Update: Dungey's injury is not career-ending | Page 5 | Syracusefan.com

Update: Dungey's injury is not career-ending

I could see the school using this guy as a team physician but as the end all be all for disqualifying kids with concussions.

I might go see him if my 5 year old had a cold maybe but to get my brains scrambled and go see him is ludicrous.

Most family physicians would see you for 5 min and tell you to go see a specialist.
 
CuseOnly said:
Show us where it says that anywhere, says everywhere that he is a family physician.
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As posted above, thats what I always thought he was before I even knew he was the SU doctor. Looks like I was clearly wrong.
 
Yegorange said:
Exactly - to "get." Considering our recent 3 concussion rule history and the "probably doubtful" comment, second opinion is likely sought to get clearance - as opposed to confirm.
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I'm pretty sure that the "3 concussion rule" has been exposed as a myth. Decisions are made on a case-by-case basis.
 
I am sure that Dr. Tucker consults with a specialist and the general counsel at SU before rendering a decision to clear or disqualify a player.

The last thing SU wants is Dr. Tucker to clear a player and then have him sustain another injury which results in a permanent disability and a multi million dollar lawsuit.
 
Finwad32 said:
Why would it be??? The chicken little mentality, around Syracuse in general, is astounding.

Is this the mentality people approach their everyday lives with?

He was walking around the sidelines talking 20 minutes later, yeah, pretty good flocking indication that the injury he'd sustained is not "career ending."

I'm amazed that this drags on. I was amazed that he wasn't cleared to play last week, but, that opinion was based on the assumption that he'd practiced the Tuesday prior. Regardless, career ending is absurd.
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Well said, agree 100%
 
CuseLegacy said:
Dr. James Tucker, MD is a Doctor primarily located in Fayetteville, NY. He has 43 years of experience. His specialties include Family Medicine and Obstetrics and Gynecology. Dr. Tucker is affiliated with St Joseph's Hospital Health Center. He speaks English. Dr. James Tucker, MD | Fayetteville, NY | Family Doctor
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There is no way in hell the University is basing its concussion diagnosis on the sole opinion of Dr. Legspreader.

There is definitely another specialist involved in the process.
 
I've watched every game dungey has played at SU, I Luv his attitude and competitiveness, but he needs to do his part to keep himself safe. That hit to "upper body" versus Clemson could have been avoided. It was an option run, he decided to run and had picked up decent yardage and was being tackled by boulware, he should have just went down. If you watch the clip , he looks to his left and sees the guy who delivers the hit coming, but doesn't really get out of harms way, he should have just ducked and got to the ground. The 2nd guy was coming with a head of steam, and looking to hit him high. I do believe teams are targeting him.
 
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RMH44 said:
I'm pretty sure that the "3 concussion rule" has been exposed as a myth. Decisions are made on a case-by-case basis.
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There is a tremendous amount of nuance to the concussion issue, starting with whether (to use some older criteria) if it's grade 1, grade 2 or grade 3. This last injury and one was clearly the least serious and likely grade one based in part on the fact it was indirect head trauma and more whiplash related. The more severe concussions are usually the ones where they'll stick to the 3 strikes you're out.

The fact that he was immediately on the sideline post injury was a good sign in many respects that again makes it likely this one ended up being his most mild of the 3 we know about. So he may play again. So much depends on how he tests post injury with the neurological testing done.

It's not hard settled science as mentioned as some of the later studies suggest it may not actually be the concussions we need to worry about as much but rather the repetitive head hits on every play that may be the biggest concern for problems down the road. Kind of like with boxers.

Complicated stuff no doubt. Some will error on the side of saying it's time to end the career to be hyper cautious and I understand that reaction since as I've mentioned there's no hard and fast rules to this area of injury, while the young will understandably want to throw caution to the wind and keep on playing regardless.

I know I have had at least 3 concussions myself from my playing days but I'm pleased to find myself typing this to you with no signs at age 53 of major concerns, but how I'll be at 63 is a worry and I'll find out and will hope I'm still typing on this board.
 
