What I'm hearing

[SBU72]

Well, if that's the artificially constrained choice, that I agree.

But I think you're 100% wrong about people who would be interested in this job, when it eventually opens up.

Also, we're not Maryland. And Louisville is trying to lure a candidate under duress.

Having not searched for a b-ball head coach for over 40 years it's really difficult to determine exactly how desirable the SU job would be to candidates. Following a HF coach is hard to do and more so with that tenure. Will it be a destination job with longevity or a stepping stone for a flash in the pan guy. Hop has the experience everybody wanted him to have but the shine has dulled a little. Autry or Hart have broader experience. Going in house is easier but IMO, anyone of Hop/Red/GMAC need to bring an assistant that has a strong background in m2m.

 

[AZOrange]

People would freak out if a candidate was considered who had Hopkins resume, if he were submitted as of blind resume.

But he’s not a blind resume. He’s an alum and a great recruiter. He certainly has some questions of his game strategy but he’s not on equal footing compared to outside candidates. Same reason alums coach at a lot of big schools

 

[HRE Otto IV]

You mean the 2 years when he inherited a roster from an established coach who is recognized as a truly great reporter in romar?

I don't have time to respond to this in depth, but I'll point you to a post Jake made earlier. Hop has been a disaster offensively, and his teams have gotten worse defensively after losing that athletic wing to the NBA. He doesn't seem to have any answers, because he's basically a no-trick pony. He just goes with what he knows, which is basically to attempt to run this same systems on both side of the ball that he learned from Boeheim, only he's not nearly as good of a coach.

I also think the zone played a factor. It was new to the P12 so it took time to adjust. It is the same reason why the zone is better for SU OOC than in conference.

 

[RF2044]

But he’s not a blind resume. He’s an alum and a great recruiter. He certainly has some questions of his game strategy but he’s not on equal footing compared to outside candidates. Same reason alums coach at a lot of big schools

We both know that I was talking about two disastrous losing seasons -- which included a last place conference finish and a second to last place finish, followed by a third barely being above .500. If an anonymous candidate were considered for the SU head coaching job with that lon their resume, people would freak. And that's the point. Some posters are favorably biased towards hop because he's an alum

 

[RF2044]

I also think the zone played a factor. It was new to the P12 so it took time to adjust. It is the same reason why the zone is better for SU OOC than in conference.

Agree 100%

 

[HRE Otto IV]

But he’s not a blind resume. He’s an alum and a great recruiter. He certainly has some questions of his game strategy but he’s not on equal footing compared to outside candidates. Same reason alums coach at a lot of big schools

Wouldn't he be better as the #2 guy behind Hart or Red?

 

[hoopsupstate]

Hop could change the narrative if he bounces back next year with a twenty win season.

 

[RF2044]

Wouldn't he be better as the #2 guy behind Hart or Red?

I I think that's a fair point for discussion. Without even focusing too much on hop, sports is full of terrific coaches who Excel is coordinators, or assistant coaches, who just don't have what it takes to be successful head coaches.

 

[SWC75]

So Jake posts his updated odds at 7:23 last night and it's now on page 14 of a 19 page thread.

We're already picking the bones of the Boeheim Era aren't we?

 

[jdubs30]

You mean the 2 years when he inherited a roster from an established coach who is recognized as a truly great reporter in romar?

I don't have time to respond to this in depth, but I'll point you to a post Jake made earlier. Hop has been a disaster offensively, and his teams have gotten worse defensively after losing that athletic wing to the NBA. He doesn't seem to have any answers, because he's basically a no-trick pony. He just goes with what he knows, which is basically to attempt to run this same systems on both side of the ball that he learned from Boeheim, only he's not nearly as good of a coach.

Hypothetically RF, you even said yourself Hop did well with Romars roster (an established great recruiter). I think we all agree Hop is a very good recruiter. I think it’s also very fair to say that Hops recruiting hasn’t been as strong on the west coast since he has less relationships out there.

