We need to go back to the big east | Page 4 | Syracusefan.com

We need to go back to the big east

There are 365 D1 BBall programs and only 68 P4s. How do the other nearly 300 schools fund their sports? It is hard to take some of this fanbase seriously when they are so bad at math.

WOW. i'd didn't realize that there were no D1 teams able to fund sports outside of the ACC !
thought maybe the revenue from that huge dome and nation leading attendance might help a bit ...


You guys are doing a phenomenal job not answering the key question:

WHAT HAPPENS TO THE DOME WHEN MAJOR (P4) FOOTBALL IS GONE?

No other D1 school has the situation that Syracuse has. There is no comp.
 
While I'll preface this by saying financially we cant go back, but moving to the ACC is the worst thing that could have happened to the bball program. We had an identity in the Big East, we had a rivalry that was the second biggest rivalry in the sport, we knew who we were. In the ACC we're just another middling-to-bad program that has no identity.

Bingo. Just playing in the big east tournament every year was HUGE. Those games would be the lead story on sportscenter. Syracuse-georgetown or syracuse-uconn in the big east tourny were as big as any games in the country outside of duke-unc. Those games were literally as loud as knick playoff games. We havent had anything close to that since the games against duke our 1st acc year.
 
If SU was like 99% of the other schools in the northeast that do not attempt to play high end college
football, which is bascially anybody other than (and note it's "attempt", not well or not well)

SU, BC, Army, Buffalo, Pitt, Penn St, Temple, Rutgers, UConn, UMass, Ivy League?, Albany, Stonybrook

they could play anywhere they wanted to for hoops. But with something other than a 12,000 seat
football stadium, they do need to be somewhere that football matters. That football is the way it
is sucks, not everyone cares about the little ten schools or most of the sec ones, and i think expanding
college football playoffs to get more of those teams in, and in doing so making college kids play
an nfl season's worth of games, is stupid.
 
I don’t see why people say that football is a necessity for basketball. What do we need to run a basketball program? In theory we need maybe $5 million annually for coaches and the full $20.5 million for NIL. $25.5 million across 16 home games is just under $1.6 million per game. You cover that at just under $80 per ticket on average at an average crowd of 20,000, and hopefully use merch and concessions to pay for most of the stadium staff. At that point your TV revenue and everything past $80 per ticket or 20,000 per game you can muster is your profit.

Obviously there’s more to it than that, but I don’t think a thriving basketball program in CNY will be unable to carry itself financially. There’s so much money on the table for a thriving basketball program.
 
I dont know all the ins and outs, but i know the move was all about football and money. But leaving the acc destroyed syracuse basketball. We had a good regular season the first acc year, and a miracle final 4 run in 2016. But other than that just a complete and utter disaster.

We’re an east coast team. We have a huge alumni/fan base in the tri state area. What games can we go to??? Nova in philly? Nope. Seton hall in newark? Nope. St johns at the garden? Nope. Jimmy v classic at the garden? Nope. Big east tournament at the garden? Nope.

I cant help but think leaving the big east affected recruiting. We just dont belong in the acc. We had a legacy in the big east. We had TRADITION. That matters. Now we got nothing.

This really sux. Even if we stunk, if we were playing providence and villanova and st johns and uconn and seton hall in february id still watch. Big east tournament id still watch. But virginia? Cal? SMU???? Duke unc ohh great we’ll lose by 30. Wake forest lol. Wheres the acc tournament this year? Who knows and who cares

Im so disgusted. I loved syracuse basketball i loved the big east. And i miss both terribly. NOW GET OFF MY LAWN!!!
The problem is that you’re advancing a destructive narrative that we can’t be good again unless we’re in the Big East. And that’s not a good look and not true. A good proven coach can make the program good again.
 
You guys are doing a phenomenal job not answering the key question:

WHAT HAPPENS TO THE DOME WHEN MAJOR (P4) FOOTBALL IS GONE?

No other D1 school has the situation that Syracuse has. There is no comp.
I have questioned the attendance too when/if we get bounced from the big boy football table. How many fans show for a home schedule of Duke, Wake, BC, Colgate and UCONN playing for a spot in the second or third biggest championship in football?
 
