What I expect at this point…

[heresjohnny88]

Because there is no evidence to support he will be a good coach at all. No recruiting evidence, no in game coaching evidence, no practice coaching evidence, no player development evidence just nothing that says Red will be a good head coach. Will he be who knows that is a major gamble our program shouldn't be taking after a 9 year decline and that is the point of people wanting to do a national search and hire a person with experience.

no recruiting evidence?

 

[Scooch]

Oh I think 4 years is very generous.

The first two years unless it's a complete dumpster fire can only help him.

By year three we need to be off the bubble, safely in the tournament, and trending back up.

If we're not, we should move on.

Yep. 3 years. That's it. If we're not back in the top 25 and in the tourney by year 3 then we need to move on. Success needs to be unquestionable by year 3. Undebatable.

Hoops ain't football.

 

[SU91]

Hopkins also makes me worry about JB’s coaching tree and its lack of success. In general, he doesn’t really even have a tree.

 

[Scotch]

I'm not challenging your assessment.

I want to know what is a modern defensive strategy?

How would you describe that?

Ball pressure.

 

[721Comstock]

Hopkins also makes me worry about JB’s coaching tree and its lack of success. In general, he doesn’t really even have a tree.

Rick Pitino says Hi!

 

[PhatOrange]

I think Smart would kill it in the ACC. Texas wasn't a great fit for him culturally. He seems like an east coast/city guy.

My thoughts to

 

[Chip]

Yep. 3 years. That's it. If we're not back in the top 25 and in the tourney by year 3 then we need to move on. Success needs to be unquestionable by year 3. Undebatable.

Hoops ain't football.

You're right, it's not football. Which is why I think they'll pull the plug after 2 if it clearly isn't working.

It's hardly player development at all. Maybe more so than normal if you get most of this year's freshmen to stick around. But it's more about what talent can you convince to come here, and can you manage the game with them.

If it pops early, like it did with Hopkins at UW, then they'll be patient. If not, I'd be shocked if they stuck it out for 3 years.

EDIT: 2 years is also enough for JB looming over the program to dissipate, for whatever that's worth. He'll be low 80s, could start aging a little quicker when the one thing he's done for 47 years (that kept him quite active) is taken away from him.

 

[MSOrange]

It's important to remember that you only have one opportunity to truly hire from within in a scenario like this, and it is imperative not to catastrophically damage the alumni, ex-player and booster support of the program.

I 100% understand the desire to hire from outside. One can make a very compelling case why that's the route we should take.

On the other hand, it is highly likely a hire like that will alienate a large portion of the folks I mentioned. And if that guy doesn't succeed immediately, there's no stuffing the genie of discontent back in the bottle.

If Autry fails then you can tell those folks that we tried, it didn't work, and now we gotta go outside the family. I don't worry at all about the program becoming unsalvageable. A couple bad years won't erase all of the advantages this program has.

Like I said, you can find fault with an internal hire. But you can't ignore the ramifications of going outside either. Both have downsides.

Very good point that I wanted to make and you said much better than I would have. Basically there's politics involved in these decisions also.

 

[Scooch]

You're right, it's not football. Which is why I think they'll pull the plug after 2 if it clearly isn't working.

It's hardly player development at all. Maybe more so than normal if you get most of this year's freshment to stick around. But it's more about what talent can you convince to come here, and can you manage the game with them.

If it pops early, like it did with Hopkins at UW, then they'll be patient. If not, I'd be shocked if they stuck it out for 3 years.

Fair. It probably depends on what those 2 years look like. If they're losing seasons, HS recruiting hasn't meaningfully improved and we bust in the portal... then yeah, he could easily be gonzo.

 

[Scooch]

Very good point that I wanted to make and you said much better than I would have. Basically there's politics involved in these decisions also.

You would have made the point equally as well, and you likely have far fewer people ignoring you.

 

[PhatOrange]

Couple things-

I know firsthand Shaka is very happy where he is- mentioned it separately.

Drew has a title and a program that is above SU and clearly right now. Zero reason for him to consider leaving.

$EC on the other two- that means stability and a place in future mega conferences is rock solid.

Miller - I'd love to see it- I'm just not sold the university has the appetite.

You game me some 'why not' reasons. Why did Urban Meyer leave Florida for Ohio State, there was zero reason for him to do so? For Drew it could simply be a matter of a new challenge in what is historically the best basketball conference where he can go toe to toe with UNC and Duke. Who knows call him. It doesn't cost anything.

SEC money I don't know how much it matters. Syracuse has some of the best basketball facilities in the nation and can certainly spend what they want on hoops.

Conference stability is less important in basketball and no one is making a decision based on a conference that might implode 13 years from now. And if it does, just leave.

 

[OttosDad]

Ball pressure.

Yep. Ball pressure is what wins in March… see Baylor and Nova’s recent success. Also throwing different looks at teams defensively is huge too. Under our current leadership, we have zero strategy and creativity from a coaching standpoint

 

[DilemaCuse]

You game me some 'why not' reasons. Why did Urban Meyer leave Florida for Ohio State, there was zero reason for him to do so? For Drew it could simply be a matter of a new challenge in what is historically the best basketball conference where he can go toe to toe with UNC and Duke. Who knows call him. It doesn't cost anything.

SEC money I don't know how much it matters. Syracuse has some of the best basketball facilities in the nation and can certainly spend what they want on hoops.

Conference stability is less important in basketball and no one is making a decision based on a conference that might implode 13 years from now. And if it does, just leave.

Meyer took a year off for health reasons and spend time with family

Then couldnt resist coaching back in his home state

 

[Bayside44]

You game me some 'why not' reasons. Why did Urban Meyer leave Florida for Ohio State, there was zero reason for him to do so? For Drew it could simply be a matter of a new challenge in what is historically the best basketball conference where he can go toe to toe with UNC and Duke. Who knows call him. It doesn't cost anything.