If we think Hop will recruit better here than he did at UW, we can point to seasons he had at UW where he performed well with a good roster. So that leads me to believe since he will able to recruit better here, he won’t have many seasons like he’s had recently at Washington.


It’s one thing if he was bad with that Romar group of guys, but he wasn’t

 

[SWC75]

Hop could change the narrative if he bounces back next year with a twenty win season.

So could JB.

 

[Toga]

I agree. Defensively he’s done ok. His offense Is dreadful at times. They don’t always play with a purpose. It seems whatever happens, happens. That’s not the way to take advantage of your talent.

Don't understand why more teams don't run St. Peters' motion / ball hand off with screen.

 

[kcsu]

A couple of things. A farewll tour is tough and tougher if you dont have a good team.
As to new coaches im all in on HOP Red and little G for the reasons ive posted. If we go outside i seriously dont have a clue who we would get. Its a total crap shoot unless you land Jay which isnt going to happen.

I personally want Hop. He would bring back the juice to the Dome and land an all star class. I think hes a good enough coach and coming home would energize his career

 

[RF2044]

Hypothetically RF, you even said yourself Hop did well with Romars roster (an established great recruiter). I think we all agree Hop is a very good recruiter. I think it’s also very fair to say that Hops recruiting hasn’t been as strong on the west coast since he has less relationships out there.

If we think Hop will recruit better here than he did at UW, we can point to seasons he had at UW where he performed well with a good roster. So that leads me to believe since he will able to recruit better here, he won’t have many seasons like he’s had recently at Washington.


It’s one thing if he was bad with that Romar group of guys, but he wasn’t

Okay, I'll play along.

The only problem with that scenario is that he wouldn't be inheriting a loaded roster here, he'd be taking over a generally depleted roster devoid of top end talent. Which means he wouldn't get the cushion needed to buffer performance the first couple of years. Maybe he'd recruit better without the team having outstanding success from the job, maybe he wouldn't. Even when he recruited blue chip talent like stewart and the 6-9 kid who also was a one and done, they came in last place. If that doesn't give you pause, I'm not sure what will.

 

[DoctorBombay]

If our candidate is Willard or Hopkins sure.

I just think Hopkins resume at Washington doesn’t scream optimism.

In Hop’s defense, plenty of coaches have started out shaky because of bad timing or bad fit. The Hop who set the world on fire his first 2 yrs at UW, is the one we’d hope we’re getting. Not worried about the zone either- if it generates wins, then who cares.
My major issue would be how Red fits into all this? He’s been a pretty good recruiter but certainly not on Hop’s level, and we don’t yet know how he’ll be as a bench coach. But it just seems like he’d be getting “passed over” like Fredo Corleone, just so Hop can stroll in and take the reins. Not sure what was promised to him, but the man has done his time and been a loyal lieutenant. It’d be a shame if he’s kicked to the curb after all these years, no?

 

[cuseinseattle]

I think Hop has some positives it’s just what had been visible doesn’t make him appealing.

Make a market rate offer to Hart.
Washington is not a bad job. They shouldn’t go 3 years in a row with no tournament. Let’s see if they get there next year.

I think Washington is a terrible job. If we start keeping track at 1960 they have never been to the elite 8. Hop already has a season with their 2nd most wins ever. There facilities are bad and it's a football first school. The also get terrible fan support unless they have a team that is top 3 in the conference. 3 of the 5 season Romar had that were good were at the end of Lute Olson when Zona was down. Romar missed 6 years in a row before losing his job. The previous coach went to the tournament twice in 9 years.