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you can comment on the SU pass blocking but if anyone is watching games, he has taken very few real hits in the pocket, almost everything has been on the run.. the first one against CM never happens if its not a cheap shot.

the FSU qb has been hit a ton more in the pocket this year than Dungey has in the last 2
 
RMH44 said:
I'm pretty sure that the "3 concussion rule" has been exposed as a myth. Decisions are made on a case-by-case basis.
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The "rule" was mentioned a number of times - including PS (and here?) I think. But yes, it obviously does depend on circumstances/severity. Gray area to be sure. But the latest developments are positive - let's all hope for the best for Eric ... and the program, of course.
 
Ithacaorange said:
I've watched every game dungey has played at SU, I Luv his attitude and competitiveness, but he needs to do his part to keep himself safe. That hit to "upper body" versus Clemson could have been avoided. It was an option run, he decided to run and had picked up decent yardage and was being tackled by boulware, he should have just went down. If you watch the clip , he looks to his left and sees the guy who delivers the hit coming, but doesn't really get out of harms way, he should have just ducked and got to the ground. The 2nd guy was coming with a head of steam, and looking to hit him high. I do believe teams are targeting him.
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Sometimes he's fearless but other times he freezes. This time he saw the hit coming from a long ways off and froze. Whatever his current injury status, that doesn't bode well for his future.
 
kuethstheman said:
Sometimes he's fearless but other times he freezes. This time he saw the hit coming from a long ways off and froze. Whatever his current injury status, that doesn't bode well for his future.
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If you watch that replay, he was not going to avoid danger on this play unless he went into a slide much earlier. He was being targeted from his other side by that steroidal Clemson thug, who was about to deliver a vicious helmet-to-jaw hit just as the second tackler clobbered Eric from the other side.
 
I really dont think it was a dirty hit. The favt is we shouldnt be running read options w our qb that results in essentiallt a dive up the middle. Especially against clemson
 
Cuseregular said:
There is a tremendous amount of nuance to the concussion issue, starting with whether (to use some older criteria) if it's grade 1, grade 2 or grade 3. This last injury and one was clearly the least serious and likely grade one based in part on the fact it was indirect head trauma and more whiplash related. The more severe concussions are usually the ones where they'll stick to the 3 strikes you're out.

The fact that he was immediately on the sideline post injury was a good sign in many respects that again makes it likely this one ended up being his most mild of the 3 we know about. So he may play again. So much depends on how he tests post injury with the neurological testing done.

It's not hard settled science as mentioned as some of the later studies suggest it may not actually be the concussions we need to worry about as much but rather the repetitive head hits on every play that may be the biggest concern for problems down the road. Kind of like with boxers.

Complicated stuff no doubt. Some will error on the side of saying it's time to end the career to be hyper cautious and I understand that reaction since as I've mentioned there's no hard and fast rules to this area of injury, while the young will understandably want to throw caution to the wind and keep on playing regardless.

I know I have had at least 3 concussions myself from my playing days but I'm pleased to find myself typing this to you with no signs at age 53 of major concerns, but how I'll be at 63 is a worry and I'll find out and will hope I'm still typing on this board.
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The one thing that sticks out to me... We both agree, there's no hard and fast rule when it comes to these types of injuries, yet, that's exactly the way SU diagnoses them.

If the worst imagineable scenario happened here, ED being DQ'd, the effects would be far more reaching than the loss of our starting QB. Yes, we'd lose the best thing that's happened to this football team in quite some time, IMO, but I think you'd lose three fold that.

What would Babers reaction be? I know how I'd feel about it as a coach trying to build a program. I'd go somewhere that gave me the best chance to succeed, somewhere that archaic rules didn't govern my professional well-being. And that wouldn't be Syracuse.

I'm as die-hard a fan as they come, but, tell me this wouldn't be a devastating punch to the gut? I've sat through arguably the best and worst this program has had to offer, and, it would be hard for me to muster the same enthusiasm. At least for the foreseeable future.

Let me be crystal clear, I'm scared to death of concussions. Very progressive when it comes to player safety. BUT, when you deny somebody's fundamental right to choose to play, or vote or go into the military... I will always vehemenently disagree.
 
