were better with howard in

[jgeorge322]

These comparisons don't really matter. It is not a game of horse, an attempt is an attempt. Cooney's eFG is 44.4%, Howard's is 30.4%. Cooney's True Shooting % (which accounts for free throws) is 49%, Howard's is 34%.

A shot from Cooney is just more valuable than one from Howard.

The argument for howard does not stem from his shooting prowess. Also, these two play different positions. Im thinking howard should get a combo of mal's time and roberson/colemans to an extent.

 

[NineOneSeven]

These comparisons don't really matter. It is not a game of horse, an attempt is an attempt. Cooney's eFG is 44.4%, Howard's is 30.4%. Cooney's True Shooting % (which accounts for free throws) is 49%, Howard's is 34%.

A shot from Cooney is just more valuable than one from Howard.

Could have fooled me with some of the shots Trevor takes

 

[pulaski74]

Only it's nothing like 7 of 100. It's 1 of 15.

Stats are fun. They offer ammunition for whatever agenda you're looking to push.

uh, Stat guys

 

[CorduroyG]

Cooney providing "spacing" is so silly. I know boeheim says the same thing but i dont agree, especially this year with multiple 3 point threats. Its like even if cooney shoots 1-10 hes still valuable cuz of spacing. You guys act like an entire defense's gameplan is based on shutting down cooney. He gets multiple open looks a game, and misses alot more of those than he makes. Hes an average shooter , just cuz hes white doesnt mean teams think hes jj redick.

Cooney is a SHOOTING guard. Hes not good off the bounce. Hes not a good finisher. When he struggles shooting its not like hes creating for others or grabbing 10 boards or getting double teamed leaving guys wide open for dunks.

 

[Ghost]

These comparisons don't really matter. It is not a game of horse, an attempt is an attempt. Cooney's eFG is 44.4%, Howard's is 30.4%. Cooney's True Shooting % (which accounts for free throws) is 49%, Howard's is 34%.

A shot from Cooney is just more valuable than one from Howard.

I concur to an extent. TC is a far better scorer, my contention is that we're just sort of dismissing assists, other things in relation to production... ..i also think if Howard got more minutes, JB would lift the red light and we'd have a more accurate representation of his scoring acumen. Which may be worse than his current numbers, who knows, that's just guesswork, eye test stuff. It's always been deemed a fair argument that as options increased on offense TC's offense would improve dramatically, not sure why arguments about Howard's offense are dismissed so readily.

 

[FrancoPizza]

Cooney's one-dimensional reputation is one of the biggest reasons we no longer make any attempt at a fast break, and I will not miss that at all next year. Instead of pushing for a higher percentage shot at the rim, we put our blinkers on and go into funeral procession mode.

If JB is in any way instructing them to slow down, and this continues next year with Battle, I will blow a fuse.

 

[realorange]

Cooney's one-dimensional reputation is one of the biggest reasons we no longer make any attempt at a fast break, and I will not miss that at all next year. Instead of pushing for a higher percentage shot at the rim, we put our blinkers on and go into funeral procession mode.

If JB is in any way instructing them to slow down, and this continues next year with Battle, I will blow a fuse.

Promise?

 

[Forloveoforange]

Maybe its more than who helps us win. Maybe as Syracuse basketball fans, we care how we win, or how we play. And it may be somewhat subconscious. But I think we just like to watch Franklin Howard's style. It is refreshing, and why we like to watch Syracuse basketball. Its not whether you win or lose, its how you play the game. And of course, since its pleasing, we do think that Franklin Howard will help us win.

And since we like to look to the future, we think that Franklin will become a great basketball player with experience.

Although I thought Brandon Triche maybe played a bit too much when we had Dion Waiters, I knew that we would miss Triche when he was gone. I think we're still missing Triche, the winningest Syracuse basketball player, I believe.

 

[br801]

Cooney's one-dimensional reputation is one of the biggest reasons we no longer make any attempt at a fast break, and I will not miss that at all next year. Instead of pushing for a higher percentage shot at the rim, we put our blinkers on and go into funeral procession mode.

If JB is in any way instructing them to slow down, and this continues next year with Battle, I will blow a fuse.

Why recent Syracuse teams have infrequently pushed the ball in transition has more to do with the skill sets of its lead guards (Ennis, Joseph and Gbinije), the absence of talented combo guards (like Waiters and Triche) and weak defensive rebounding, and very little to do with Trevor Cooney.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Why recent Syracuse teams have infrequently pushed the ball in transition has more to do with the skill sets of its lead guards (Ennis, Joseph and Gbinije), the absence of talented combo guards (like Waiters and Triche) and weak defensive rebounding, and very little to do with Trevor Cooney.

The ACC is a methodical conference. 9 teams are rated in the bottom 150 of tempo. 5 in the bottom 50. Virginia is the slowest. I think people had misconceptions that the ACC is an up and down conference. That's really only the case if you are UNC. Everybody else plays deliberate offense for the most part, even Duke.

 

[OttoMets]

Why recent Syracuse teams have infrequently pushed the ball in transition has more to do with the skill sets of its lead guards (Ennis, Joseph and Gbinije), the absence of talented combo guards (like Waiters and Triche) and weak defensive rebounding, and very little to do with Trevor Cooney.

It's true that those three factors have contributed to our missing transition game. But of course the absence of talented combo guards and the presence of Trevor Cooney have a lot to do with each other.

 

[br801]

It's true that those three factors have contributed to our missing transition game. But of course the absence of talented combo guards and the presence of Trevor Cooney have a lot to do with each other.

I guess we can blame him for not being Waiters or Triche, but merely a more traditional shooting guard.