 

[hoopsupstate]

In Hop’s defense, plenty of coaches have started out shaky because of bad timing or bad fit. The Hop who set the world on fire his first 2 yrs at UW, is the one we’d hope we’re getting. Not worried about the zone either- if it generates wins, then who cares.
My major issue would be how Red fits into all this? He’s been a pretty good recruiter but certainly not on Hop’ level, and we don’t yet know how he’ll be as a bench coach. But it just seems like he’d be getting “passed over” like Fredo Corleone, just so Hop can stroll in and take the reins. Not sure what was promised to him, but the man has done his time and been a loyal lieutenant. It’d be a shame if he’s kicked to the curb after all these years, no?

Not any different if Hop took the job four years ago. Red and GMAC were both here.

 

[Melancer46]

Okay, I'll play along.

The only problem with that scenario is that he wouldn't be inheriting a loaded roster here, he'd be taking over a generally depleted roster devoid of top end talent. Which means he wouldn't get the cushion needed to buffer performance the first couple of years. Maybe he'd recruit better without the team having outstanding success from the job, maybe he wouldn't. Even when he recruited blue chip talent like stewart and the 6-9 kid who also was a one and done, they came in last place. If that doesn't give you pause, I'm not sure what will.

The counter to this (I don’t personally think it can totally be brushed off but this is the obvious counter) is that they were 11-4 that season until Quade Green got hurt and they just didn’t have a PG without him. That 11-4 included wins over Baylor (top 5 in the country that year) and USC (3rd in the PAC-12 and 22-9 on the year). The 4 losses for the record were to a mediocre Tennessee team, #2 Gonzaga, top 25 Houston, and UCLA who finished 2nd in the conference.

 

[dasher]

The counter to this (I don’t personally think it can totally be brushed off but this is the obvious counter) is that they were 11-4 that season until Quade Green got hurt and they just didn’t have a PG without him. That 11-4 included wins over Baylor (top 5 in the country that year) and USC (3rd in the PAC-12 and 22-9 on the year). The 4 losses for the record were to a mediocre Tennessee team, #2 Gonzaga, top 25 Houston, and UCLA who finished 2nd in the conference.

Didn't Green get d qualified by his grades? Not injury?

 

[OrangeFoo]

I think you are all asking the wrong question... the question isn't "who?" the question is "when?". History has shown that 99% of coaches don't become all-time HoF greats like JB, Izzo, Coache K, etc... who spend their entire at one school and build a brand that is greater than the brand of the school. The odds are the next coach will have anywhere from a crappy 3 year stint at SU to a decent 5 to 7 year stint. The big issue is the longer our HoF'er hangs on the longer we are extending our time till we find out next great coach and the harder it gets for the next coach to become that next great coach.

We are a completely irrelevant program right now... It almost doesn't matter who is the next coach unless the next coach has a high probability of being a HoFer and no offense to any of the posters here, of all the options discussed here the probability of that person becoming an all time great at SU is maybe 5% +/- the probability of Hop or Autry becoming a HoFer. There is no need to ovethink... just get someone in as soon as possible.

 

[Melancer46]

Didn't Green get d qualified by his grades? Not injury?

Whatever it was, the team was not equipped to lose him and completely collapsed (which of course isn’t great either lol). Point being, they were a top 25 team when they had their full roster that year.

 

[orangecuse]

I think every Head coach JW has hired (Men's Lacrosse, Women's lacrosse, Women's B-ball) has been an alum, so I'm betting he goes that route.

100%. He clearly operates as a path of least resistance type.

 

[Obie9]

So Jake posts his updated odds at 7:23 last night and it's now on page 14 of a 19 page thread.

We're already picking the bones of the Boeheim Era aren't we?

Apparently nobody works anymore.

 

[AZOrange]

We both know that I was talking about two disastrous losing seasons -- which included a last place conference finish and a second to last place finish, followed by a third barely being above .500. If an anonymous candidate were considered for the SU head coaching job with that lon their resume, people would freak. And that's the point. Some posters are favorably biased towards hop because he's an alum

Well yeah, that’s the point. Alums at most schools are like that.

 

[AZOrange]

Wouldn't he be better as the #2 guy behind Hart or Red?

Zero chance.