Everyone points to the success that UCONN and Villanova have had winning 5 NCAA Tournaments since we left for the ACC. I will agree that it annoys me the success UCONN has had while Syracuse has floundered but there is no guarantee we would be any better off in The Big East. I posted earlier that played out many of the issues that have contributed to the failures on the court since joining the ACC. We would still have those same issues plus significantly less money. Had we stayed in The Big East we could just as easily fallen off like Georgetown and without the money needed to correct things.

If anything the fate was sealed when The Big East was formed. Had we instead joined the Joe Paterno proposed Eastern Conference I think things might have been different. An all sports conference with Syracuse, Penn State, Pitt, BC, Rutgers, WVU, Temple, MD, and VT would have been a solid foundation. When it came time to expand there would have been opportunities to expand to add schools from a pool of Army, Navy, FSU, ECU, Louisville, Miami, and Memphis. Without the associate membership to The Big East and ACC it may have forced ND to join a conference.
 
im so sick of seeing uconn fans talking about syracuse leaving the big east

where did you guys go from 2013-2020? Obviously still in the big east... right?
 
I don’t see why people say that football is a necessity for basketball. What do we need to run a basketball program? In theory we need maybe $5 million annually for coaches and the full $20.5 million for NIL. $25.5 million across 16 home games is just under $1.6 million per game. You cover that at just under $80 per ticket on average at an average crowd of 20,000, and hopefully use merch and concessions to pay for most of the stadium staff. At that point your TV revenue and everything past $80 per ticket or 20,000 per game you can muster is your profit.

Obviously there’s more to it than that, but I don’t think a thriving basketball program in CNY will be unable to carry itself financially. There’s so much money on the table for a thriving basketball program.

Mostly because we use the Dome for multiple sports but the only one that needs the capacity is football. The Dome is a liability and not an asset if there’s not adequate revenue generating activities there which cannot be done elsewhere.

If Syracuse isn’t in a major FBS conference, it cannot fund football - we see that with UConn. UConn as a public university has a lot more runway to lose money…but even at that they need to either drop football, drop to FCS, or get to a power conference eventually. We’d probably quickly drop to FCS, possibly drop football completely. At that point maintaining the Dome is an insanely bad business decision - it HAS to go. The absolute best case is to sell the land to ESF for immediate cash…no idea if that’s possible but I’m very confident NYS would jump at buying that plot of land.

The right question is not “can basketball at Syracuse succeed without football”. The correct question is “can basketball succeed at Syracuse without the Dome”. Since I’m skeptical in the scenario above that Syracuse would invest in a new basketball arena immediately, they’d probably look to play in the War Memorial until there was proof of concept that basketball outside the Dome was profitable enough to justify. A lot of the “we should leave the ACC!” is based on the idea Syracuse would use the Dome for football with crowds of 10,000 and there’s no negative impact to basketball as a result. I believe that is absolutely a flawed assumption which is certainly wrong.
 
There are many layers here. On the football front, other than ND and USC, with the landscape transforming into what it has become seemingly overnight, private schools have never been more, let's just say, challenged, to compete at the level it takes nowadays. At least to be a player, and a consistent one at that.

For a school such as Syracuse University, with its somewhat rich history, this is such a tough pill to swallow. At least prior to the landscape being what is now is, there was this hope that if the powers that be would just make a larger commitment, etc. SU could get back to some of those 'glory days' and not just on a one off basis.

Hoops, IMO, and its fall from grace, also primarily falls on the powers that be that allowed and enabled its HOF coach to cause such self destruction to its golden goose. Shameful and regrettable aren't strong enough sentiments. Perhaps, willful, wanton gross negligence is more in line.

SU hoops nowadays is, and has been for a while now, circled on the map by our opponents counting W's vs. one of an given L, or one of huge significance, confidence building, marquee victory, etc. if somehow it's pulled off. Unfortunately, we've become the Seton Hall's, Providence's, BC's and the likes, far removed from being "Beasts of the East." Quite sombering.

