Time for Marrone to get an extension

[Crusty]

Granted, last year's 5 game slide sucks. We can keep beating the hell out of that horse too (not addressed at you Whitey). Correct, he's 17-20 in 3 years.

GRob was:
2005: 1-10, 0-7 BE (took over a 6-6 team)
2006: 4-8, 1-6 BE
2007: 2-10, 1-6 BE
2008: 3-9, 1-6 BE
Totals: 10-37, 3-25 BE

3-25. Took over a 6-6 team. hmmm.

Marrone is 17-20, 6-15 and was hired to take over the warm garbage that GRob left for him. He made a bowl game his 2nd year. He missed a bowl game last year by one victory. GRob never sniffed a bowl game. People quickly forget how much of a hole this program was in 2008. 20+ players were asked or voluntarily left the program. He had 60 scholarship players or something his first year. Marrone even said when he was hired that this was going to take 5 years to turn around. Need to restore the Orange Pride and Tradition. I think Monday's activities prove that he is starting to do that.

This year, the majority of the players are ones he recruited for his system. We are playing an absolutely brutal OOC conference schedule that will challenge the piss out of the staff and players, as well as the fans. We most likely won't be delighted with the results, but I'm holding out a bit of hope. We got a young team with alot of athleticism.

So why not extend Marrone? By bringing in a new coach, our schedule isn't going to be any easier. He will have to recruit new players for his system and will likely muddle up the recruiting areas/system. The staff is making inroads in NYC, PA, MI, GA, FL, DC/VA/MD. Why would you start over? Marrone has said that this is his dream job. We can go out and hire an up-and-comer and he dumps us for a hotter girlfriend in 4 years. Back to square one. We need consistency in the program, and the absolute only way to do it right now is to offer Marrone a 3 or 4-year extension. It would show that SU is standing behind him and the staff to right the ship.

GRob took over a 6-6 program and drove it into the shitter, to be polite. Marrone took over a 10-37, 3-25 program and has turned it into 17-20, 6-15 in 3 years. Earth-shattering? Not at all. I'd like to see a coach take over a program that was annually in the ESPN Bottom 10, lose 20+ players within months after your hiring, have antiquated facilities, a miserable fan base and turn it into a winner in 3 years. Marrone took us to 8-5 in his 2nd year. 2nd year. Last year was a disappointing ending, no doubt. But we also trounced a WVU team that put up 70 on Clemson in a BCS bowl game. Just saying.

We are in a better position with Marrone than we were without him. That is enough reason to give him an extension.

Yes, great post and I agree 100%. We have a chance to have a Beamer here. I keep saying just look at Beamer's start and most would have fired him after his first 6 years: 2-9, 3-8, 6-4-1, 6-5, 5-6, 2-8-1. We all know what followed.

Marrone makes me proud he is our coach but more importantly he passes my most important test - I would want my son to play for him.

 

[GoSU96]

Granted, last year's 5 game slide sucks. We can keep beating the hell out of that horse too (not addressed at you Whitey). Correct, he's 17-20 in 3 years.

GRob was:
2005: 1-10, 0-7 BE (took over a 6-6 team)
2006: 4-8, 1-6 BE
2007: 2-10, 1-6 BE
2008: 3-9, 1-6 BE
Totals: 10-37, 3-25 BE

3-25. Took over a 6-6 team. hmmm.

Marrone is 17-20, 6-15 and was hired to take over the warm garbage that GRob left for him. He made a bowl game his 2nd year. He missed a bowl game last year by one victory. GRob never sniffed a bowl game. People quickly forget how much of a hole this program was in 2008. 20+ players were asked or voluntarily left the program. He had 60 scholarship players or something his first year. Marrone even said when he was hired that this was going to take 5 years to turn around. Need to restore the Orange Pride and Tradition. I think Monday's activities prove that he is starting to do that.

This year, the majority of the players are ones he recruited for his system. We are playing an absolutely brutal OOC conference schedule that will challenge the piss out of the staff and players, as well as the fans. We most likely won't be delighted with the results, but I'm holding out a bit of hope. We got a young team with alot of athleticism.