Finwad32 said:
The one thing that sticks out to me... We both agree, there's no hard and fast rule when it comes to these types of injuries, yet, that's exactly the way SU diagnoses them.

If the worst imagineable scenario happened here, ED being DQ'd, the effects would be far more reaching than the loss of our starting QB. Yes, we'd lose the best thing that's happened to this football team in quite some time, IMO, but I think you'd lose three fold that.

What would Babers reaction be? I know how I'd feel about it as a coach trying to build a program. I'd go somewhere that gave me the best chance to succeed, somewhere that archaic rules didn't govern my professional well-being. And that wouldn't be Syracuse.

I'm as die-hard a fan as they come, but, tell me this wouldn't be a devastating punch to the gut? I've sat through arguably the best and worst this program has had to offer, and, it would be hard for me to muster the same enthusiasm. At least for the foreseeable future.

Let me be crystal clear, I'm scared to death of concussions. Very progressive when it comes to player safety. BUT, when you deny somebody's fundamental right to choose to play, or vote or go into the military... I will always vehemenently disagree.
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Agree 100%, well said. I just hate the rush to judgement on either end as well. Lets the kid gather all the facts, etc and if he and his family decide to play than so be it. I just hate how we flip the out after every hit he takes, if somehow the gameplan is to include him not being tackled or running the ball- AT ALL. The play at Clemson is a football play, you aren't going to get kids like Dungey to play any other way, it's not the way they play the game. There will always be risk

I have been in the construction industry for 25 years, somehow people like to believe that our business is as safe as ever and it is in many ways, but you know what no matter how you defend against it people still get hurt. It happens no matter what you do. Somehow, people on the outside will never understand that, it's a dangerous business. There are zero guarantees despite what owners, docs, safety professionals, insurance people or attorneys will tell you.
 
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I think the good 'ol family doctor can hurt this program from a perception perspective with parents and recruits more than most anything. And whether or not a coach and player will think he is getting a fair shake from the medical staff.

We may look back on this and be the leader in progressive thinking but I don't think so.
 
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Finwad32 said:
The one thing that sticks out to me... We both agree, there's no hard and fast rule when it comes to these types of injuries, yet, that's exactly the way SU diagnoses them.

If the worst imagineable scenario happened here, ED being DQ'd, the effects would be far more reaching than the loss of our starting QB. Yes, we'd lose the best thing that's happened to this football team in quite some time, IMO, but I think you'd lose three fold that.

What would Babers reaction be? I know how I'd feel about it as a coach trying to build a program. I'd go somewhere that gave me the best chance to succeed, somewhere that archaic rules didn't govern my professional well-being. And that wouldn't be Syracuse.

I'm as die-hard a fan as they come, but, tell me this wouldn't be a devastating punch to the gut? I've sat through arguably the best and worst this program has had to offer, and, it would be hard for me to muster the same enthusiasm. At least for the foreseeable future.

Let me be crystal clear, I'm scared to death of concussions. Very progressive when it comes to player safety. BUT, when you deny somebody's fundamental right to choose to play, or vote or go into the military... I will always vehemenently disagree.
Expand...
there is no fundamental right to play football. There is no fundamental right to go into the military. The military frequently disqualifies people for health related reasons.

I know you put the disclaimer in your post that you are very progressive when it comes to player safety, but the rest of your post undermines your assertion. You are more worried about Babers' reaction and how hard it would be for a fan than you are for Dungey's long term health. To one who is truly "progressive" about player safety, a coach's or fan's feeling of frustration at losing a good player never even enters the discussion.

We're all fans here of a barbaric sport. The last few decades have brought on steroids, hgh, and other ped's such that players are unnaturally big and fast, to a degree never seen on the planet. There is a strong team culture of having to play through injuries, and of hitting the other team as hard - and as debilitating - as possible, all while the fan lauds the toughness and ooohs and aaahhs at the huge hits. But now enough time is passing where we're seeing the after effects on the players and what the sport does to them, and it is horrifying. A player shouldn't have to give up decades of life expectancy and basic quality of life to entertain us. Yet, here I am watching Syracuse every Saturday and watching the NFL on Sunday. I have to reconcile that. We all have to reconcile that.

