Tommy has to start vs NC State.

[Trueblue25]

Just a thought to those saying Tommy was brought in to make the deep passes...

What Tommy was doing is what our offense is designed to be. Reminded me of Bryce Petty at Baylor. That’s not a situational necessity, that’s what our third year offense should look like. Start Eric, sure, Tommy should get the lion’s share now imo.

I think that was more a QB running our offense properly, than it was a QB the defense hadn’t prepared for.

 

[PhatOrange]

UNC is not a terrible team. probably the 2nd best team talent wise we have played all yr.

I agree they're not a terrible team (and they did beat Pitt), but I'd say 3rd best talent wise. FSU is ahead of them imo.

People downplaying UNC haven't been paying attention. They're better than their record suggests.

UNC defensive numbers - yards allowed

Syracuse - 546
Virginia Tech - 375
Miami - 354
Pitt - 402
ECU - 510
Cal - 279

I mean that's pretty good defense considering their record.

 

[upperdeck]

Talent doesn’t always translate to production. Injuries/suspensions/coach outweigh their talent. They are not a good team.

I agree but talent still creates the upside for a team. late game mistakes turn 5-2 in 2-5.


Lou is playing horribly that is far different than UNC making mistakes to lose a game.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

Remember all those threads that said PAY THE MAN NOW? Or IN DINO WE TRUST? I’m gonna trust Babers to do what’s best for the team vs NCSt. He’s got all week to figure it out.

Agreed and it's not a YES or No question. Both can get snaps and as the game unfolds play the hot hand moving forward. It's not ideal but it's the situation that the team has found themselves in and this is what Dino gets paid to do. There are options and also depends on what the staff feels is the best way to attack NC St.

It will be fine and I don't care who starts, just want win 6. Too much agenda here for many. As good as Tommy was the INT was a complete What play, it happens but he will make some costly mistakes as well. I have little doubt that Tommy is a better fit for Dino's O but Dungey still has some good play in him, hurt ir not hurt

 

[IthacaBarrel]

I agree they're not a terrible team (and they did beat Pitt), but I'd say 3rd best talent wise. FSU is ahead of them imo.

People downplaying UNC haven't been paying attention. They're better than their record suggests.

UNC defensive numbers - yards allowed

Syracuse - 546
Virginia Tech - 375
Miami - 354
Pitt - 402
ECU - 510
Cal - 279

I mean that's pretty good defense considering their record.

UNC, Pitt, NC st, Wake were/are all toss up games for this team. Ville should win, BC and ND going to be tough. We still are not going to out talent any ACC team, I just don't see it.

 

[upperdeck]

FSU/UNC are petty equal to me.. it helped that UNC had the best DE out for the game and others injured. FSU might have a bit better LB/DB talent though since UNC has most of the DBs out now.. I like the UNC Wr/RBs better

 

[upperdeck]

If they start TD thats fine, but I think starting ED and then switching if its still not working has more upside then starting TD and then hoping ED can lead a come back that likely requires throwing.

wouldnt mind something like NO is doing where they put the BYU qb in down in the redzone and run more designed draws with ED and let TD do more of the midfield stuff where the field is more spread out.

 

[PhatOrange]

UNC, Pitt, NC st, Wake were/are all toss up games for this team. Ville should win, BC and ND going to be tough

I'd really like them to stick it up McDonald's @zz this weekend.

LVille is the only team I'm putting in the W column and ND in the L column. But I think we can win or lose every game left on the schedule.

 

[sufandu]

Would expand this to Devito between the 20's and Dungey in the red zone. Having a senior in the redzone with his running ability would help to combat some of the exotic coverages you can do in the red zone on a small field. And Dungey's arm strength doesn't become a factor.

Thinking something similar to Chris Leak/Tim Tebow at Florida.

I would condense it to inside the 5. At the 10 or 15 you still need a legitimate threat to pass and TD is gonna hit tight windows better right now. Inside the 5 and I think Dungey's running ability trumps that.

 

[Oakland]

Also, looking at Pitt's record and the scores of their games - they are not nearly as bad as posters here are making them out to be.