So why not extend Marrone? By bringing in a new coach, our schedule isn't going to be any easier. He will have to recruit new players for his system and will likely muddle up the recruiting areas/system. The staff is making inroads in NYC, PA, MI, GA, FL, DC/VA/MD. Why would you start over? Marrone has said that this is his dream job. We can go out and hire an up-and-comer and he dumps us for a hotter girlfriend in 4 years. Back to square one. We need consistency in the program, and the absolute only way to do it right now is to offer Marrone a 3 or 4-year extension. It would show that SU is standing behind him and the staff to right the ship.

GRob took over a 6-6 program and drove it into the shitter, to be polite. Marrone took over a 10-37, 3-25 program and has turned it into 17-20, 6-15 in 3 years. Earth-shattering? Not at all. I'd like to see a coach take over a program that was annually in the ESPN Bottom 10, lose 20+ players within months after your hiring, have antiquated facilities, a miserable fan base and turn it into a winner in 3 years. Marrone took us to 8-5 in his 2nd year. 2nd year. Last year was a disappointing ending, no doubt. But we also trounced a WVU team that put up 70 on Clemson in a BCS bowl game. Just saying.

We are in a better position with Marrone than we were without him. That is enough reason to give him an extension.

Well done.

 

[rrlbees]

Granted, last year's 5 game slide sucks. We can keep beating the hell out of that horse too (not addressed at you Whitey). Correct, he's 17-20 in 3 years.

GRob was:
2005: 1-10, 0-7 BE (took over a 6-6 team)
2006: 4-8, 1-6 BE
2007: 2-10, 1-6 BE
2008: 3-9, 1-6 BE
Totals: 10-37, 3-25 BE

3-25. Took over a 6-6 team. hmmm.

Marrone is 17-20, 6-15 and was hired to take over the warm garbage that GRob left for him. He made a bowl game his 2nd year. He missed a bowl game last year by one victory. GRob never sniffed a bowl game. People quickly forget how much of a hole this program was in 2008. 20+ players were asked or voluntarily left the program. He had 60 scholarship players or something his first year. Marrone even said when he was hired that this was going to take 5 years to turn around. Need to restore the Orange Pride and Tradition. I think Monday's activities prove that he is starting to do that.

This year, the majority of the players are ones he recruited for his system. We are playing an absolutely brutal OOC conference schedule that will challenge the piss out of the staff and players, as well as the fans. We most likely won't be delighted with the results, but I'm holding out a bit of hope. We got a young team with alot of athleticism.

So why not extend Marrone? By bringing in a new coach, our schedule isn't going to be any easier. He will have to recruit new players for his system and will likely muddle up the recruiting areas/system. The staff is making inroads in NYC, PA, MI, GA, FL, DC/VA/MD. Why would you start over? Marrone has said that this is his dream job. We can go out and hire an up-and-comer and he dumps us for a hotter girlfriend in 4 years. Back to square one. We need consistency in the program, and the absolute only way to do it right now is to offer Marrone a 3 or 4-year extension. It would show that SU is standing behind him and the staff to right the ship.

GRob took over a 6-6 program and drove it into the shitter, to be polite. Marrone took over a 10-37, 3-25 program and has turned it into 17-20, 6-15 in 3 years. Earth-shattering? Not at all. I'd like to see a coach take over a program that was annually in the ESPN Bottom 10, lose 20+ players within months after your hiring, have antiquated facilities, a miserable fan base and turn it into a winner in 3 years. Marrone took us to 8-5 in his 2nd year. 2nd year. Last year was a disappointing ending, no doubt. But we also trounced a WVU team that put up 70 on Clemson in a BCS bowl game. Just saying.

We are in a better position with Marrone than we were without him. That is enough reason to give him an extension.