I'm not a doctor and I have no opinion on what is right for Dungey. I don't know enough. But I do want Dungey to be able to play with his grandkids. There is a small, but growing, part of me that wants him to quit before it is too late. Sometimes I'm ashamed at how small of a part of me that is.

I am very closely connected with the medical staff at a Big 12 school. The team doctor there just had to medically disquality a student athlete on the rowing team for persistently having too low of a BMI (anorexia issues). It was gut wrenching, but it was in the student athlete's best interest. Things like this happen frequently across all sports, and the doctors play a very important role in looking out for the long term best interest of their student athletes, a subset of people who almost by definition are very competitive and terrible at understanding risk. It most definitely is not a violation of anyone's "fundamental right".
 
upperdeck said:
you can comment on the SU pass blocking but if anyone is watching games, he has taken very few real hits in the pocket, almost everything has been on the run.. the first one against CM never happens if its not a cheap shot.

the FSU qb has been hit a ton more in the pocket this year than Dungey has in the last 2
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The CMU hit still angers me
 
leftytg said:
there is no fundamental right to play football. There is no fundamental right to go into the military. The military frequently disqualifies people for health related reasons.

I know you put the disclaimer in your post that you are very progressive when it comes to player safety, but the rest of your post undermines your assertion. You are more worried about Babers' reaction and how hard it would be for a fan than you are for Dungey's long term health. To one who is truly "progressive" about player safety, a coach's or fan's feeling of frustration at losing a good player never even enters the discussion.

We're all fans here of a barbaric sport. The last few decades have brought on steroids, hgh, and other ped's such that players are unnaturally big and fast, to a degree never seen on the planet. There is a strong team culture of having to play through injuries, and of hitting the other team as hard - and as debilitating - as possible, all while the fan lauds the toughness and ooohs and aaahhs at the huge hits. But now enough time is passing where we're seeing the after effects on the players and what the sport does to them, and it is horrifying. A player shouldn't have to give up decades of life expectancy and basic quality of life to entertain us. Yet, here I am watching Syracuse every Saturday and watching the NFL on Sunday. I have to reconcile that. We all have to reconcile that.

I'm not a doctor and I have no opinion on what is right for Dungey. I don't know enough. But I do want Dungey to be able to play with his grandkids. There is a small, but growing, part of me that wants him to quit before it is too late. Sometimes I'm ashamed at how small of a part of me that is.

I am very closely connected with the medical staff at a Big 12 school. The team doctor there just had to medically disquality a student athlete on the rowing team for persistently having too low of a BMI (anorexia issues). It was gut wrenching, but it was in the student athlete's best interest. Things like this happen frequently across all sports, and the doctors play a very important role in looking out for the long term best interest of their student athletes, a subset of people who almost by definition are very competitive and terrible at understanding risk. It most definitely is not a violation of anyone's "fundamental right".
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There is a fundamental right when you have the ability to do so. The military disqualifies not for your health, but, because you could potentially harm the production of the unit. Health is their excuse to be selective and to protect the productivity of the military.

My entire post was meant to say this is DUNGEY's decision, not a gyno from Fayetteville.

It's Eric's decision. And, if he's disqualified here, he'll play elsewhere. Because, he's earned the right to do so.
 
Cuseregular said:
I wish nothing but ill will on Mitch Stanizak.
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Mitch and his coach who I believe instructed his players to take Dungey out - precisely because the kid was killing them.

I also believe that that has been the strategy ever since CMU - take out Dungey.

I was incensed when the kid from ND targeted him in the head as Eric was sliding after a short run. The ND player was thrown out of the game, but I believe he was acting under the instructions of Brian Kelly.

I believe the same thing happened at Clemson.

I don't believe it's happenstance that Eric - and none of our other QBs - takes so many shots to the head - I believe it's strategy and it sickens me.
 
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