UNC is not a terrible team. probably the 2nd best team talent wise we have played all yr.

 

[Oakland]

I think TD should start but it should be noted that ED's completion % is higher than TD's, also, he completed 63% of his passes against Clemson, put SU into a 20-7 lead at the beginning of the second half with UNC, and put up 37 against Pitt in regulation - pretty good for an injured, inaccurate QB.

 

[money3189]

And Devito hasn't had the chance to get starters reps in practice. He hasn't had the chance to get packages and a game plan installed to fit his strengths. He has shown that he can take a comatose Dungey led offense and inject life into it (remember, we had 6 points at halftime against FSU, despite the defense dominating). Imagine how much better positioned Devito will be actually knowing he will be the starter and being mentally prepared for it. Other teams being able to scout and gameplan for him is such a comparatively small thing - mostly because Dungey's deficiencies limit what Syracuse can attempt to do on offense. Much more of the offense is accessible with Devito.

This is seriously flawed thinking, and can be used to justify playing a less productive and less talented older player over a more productive, more talented younger player. It is about the program, not the player. The better, more productive player plays. It is plainly obvious to anyone watching these games that Dungey is severely limiting the offense with his lack of accuracy, poor arm strength, and questionable decision making. If you bench Devito and start Dungey, you signal to the entire team that results don't matter.

Alabama did it. Clemson did it. Notre Dame did it. Syracuse needs to do it.


I went back and re-watched the game last night. Dungey had at least 3 throws that should have been INT's. Two of those were thrown horribly behind the intended target such that the ball popped up in the air. Those almost always end in INT's, but fortunately for Syracuse fell to the ground. Those don't include the perpetually underthrown deep balls, which are always at risk for an INT.

At least Devito is freshman learning from mistakes. He has to go through those growing pains at some point. I'd rather take the redshirt freshman with the quick release and NFL arm who is the future of the program, and has shown the ability to move the ball, over the senior who continues to have accuracy issues, lacks arm strenths (injury influenced or not) and is prone to hero ball.

If we had to play that game over, which QB do you think UNC would want us to start?

You are thinking way too much on my comment. lol Devito is obviously better at this point. Everyone sees it. It's more of a superstition thing. Coaches are weird like that. I guess I am one of them. We won every time ED was pulled for TD. That's all. I would start ED the first play or series, then put TD in if it helps us win lol

edit: this is coaches mentality, so I am being devils advocate on this. Do we know how the team is going to respond when they see their leader who has given it all he got benched? You just dont know what it can do to the team's psyche. Some may want TD and some will still want ED.

 

[gbo]

UNC is not a terrible team. probably the 2nd best team talent wise we have played all yr.

Umm...no

 

[CousCuse]

You are thinking way to much on my comment. lol Devito is obviously better at this point. Everyone sees it. It's more of a superstition thing. Coaches are weird like that. I guess I am one of them. We won every time ED was pulled for TD. That's all. I would start ED the first play or series, then put TD if it helps us win lol

edit: this is coaches mentality, so I am being devils advocate on this. Do we know how the team is going to respond when they see their leader who has given it all he got benched? You just dont know what it can do to the team's psyche. Some may want TD and some will still want ED.

Your a coach. You know how much more being the starter at that level is than just coming in and catching a team a little flat footed and throwing some nice passes. The job is way bigger than that, I think TD is being put in situations where he can do well and is growing into the job, I don't think Dino wants to rush that and have him take some blows to his confidence just yet. He still hasn't played a game where he gets thrashed, which will happen in the ACC.

 

[dollarbill44]

Could be wrong but I thought he was behind the LOS. I know it was ruled a fumble. I thought it was a forward pass.

Even if he was behind the LOS, he was throwing to a downfield OL with no eligible receivers anywhere near, so it would have been intentional grounding, which would have been worse than going down.

 

[Toga]

Even if he was behind the LOS, he was throwing to a downfield OL with no eligible receivers anywhere near, so it would have been intentional grounding, which would have been worse than going down.

That could well be. Just saying the refs erred by calling it a fumble.

 

[ADKDave]

Betting Dungey starts. If first drive is TD he stays in else Devito comes in. After that bring Dungey in for
certain situations to keep NC State off balance. Also think something is wrong with Dungey - ribs, shoulder?