Roc, While I 100% believe Marrone should and will get an extension between now and December, I'm not completely on board with your premise. It feels too much like he should get one because we are in better shape than we were with the last guy. One of the last reasons I would give a coach an extension is just because of a comparison. Expectations have to be more than just being better than the last guy. You can read through this thread, or many other threads, and that sentiment is embedded in many peoples minds. It appears some people will be happy with 6-6 even in year 6 and that is because it is better than 3-9. There are other good reasons to give him an extension, but just because the record, or anything else, is better than before isn't one of them. I hold higher expectations, but not unreasonable ones, than just being better than our previous records. It's a crutch people use to justify their opinion against others whose may have opinions that not everything is perfect and there are issues. "It's better than the last guy".

 

[Rocco]

Roc, While I 100% believe Marrone should and will get an extension between now and December, I'm not completely on board with your premise. It feels too much like he should get one because we are in better shape than we were with the last guy. One of the last reasons I would give a coach an extension is just because of a comparison. Expectations have to be more than just being better than the last guy. You can read through this thread, or many other threads, and that sentiment is embedded in many peoples minds. It appears some people will be happy with 6-6 even in year 6 and that is because it is better than 3-9. There are other good reasons to give him an extension, but just because the record, or anything else, is better than before isn't one of them. I hold higher expectations, but not unreasonable ones, than just being better than our previous records. It's a crutch people use to justify their opinion against others whose may have opinions that not everything is perfect and there are issues. "It's better than the last guy".

How else is he supposed to get judged? I know anyone can make mincemeat out of GRob's lack of success, but we also need to realize that when he was fired in December '08, the program was an all-time low. Syracuse was the laughing stock of college football. We were getting whooped by Akron and Rutgers. It is impossible to say how another coach would do given the same circumstances at Syracuse as Marrone, but in my opinion, it wouldn't be much different. The brand needed to be rebuilt, recruiting roads need to be repaved, facilities needed to be upgraded and the overall team chemistry needed to be weeded out. All of those things have been improved (yes there were still issues on the team last year, but no team is perfect).

Syracuse's standards unfortunately took a nose dive over the last decade, and they are slowly being raised. I don't know what else you can compare Marrone to besides his own program at Syracuse. I think people's expectations are way too high, which I guess has been diagnosed as impatient fan syndrome (IFD). It would be great to see a winning record this year, but there is a chance that it won't be. To be 6-6 in year 6, as you say, would not be appetizing to me at all. Not sure where other people stand on that. I really like where our recruiting is going (yes it is unproven), and I'm really pumped about our current class. To give DM an extension right now would certainly help in securing the 2013 class. The last 2 classes have also been encouraging. Can't wait to see how it equates to actual wins.

It's possible to favorably compare a random Auburn HS team to GRob's teams. Comparing Marrone's teams to them is obviously easy. I don't know what other benchmark you can compare him to when factoring in all of the circumstances he faced when he took over. In this case, I think he deserves an extension for what he has accomplished so far, which isn't mind-blowing... but we needed to take baby steps to get out of the quicksand.

 

[GoSU96]

Roc, While I 100% believe Marrone should and will get an extension between now and December, I'm not completely on board with your premise. It feels too much like he should get one because we are in better shape than we were with the last guy. One of the last reasons I would give a coach an extension is just because of a comparison. Expectations have to be more than just being better than the last guy. You can read through this thread, or many other threads, and that sentiment is embedded in many peoples minds. It appears some people will be happy with 6-6 even in year 6 and that is because it is better than 3-9. There are other good reasons to give him an extension, but just because the record, or anything else, is better than before isn't one of them. I hold higher expectations, but not unreasonable ones, than just being better than our previous records. It's a crutch people use to justify their opinion against others whose may have opinions that not everything is perfect and there are issues. "It's better than the last guy".

The point isn't a simple comparison, it's to measure if he is doing his job, which is improve the program. Record is just ONE data point. The reference to Robinson is the establish the starting point, that's it.

 

[rrlbees]

How else is he supposed to get judged? I know anyone can make mincemeat out of GRob's lack of success, but we also need to realize that when he was fired in December '08, the program was an all-time low. Syracuse was the laughing stock of college football. We were getting whooped by Akron and Rutgers. It is impossible to say how another coach would do given the same circumstances at Syracuse as Marrone, but in my opinion, it wouldn't be much different. The brand needed to be rebuilt, recruiting roads need to be repaved, facilities needed to be upgraded and the overall team chemistry needed to be weeded out. All of those things have been improved (yes there were still issues on the team last year, but no team is perfect).