 

[Ward]

Why recent Syracuse teams have infrequently pushed the ball in transition has more to do with the skill sets of its lead guards (Ennis, Joseph and Gbinije), the absence of talented combo guards (like Waiters and Triche) and weak defensive rebounding, and very little to do with Trevor Cooney.

I disagree. Ennis and Gbinije are both very capable of leading the break and getting things quickly out in transition but what hurts is when we have to waste time looking for them because they were/are the only ones who can lead the break. We were not a good defensive rebounding team in '11-12 but still got out and ran plenty.

Also, saying it is due to the absence of talented combo guards then saying it has little to do with Cooney is kinda funny and ironic to come from a Cooney fan. Cooney isn't a combo guard and can't lead the break like our past combo guards could. That hurts our transition game. Not a bash on him - just identifying a skill that isn't strong for him and how it impacts the team.

 

[OttoMets]

I guess we can blame him for not being Waiters or Triche, but merely a more traditional shooting guard.

On that I'll disagree with both counts (of course you're being facetious). Dopey to blame the player for being less talented than his predecessors; understandable to pinpoint one of the reasons we don't run: because the three-year starting shooting guard never did develop the skills that Syracuse prefers its shooting guards to have. (Traditional shooting guards do, after all, take the ball to the rim, make layups with regularity, and handle and distribute the ball productively on the break.)

 

[OttoMets]

...

Also, saying it is due to the absence of talented combo guards then saying it has little to do with Cooney is kinda funny and ironic to come from a Cooney fan. Cooney isn't a combo guard and can't lead the break like our past combo guards could. That hurts our transition game. Not a bash on him - just identifying a skill that isn't strong for him and how it impacts the team.

Yes.

 

[br801]

I disagree. Ennis and Gbinije are both very capable of leading the break and getting things quickly out in transition but what hurts is when we have to waste time looking for them because they were/are the only ones who can lead the break. We were not a good defensive rebounding team in '11-12 but still got out and ran plenty.

Also, saying it is due to the absence of talented combo guards then saying it has little to do with Cooney is kinda funny and ironic to come from a Cooney fan. Cooney isn't a combo guard and can't lead the break like our past combo guards could. That hurts our transition game. Not a bash on him - just identifying a skill that isn't strong for him and how it impacts the team.

Ennis and Gbinije were/are no where near guys like Scoop, Triche, Waiters and MCW in terms of transition abilities.

And you make it sound like being a Cooney fan is somehow a bad thing. Actually, I'm a fan of all of these guys, and Syracuse basketball. Not sure about some of the others who post here.

 

[SoBeCuse]

I guess we can blame him for not being Waiters or Triche, but merely a more traditional shooting guard.

Right. He is what he is and is simply trying to do more than what he is capable of, imo. If we had more guys who could take it to the rim/put it on the floor with blow by ability then Cooney would be great just lurking around the 3 point line. It's usually a comedy of errors when Cooney tries to create too much. He almost always will never pass as well if he tries to drive. We really miss a guy like Triche/Waiters. We'll have more balance next season and a better situation with the guards/ballhandling. I'm still in the camp that believes too much Howard on the floor right now would be a liability both offensively and defensively. I think his ballhandling and speed is pretty average right now. His passing and court vision is pretty great for a young kid. There were times though against NCSU where Howard was picking up his dribble too much and was ineffective vs the hedging from Anya. I like his upside for sure but not sure he's curently ready for more minutes than what JB is giving him.

 

[FrancoPizza]

Ennis and Gbinije were/are no where near guys like Scoop, Triche, Waiters and MCW in terms of transition abilities..

Scoop, Triche, Waiters, MCW, Flynn, etc... they all had a strong handle and were good-to-great finishers. Those kinds of players are comfortable with chaos... and even thrive in it. The biggest key to a fast break (assuming the outlet is established) is that the guard does not hesitate to advance once he gets the ball. Even when G attempts to go, he tends to wait for traffic to clear out before pushing it.

And honestly, even if Cooney was an elite shooter, the percentages still favor a high percentage layup if you can take it to the rack and/or draw a foul. A fast break doesn't necessarily have to lead to an easy basket for it to be worthwhile. At the very least pushing it towards the paint and then pulling out if it's not there at least puts pressure on the defense to rotate back. If we ever re-establish our fast-break abilities that can make the opponent think twice about sending everyone to offensive rebound... which would make our rebounding out of the zone a little easier.

 

[Cusefannotindc]

I concur to an extent. TC is a far better scorer, my contention is that we're just sort of dismissing assists, other things in relation to production... ..i also think if Howard got more minutes, JB would lift the red light and we'd have a more accurate representation of his scoring acumen. Which may be worse than his current numbers, who knows, that's just guesswork, eye test stuff. It's always been deemed a fair argument that as options increased on offense TC's offense would improve dramatically, not sure why arguments about Howard's offense are dismissed so readily.

We certainly would, but the fact that Howard has made 3 FGs not classified At the Rim, it seems like we already have a pretty good idea. At this point I think the lineup that would be best for Howard would be him with Cooney/Gbinije/Richardson/Lydon, the spacing would give him plenty of room to drive and it would be very difficult for a help defender to move in on him. On the other hand, that lineup would have serious issues on the glass. I also think he could excel with a big with a strong post up game like Arinze or Rick Jackson and spacing.

 

[NineOneSeven]

We certainly would, but the fact that Howard has made 3 FGs not classified At the Rim, it seems like we already have a pretty good idea. At this point I think the lineup that would be best for Howard would be him with Cooney/Gbinije/Richardson/Lydon, the spacing would give him plenty of room to drive and it would be very difficult for a help defender to move in on him. On the other hand, that lineup would have serious issues on the glass. I also think he could excel with a big with a strong post up game like Arinze or Rick Jackson and spacing.

That's a villanova late 00s lineup