best and undeserving of being an assistant coach.

Today i truly believe he is the right guy to take over for Jim.
Here are a few reasons.

1: He bleeds Orange. He lives and dies for Syracuse and i believe that is so important. He understands the Culture of not only SU but as importantly the area. SU is unique. Yes its a storied Basketball school but the area is unique and Gmac loves it.

2: He can recruit and will recruit better when hes in Charge. I actually think that Jim loses as many if not more kids than not based on his age and personality. Hes definitely not for everyone and he doesn't seem to connect with todays players.

3: Gmac is driven and as tough a competitor as we have ever had

4: Hes a Guard and you cant win Basketball games without great Guard play. Id bet anything he was disappointed when Kadary left and if he was head coach im sure hed still be on the team.

5: Hiring the guy to follow a HOF coach is a total crap shoot. Giving Gmac the shot and keeping it in house is the right move. If he fails you move on.

Why blow up 60 years of success. By a cleanse i meant moving on from Jim as a coach. Not what hes built.

And for those who keep saying Gmac has no personality and is blasé, they couldn’t be more wrong. Recruits always seem to mention him and their great relationship with him, whether we get the recruit or not. And here are the words of a recruit in an article just yesterday. Reid Ducharme.

“Coach Gerry McNamara has been talking with me a lot. I love his energy; we both play(ed) with that dog mentality.”

 

[OrangeDW]

The HC has to have force of personality, charisma, drive, and an edge. He has to be a leader not a follow- the- instructions that somebody else used kind of guy. Chuckle about JB all you want in having the above but in his younger days he convinced a lot of great players to come to SU. He built the program and kept it humming for decades. Heck, he convinced Juli so he must have something. Red is a nice guy. But he's so laid back I question if he has the stuff to lead even if he "knows basketball". GMac? Don't know either.

Eh. My questions are more on the lack of experience of actually game coaching. Managing the game. That’s the part that some guys have and some don’t….and some improve at it. But with zero experience actually doing it, how would we know?

I don’t agree that Red being laid back is necessarily a negative though. Coaches have to be themselves and if he’s making the right moves and doing the right things, it doesn’t make a difference what his personality is.

 

[OrangeDW]

For the longest time i was very much against Gmac. Felt he was mediocre at best and undeserving of being an assistant coach.

Today i truly believe he is the right guy to take over for Jim.
Here are a few reasons.

1: He bleeds Orange. He lives and dies for Syracuse and i believe that is so important. He understands the Culture of not only SU but as importantly the area. SU is unique. Yes its a storied Basketball school but the area is unique and Gmac loves it.

2: He can recruit and will recruit better when hes in Charge. I actually think that Jim loses as many if not more kids than not based on his age and personality. Hes definitely not for everyone and he doesn't seem to connect with todays players.

3: Gmac is driven and as tough a competitor as we have ever had

4: Hes a Guard and you cant win Basketball games without great Guard play. Id bet anything he was disappointed when Kadary left and if he was head coach im sure hed still be on the team.

5: Hiring the guy to follow a HOF coach is a total crap shoot. Giving Gmac the shot and keeping it in house is the right move. If he fails you move on.

Why blow up 60 years of success. By a cleanse i meant moving on from Jim as a coach. Not what hes built.

And for those who keep saying Gmac has no personality and is blasé, they couldn’t be more wrong. Recruits always seem to mention him and their great relationship with him, whether we get the recruit or not. And here are the words of a recruit in an article just yesterday. Reid Ducharme.

“Coach Gerry McNamara has been talking with me a lot. I love his energy; we both play(ed) with that dog mentality.”

Gerry had 43 against BYU. Red had 31 in the second half against Missouri. They were both dogs on the court. Both good guys who I would be thrilled to root for.

I’m bummed that we haven’t been able to get this thing really humming again, before passing it off to one of them. If we were coming off the CJ Fair, Triche, etc years I’d feel good about promoting and keeping continuity.

 

[Carlsberg]

Who is coming in for 2.5 million who is better than JAB? Honest question.

Dennis Gates Cleveland State...took a team with no real basketball program from 11 wins to 16-4 in The Horizon League...He was at 5 major college programs, and he can coach decent fundamentals...his team can pass. But he's not sexy...Someone from A10 to Horizon if the budget is 2.5 M. Jay Wright was the Coach of Hofstra for 6 years before taking over Nova and building what he built there on Rollie's legend

 

[nyucuse]

If you accept the imaginary criteria you are claiming as fact ["Syracuse is a school that doesn't like radical change" -- whatever that means], then I understand how you might come to that conclusion.

But the reality of the situation is that we are in uncharted waters. Nobody can claim the "precedent" card as a predictive component of how things might unfold.

Because facing facts, we have not had a head coaching change in five decades [rounding up]. Nobody knows what evaluative criteria will be emphasized, what direction we'll go, or what the AD will do.