Syracuse's standards unfortunately took a nose dive over the last decade, and they are slowly being raised. I don't know what else you can compare Marrone to besides his own program at Syracuse. I think people's expectations are way too high, which I guess has been diagnosed as impatient fan syndrome (IFD). It would be great to see a winning record this year, but there is a chance that it won't be. To be 6-6 in year 6, as you say, would not be appetizing to me at all. Not sure where other people stand on that. I really like where our recruiting is going (yes it is unproven), and I'm really pumped about our current class. To give DM an extension right now would certainly help in securing the 2013 class. The last 2 classes have also been encouraging. Can't wait to see how it equates to actual wins.

It's possible to favorably compare a random Auburn HS team to GRob's teams. Comparing Marrone's teams to them is obviously easy. I don't know what other benchmark you can compare him to when factoring in all of the circumstances he faced when he took over. In this case, I think he deserves an extension for what he has accomplished so far, which isn't mind-blowing... but we needed to take baby steps to get out of the quicksand.

I've evaluated, hired and fired employees for 20 years. You don't evaluate an employee against a prior employee nor a current one. You evaluate them against the objectives and expectations in place for that employee.

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[GoSU96]

I've evaluated, hired and fired employees for 20 years. You don't evaluate an employee against a prior employee nor a current one. You evaluate them against the objectives and expectations in place for that employee.

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And the objectives and expectations of the job were to fix it. That was the first priority.

 

[billsin01]

Yes, great post and I agree 100%. We have a chance to have a Beamer here. I keep saying just look at Beamer's start and most would have fired him after his first 6 years: 2-9, 3-8, 6-4-1, 6-5, 5-6, 2-8-1. We all know what followed.

Marrone makes me proud he is our coach but more importantly he passes my most important test - I would want my son to play for him.

Really salient point -- rebuilding is not linear. Hard to deal with (myself included) but it's good to at least try to remember.

 

[rrlbees]

And the objectives and expectations of the job were to fix it. That was the first priority.

Point? Define "fix" without using the words "better than the last guy" because NOBODY evaluates like that except fans. Define success.

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[billsin01]

Also, this might be a situation where "deserve" has nothing to do with it. Don't know if Doug's "earned" an extension at this point, but would it be good for the program if he gets an extension? And would it be bad for the program if he doesn't?

If the goal is to make the program as successful (as in, wins and losses over the long term) as it can be, I don't see how the school can afford not to give him an extension beyond 2013.

Yeah, I think what he's earned is not entirely relevant. It's all about leverage and appearances. The appearance of stability is important and the fact that Marrone appears to be moving many aspects of the program in the right direction is important as well. So you have the leverage to negotiate the deal you want and if he exceeds those expectations he drives the bus at the next negotiations -- but at that point it's worked out for both parties.

 

[billsin01]

Point? Define "fix" without using the words "better than the last guy" because NOBODY evaluates like that except fans. Define success.

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I would think being in the hunt for and/or going to bowls would be one of the key benchmarks and Marrone has shown the ability to do that.

Does anyone who has an in with DG or the athletic department know if they are at all concerned with DM as an ambassador? I know he has tremendous "character" etc., but he truly seems to despise the schmoozing with folks/media portions of the job.

 

[Fjoinkay]

I'd give him the extension right before fall practice begins or perhaps before the BE media day. In fact, he would already know it was coming. Of course, I base this purely as an outsider with almost no real knowledge of his work within the confines of the SU athletic department and within the university as a whole. Based on what little I know, my impression is that Marrone's values are solid and aligned with the University, he loves and respects the university and he works extremely hard with increasing effectiveness in building a solid football program everyone can follow with pride.