 

[money3189]

Your a coach. You know how much more being the starter at that level is than just coming in and catching a team a little flat footed and throwing some nice passes. The job is way bigger than that, I think TD is being put in situations where he can do well and is growing into the job, I don't think Dino wants to rush that and have him take some blows to his confidence just yet. He still hasn't played a game where he gets thrashed, which will happen in the ACC.

Exactly. There are things that ED can do that TD cant and vice versa. I do know that DIno's offense relies on making down field throws and ED is not able to consistently do that. It comes down to team psyche. How will the players react when a QB change is made? I saw a lot of negative body language when the TD threw the pick. We obviously responded well enough to win the game but those are the things you have to consider. Can this team handle QB rotations? This is still a young team that haven't had much success yet. The staff knows what's best and will make the decisions. What they get paid for.

 

[RandomGuy]

I think that play was the straw that convinced Dino to put in Tommy.

And about 5000 other people, who walked out after that play. One guy was yelling "Let me know when it's 34-20!" On his way out the door.. Exactly how I felt, after that play. Of course, I stayed and enjoyed a seat in the vacated student section for OT.

 

[Upstate]

The ball coming out of Tommy's hand looked the way Nassib would sling it, but he looks to have a better touch on the deep ball, which was always Ryan's bane.

 

[newmexicuse]

I think we are very fortunate to have two starting caliber QBs with complimentary skills. There should be a role for both of them depending upon match-ups and who happens to be hot.

I think it would be a huge mistake to just dump Eric at this point in time. Conversely, we need to expand DiVito's role.

Dino has some juggling to do.

 

[leftytg]

This isn't too different from what Texas faced in 2016. Senior QB Tyrone Swoopes was a dynamic runner and never developed into a consistent, accurate passer. Freshman Shane Beuchele (a true freshman at that), was the much more accurate passer, but lack the experience of Swoopes.

Texas ultimately handed the reigns to Beuchele and installed what they called the 18 wheeler package, where Swoopes was the QB for a heavy power package at the goal line. It was mostly successful as a package near the goal line, and Swoopes ultimately made the transition to tight end in the NFL, and has started getting snaps with the Seahawks.

I could see a similar role with Dungey. He'd be great in such a package because defenses couldn't go zero coverage (or would take a great risk doing so) because Dungey is a genuine passing threat (as opposed to a wildcat set up where some WR who played QB in high school is throwing the ball). Syracuse would be able to do a lot out of such a package, and there would be several times a game to use it. However, Devito needs to be the main QB for the game, outside of specialized goal line/short yardage packages. He needs to be the main guy and allowed to make mistakes as he develops. There needs to be clear communication and clear lines, with the Dungey packages being limited in scope.

 

[007]

From a coaching perspective, there is what looks like the obvious decision (by obvious, I mean to Joe Fan), and then there is the decision that takes into account the totality of the team (things that only the staff can meaningfully measure and have a feel for day after day in practice, in meetings, talking with the players and watching film).

Babers: "Dungey is a warrior. You don't leave your warriors at home when you go to war."

Dungey will play.

 

[Crusty]

From a coaching perspective, there is what looks like the obvious decision (by obvious, I mean to Joe Fan), and then there is the decision that takes into account the totality of the team (things that only the staff can meaningfully measure and have a feel for day after day in practice, in meetings, talking with the players and watching film).

Babers: "Dungey is a warrior. You don't leave your warriors at home when you go to war."

Dungey will play.

Dungey IS a warrior but Tommy IS a winner.

 

[phil77]

I think TD should start but it should be noted that ED's completion % is higher than TD's, also, he completed 63% of his passes against Clemson, put SU into a 20-7 lead at the beginning of the second half with UNC, and put up 37 against Pitt in regulation - pretty good for an injured, inaccurate QB.

View attachment 142379

Against ACC teams

Dungey is 68/127 54% 745 Yards 5.87 Yds/A 1-TD 3-INT

DeVito is 22/35 63% 325 Yards 9.29 Yds/A 4-TD 1-INT