SEC money I don't know how much it matters. Syracuse has some of the best basketball facilities in the nation and can certainly spend what they want on hoops.

Conference stability is less important in basketball and no one is making a decision based on a conference that might implode 13 years from now. And if it does, just leave.

With the SEC stuff those guys have buyouts which are punitive. Oates got a new deal also, the $$$ alone just doesn't line up.

Doesn't mean (I hope) that our side didn't check in on some big fish.

(Meyer almost doubled his $$$ at tOSU)

 

[Newhouser]

Hopkins also makes me worry about JB’s coaching tree and its lack of success. In general, he doesn’t really even have a tree.

I wonder if Hop not doing so well has scared folks off Red and Gerry.

 

[SU91]

Rick Pitino says Hi!

Rick Pitino isn’t part of JB’s coaching “tree”. That’s a fallacy. It’s just air time filler during broadcasts when announcers have to talk about something. Can’t stand these “says hi” takes sighting one example. It’s not even a good one. Pitino spent like two years at SU. Jimmy certainly didn’t teach him “everything he knows” considering his style is 180 degrees from Boheim. Yes they are friends. Yes, Jimmy “called him on his wedding night”. Blah blah blab. Pitino is perhaps the best college coach of all time. He definitely is not what I’d consider the tree. My point still stands, after 50 years, Boheim doesn’t have one.

Rick Pitino says Hi!

 

[Otto'd]

Yep. 3 years. That's it. If we're not back in the top 25 and in the tourney by year 3 then we need to move on. Success needs to be unquestionable by year 3. Undebatable.

Hoops ain't football.

This I disagree with. If you have a coach that you believe in, you have to give them 5. Even with the portal it takes a lot of time to instill your "system" and you have to give them a full recruiting cycle.

 

[OrangePA]

Ball pressure.

Ball pressure.

If I were coaching today, I would try to do what Pitino did in 1996 and what Arkansas did many years ago - pressure full court all game.

I would use a full-court zone press similar to what UCLA used under Wooden.

So, I'm all for pressuring the ball.

The question is would I have the athletes to pull it off.

 

[PhatOrange]

With the SEC stuff those guys have buyouts which are punitive. Oates got a new deal also, the $$$ alone just doesn't line up.

Doesn't mean (I hope) that our side didn't check in on some big fish.

(Meyer almost doubled his $$$ at tOSU)

I get it and everyone can punch holes into any position on this subject but I just don't operate that way. I don't not do something because of the 'why not' reasons. I'm more interested in the 'why' reasons.

You make the phone calls.

 

[Otto'd]

Rick Pitino isn’t part of JB’s coaching “tree”. That’s a fallacy. It’s just air time filler during broadcasts when announcers have to talk about something. Can’t stand these “says hi” takes sighting one example. It’s not even a good one. Pitino spent like two years at SU. Jimmy certainly didn’t teach him “everything he knows” considering his style is 180 degrees from Boheim. Yes they are friends. Yes, Jimmy “called him on his wedding night”. Blah blah blab. Pitino is perhaps the best college coach of all time. He definitely is not what I’d consider the tree. My point still stands, after 50 years, Boheim doesn’t have one.

Coaching Trees arent really a thing. Some of the best coaches of all time have crappy trees. What is Coach K's tree? Amaker? failed everywhere but Harvard. Capel I guess is OK, but just OK. Wojo? not good, Johhny Dawkins? meh. Collins? fair.

 

[Cusefan0307]

If I were coaching today, I would try to do what Pitino did in 1996 and what Arkansas did many years ago - pressure full court all game.

I would use a full-court zone press similar to what UCLA used under Wooden.

So, I'm all for pressuring the ball.

The question is would I have the athletes to pull it off.

Ehhh. Full court pressure with the shooting today isn't a great defense either. See St. Johns.

Half court man to man is fine.

 

[SU91]

Coaching Trees arent really a thing. Some of the best coaches of all time have crappy trees. What is Coach K's tree? Amaker? failed everywhere but Harvard. Capel I guess is OK, but just OK. Wojo? not good, Johhny Dawkins? meh. Collins? fair.

Yeah, point being, Hopkins is our only real example of JB’s tutelage and scheme outside of SU where JB’s isn’t the one calling the shots. So, people worried about Red or Gmac lacking experience or exposure to various systems is valid.

 

[Bayside44]

I get it and everyone can punch holes into any position on this subject but I just don't operate that way. I don't not do something because of the 'why not' reasons. I'm more interested in the 'why' reasons.

You make the phone calls.

Don't disagree at all on making the calls. Completely understand why the calls may be short.

 

[Bayside44]

Ehhh. Full court pressure with the shooting today isn't a great defense either. See St. Johns.

Half court man to man is fine.

Yeah there are a minimum of three guys on most teams that can run right through that.

 

[Orangezoo]

You game me some 'why not' reasons. Why did Urban Meyer leave Florida for Ohio State, there was zero reason for him to do so? For Drew it could simply be a matter of a new challenge in what is historically the best basketball conference where he can go toe to toe with UNC and Duke. Who knows call him. It doesn't cost anything.

SEC money I don't know how much it matters. Syracuse has some of the best basketball facilities in the nation and can certainly spend what they want on hoops.

Conference stability is less important in basketball and no one is making a decision based on a conference that might implode 13 years from now. And if it does, just leave.

I'm not saying you don't try. I'm saying why most are long shots. Let's just be clear on that. Bayside already added color on SEC money. Stability matters because no one truly knows the time table. It does matter for hoops given if you land poorly because of football, you will struggle to compete with the money those super conferences can pull in.