The risk is that Marrone fails and the athletic department loses money on the extension. In my mind that's a small price to pay when you have the guy with everything I just said and all sorts of other intangibles and whose results so far indicate better results to come. The athletic department should do what it can right now to dispel the winds of controversy that will surely blow hard if the team begins the season 0-2. Besides, searching for another football coach takes a lot of energy and money. Show some conviction and take the risk.

 

[Rocco]

I've evaluated, hired and fired employees for 20 years. You don't evaluate an employee against a prior employee nor a current one. You evaluate them against the objectives and expectations in place for that employee.

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Ok so what were the objectives? Turn the program around. I think he's shown he's starting to do that.

The expectations? I think most fans expectations are unrealistic. I think Gross' expectations are much more realistic and he is behind DM.

 

[Crusty]

Fair criticism of the staff is healthy but I would hope everyone would be realistic. Like everyone, I was very disappointed with the way last season ended largely because I feared it would negatively impact recruiting. Back then I remarked that I thought this recruiting class would be critical. Even though I am a big supporter, I didn't think that DM would survive if recruiting regressed and we had a lousy season. Instead, this class has been a real eye-opener revealing the hard work done by the staff over the past three years.

Forget this season's W-L record and look for competitiveness and improvement in every game. 2013 is the season that will tell the story. After that I think it will be exciting football for the next decade.

 

[kingottoiii]

Ok so what were the objectives? Turn the program around. I think he's shown he's starting to do that.

The expectations? I think most fans expectations are unrealistic. I think Gross' expectations are much more realistic and he is behind DM.

What bothers me and makes me nervous about this year is that Marrone's O skill recruits have shown nothing thus far. For comparison

GRob's O skill recruits his first 3 years (apples to apples) combined for:

Passing 205-390 52.6 % 2770 yards 19 TDs 11 INTs
Rushing 272 carries for 1139 yards 4.19 avg 6 TDs
Receiving 223 catches for 3307 yards 28 TDs

Marrone's:

Passing 196-290 2066 67.6% 13 TD 14 INT
Rushing 97-386 3.98 2 TDs
Receiving 60-486 4 TDs


Now I realize that GRob took over a better situation which made recruiting easier for him. But I also realize that GRob did not leave Marrone with a lot of skill talent. So you would think that Marrone's kids who have produced more than they have. To be in year 4 of the Marrone era and have seen nothing from any QB, RB, or WR/TE that he recruited is a little worrisome. Lets hope that this year his kids show what they got, otherwise it will be a loooong season.

 

[Crusty]

What bothers me and makes me nervous about this year is that Marrone's O skill recruits have shown nothing thus far. For comparison

GRob's O skill recruits his first 3 years (apples to apples) combined for:

Passing 205-390 52.6 % 2770 yards 19 TDs 11 INTs
Rushing 272 carries for 1139 yards 4.19 avg 6 TDs
Receiving 223 catches for 3307 yards 28 TDs

Marrone's:

Passing 196-290 2066 67.6% 13 TD 14 INT
Rushing 97-386 3.98 2 TDs
Receiving 60-486 4 TDs


Now I realize that GRob took over a better situation which made recruiting easier for him. But I also realize that GRob did not leave Marrone with a lot of skill talent. So you would think that Marrone's kids who have produced more than they have. To be in year 4 of the Marrone era and have seen nothing from any QB, RB, or WR/TE that he recruited is a little worrisome. Lets hope that this year his kids show what they got, otherwise it will be a loooong season.

Where did you get those passing stats? Whose are they?

 

[kingottoiii]

Where did you get those passing stats? Whose are they?

Majority of them are ARob vs Paulus with a few random passes from backups, RBs, and WRs.

 

[orangenirvana]

I think Gross' expectations are much more realistic and he is behind DM.

What makes you think that? Gross' actions (or lack thereof) seem to counter that.

 

[rrlbees]

Ok so what were the objectives? Turn the program around. I think he's shown he's starting to do that.

The expectations? I think most fans expectations are unrealistic. I think Gross' expectations are much more realistic and he is behind DM.

No idea what he is being measured on. But I guarantee you it isn't "be better than the last guy" which some hang their hats on. It's also probably not as general as turn the program around.

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