Somewhat connecting the dots here...what are the benefits of Syracuse University remaining a private vs. public school, at least from a revenue sports standpoint? Additionally, Syracuse's academic standing, though respectable, has been passed by several public schools, ranking lower than some of the SEC schools (Florida, Texas, Georgia, A&M) where shade is thrown at the conference is that regard. Not to mention, that Flagship school in NJ that folks take so much pleasure in mocking, etc. is currently ranked at 42, some 33 spots ahead of Syracuse.
 
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I dont know all the ins and outs, but i know the move was all about football and money. But leaving the acc destroyed syracuse basketball. We had a good regular season the first acc year, and a miracle final 4 run in 2016. But other than that just a complete and utter disaster.

We’re an east coast team. We have a huge alumni/fan base in the tri state area. What games can we go to??? Nova in philly? Nope. Seton hall in newark? Nope. St johns at the garden? Nope. Jimmy v classic at the garden? Nope. Big east tournament at the garden? Nope.

I cant help but think leaving the big east affected recruiting. We just dont belong in the acc. We had a legacy in the big east. We had TRADITION. That matters. Now we got nothing.

This really sux. Even if we stunk, if we were playing providence and villanova and st johns and uconn and seton hall in february id still watch. Big east tournament id still watch. But virginia? Cal? SMU???? Duke unc ohh great we’ll lose by 30. Wake forest lol. Wheres the acc tournament this year? Who knows and who cares

Im so disgusted. I loved syracuse basketball i loved the big east. And i miss both terribly. NOW GET OFF MY LAWN!!!

Mood Log Off GIF
 
Going back isn’t an option, and would be a disaster. There’s no way to make football viable outside of a conference. Football not being viable means the Dome is a white elephant - a building in a prime real estate area not being used effectively which costs a boatload to maintain. Even if we don’t demo the Dome, drop football, and move basketball to an arena (probably off campus…) - the financial hemorrhaging the loss of football revenues would create would mean we didn’t have the money to compete in basketball.

If we want to kill basketball (and all sports) completely and totally dead - moving back to the Big East is a fantastic first step. It blows my mind how many myopic people still don’t realize this.
Post of the year
 
There is too much overreaction going on here. Sure, the Big East is a better fit for basketball than the ACC, but the problems with Syracuse basketball are the retirement of a Hall of Fame coach who stayed too long and the hiring of his assistant coach that was not ready for the job.

Syracuse has an incredible fan base with great attendance, a winning history, plenty of recruits within 5 hours of campus,... The first step to recovery: Hire a PROVEN (!) winning head coach even if he has no ties to Syracuse. The second step is to reconnect with the NYC area fanbase by scheduling at least 1 game per season at MSG (NOT Barclays!). The third step is play some OOC games with traditional BE rivals like Georgetown, UConn, St. John's, Villanova, Providence. The fourth step is as you begin to win again, attendance will go up and boosters will want to invest in the program. Capitalize on winning.
 
I get the financial side. But UConn is better in football and basketball now. So through the trees is better success apparently

They also lose $30-50MM/yr (which is not a situation Syracuse can handle) and are only willing to do that in the hopes they eventually get an invite to join a power conference. And they need to bleed red for now in order to be successful in the sports that allow them a shot at getting the hell out of the Big East. Syracuse would need to focus primarily on a balanced budget - and would not see success as a result.

So they know they are on a sinking ship and are working like heck to get off it - and you’re looking at the short term results of that Herculean effort and convincing yourself that jumping on the sinking ship is a great idea. All that would happen is Syracuse would immediately sink because we could not even afford the buckets needed to keep bailing like madmen like UConn is doing right now.
 
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Well considering Syracuse has won the last six meetings in football not sure you can make that case. UConn is 28-35 in the five years they have played as an Independent with exactly 3 P4 wins. Syracuse is slightly better overall at 32-31 against a much more difficult schedule with 16 P4 wins.
I get the financial side. But UConn is better in football and basketball now. So through the trees is better success apparently
 
In the ACC we cannot recruit the way we did in the Big East.
I'm tired of this false narrative. Our recruiting didn't fall off as a result of being in the ACC. We were recruiting against the ACC when we were in the Big East and we did just fine. We pulled guys from Cali, Michigan, Delmarva, Canada going back decades. The problem was NCAA sanctions and a philosophy shift, loss of our lead recruiter, and throw in a little nepotism and old man cantankerism.
 

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