But I see a lot of people pretending that "precedent" matters, when we are discussing a change that hasn't occurred in 45+ years. Or espousing what the financial limitations are, just because JB has been okay accepting a salary that has been far below market value. Or that we need to hire from within because it worked with the previous hire, 45 years ago, when both the "business" of college athletics and SU's place in said market were both immensely different [and smaller] than where things fall today.

I also think that people view JW as being weak, and not a numbers driven business man. I find it impossible to believe that a seasoned, accomplished senior executive would look at the options available and decide that the best course of action is to artificially delimit the search to two candidates that nobody else has wanted to date. That's not how someone rises to the top ranks of business leadership, and not how I expect JW to approach this.

Again, no offense to Red / GMac.

Your lips to God's ear... I am 1000% with you. I just hope (and pray) the Admin is aligned in it's view.

 

[STEVEHOLT]

SU athletics need a fresh start. The LaCrosse move is excellent and exciting. JW needs to take the same approach with Basketball and Football.
As to Basketball my pick is GMac. Red is also deserving but i want Macs energy. We need to get our Mojo back and i believe Mac is the guy to do it.
His blood is Orange and he connects with todays kids.
I hope that Jim steps down after the season and Macs given a shot.
We need a fresh start and yes hes an insider but i think hes our best bet to get back and get back quickly.
As to Dino...

It’s amazing how often in life that the best person in the entire world to hire for the next gig just happens to already be at the same institution.. uncanny

 

[Cusefan0307]

And for those who keep saying Gmac has no personality and is blasé, they couldn’t be more wrong. Recruits always seem to mention him and their great relationship with him, whether we get the recruit or not. And here are the words of a recruit in an article just yesterday. Reid Ducharme.

“Coach Gerry McNamara has been talking with me a lot. I love his energy; we both play(ed) with that dog mentality.”

It’s lazy analysis by fans who have only listened to Gerry when he played and to be clear this is not me saying I want him as coach.

 

[Bayside44]

No, I'm pointing out the course of action that has the best chance of breaking the cycle of subpar status quo that we've been mired in for an extended number of years.

I understand people who want change, but express the opinion that the university will hire an internal candidate. My remarks aren't directed at them.

But what I don't understand are people who think that hiring an internal candidate -- to the exclusionary expense of doing due diligence -- is an acceptable, viable strategic course of action.

It's mind boggling. Especially when you consider that a program with the largest on campus multi-purpose sports facility in collegiate athletics, that can easily produce the highest attendance totals, that plays in the ACC conference, and is top 5 all-time in wins, would look at the available candidate pool and conclude that two AC's that have never garnered a sniff from any other program to be head coaches are the best qualified candidates, or the best that we can do.

And I think you are confusing the power that JB might have been able to wield 5 years ago, when things were going reasonably well and we were coming off of a period of sustained success, where we were contending for top seeds, with the position that the program is in now. If he limps along and finishes slightly above .500, that should be proof positive that a clean break is needed.

We are freaking Syracuse -- a top 5 all time program. It is astounding to me frankly how low our fanbase is willing to set the bar now, and how afraid of change many seem to be. My god.

What many want and what will happen could be two very different things. It's the guy replacing the guy (that is JB who will likely be hanging around) that a lot of big time people wouldn't want to deal with (and with good reason). Internal guy flops and then it's wide open.

Unless the whole thing completely craters when JB is no longer the coach.

I don't bet, but that would be my bet.

 

[Eric15]

What this program needs is new blood and an influx of new ideas, not a perpetuation of mediocrity, limiting ourselves to a talent pool of under qualified candidates who are no trick ponies in the sense that they would likely continue the same systems, only with neither of them being in JB's league in terms of X's and O's.

^ This times infinity. ^

 

[CousCuse]

Hopkins should be the next coach. He still has all his connections for east coast recruiting and has learned a lot being an HC at a P5 program like UW.

 

[Cusefan0307]

What many want and what will happen could be two very different things. It's the guy replacing the guy (that is JB who will likely be hanging around) that a lot of big time people wouldn't want to deal with (and with good reason). Internal guy flops and then it's wide open.

Unless the whole thing completely craters when JB is no longer the coach.

I don't bet, but that would be my bet.

What the fans want and what the majority of the basketball alumni want are not the same. I might not agree with it, but there's a strong urge to have one of their own replace JB. It's been discussed on ED's pod and it's been discussed in private.

 

[RF2044]

What many want and what will happen could be two very different things. It's the guy replacing the guy (that is JB who will likely be hanging around) that a lot of big time people wouldn't want to deal with (and with good reason). Internal guy flops and then it's wide open.

Unless the whole thing completely craters when JB is no longer the coach.

I don't bet, but that would be my bet.

What everyone should want is for the next head coach to be the one most capable of not flopping.

And the best way to avoid that is to hire the most qualified candidate, period -- instead of artificially constraining our candidate pool on BS criteria.

It's not a fait accompli that the guy replacing THE GUY has to flop.