What I'm hearing

[two3zone]

So then how is he this great recruiter then?
I know he did well at Syracuse by being the good cop to JB’s tough cop.

I don’t think recruiting can be your strength and then in year 5 not be recruiting as a strength.

Seattle, Las Vegas, Southern California all have talent. How long does it take to become an elite recruiter if you are a good recruiter.

I don’t want to make excuses for the man as he has made mistakes, sure it takes time to cross the country and build relationships but he also had to do it during Covid time, may not be the best time to develop new relationships.

 

[Day2]

So then how is he this great recruiter then?
I know he did well at Syracuse by being the good cop to JB’s tough cop.

I don’t think recruiting can be your strength and then in year 5 not be recruiting as a strength.

Seattle, Las Vegas, Southern California all have talent. How long does it take to become an elite recruiter if you are a good recruiter.

Location, location, location. He’s a strong recruiter in the northeast. It took years to build up those relationships. More time than he’s spent at Washington. Plus, he’s had issues there that he didn’t have here.

 

[FrancoPizza]

Exactly this.

I love Hop. I do. I wish he got the job when he was supposed to. Truly.

I think it's totally fine if he is a candidate for being our next HC. But he needs to compete for it and win it within a national search.

All I will say is IF Hop gets the nod, that he needs to develop some thicker skin. From what people said around here, he was floored by the fan reaction to his 7 game "substitute teacher" stint. We need a coach who can tune out the noise and focus on the job.

 

[DoctahLexus]

Back in the day when Hop was landing talent on the east coast, trying and failing to get a team to the next level as head coach was not a part of his track record. And that puts what he did at Washington lightly. The last three years have been dismal, no matter what "give him time" or covid argument anyone has. We would be asking the guy to not only find his footing again on the east coast after a significant hiatus, but overcome a stain on his record as a coach. It's not just fans who would be taking a long look at the results in Washington. Recruits see the same thing.

 

[Alsacs]

Location, location, location. He’s a strong recruiter in the northeast. It took years to build up those relationships. More time than he’s spent at Washington. Plus, he’s had issues there that he didn’t have here.

Location doesn’t matter if you can recruit.
Few gets kids the top freshman HS recruits in the nation from MN back to back years.

Elite recruiters can get the players.

I believe Hop could do well recruiting as an assistant at SU. If he came here it’s not the same situation.

If he can’t recruit well at Washington and people want to say there are other reasons that is fine if he doesn’t make the tournament next year he is likely fired.

Syracuse can and should do better.

 

[SU94]

Actually, just one relevant example.

Lloyd was an AC, who got a promotion.

Mack did exactly what you said -- he was a coach performing well, went to Louisville amidst issues, and then directly compounded the issues and made them worse by continuing to cheat. And now, Louisville is going to struggle MORE to hire someone, because the hammer is about to get dropped on them.

We agree on one fundamental pillar(!): Chris Mack is a hypocritical POS.

 

[SUFan44]

Actually, just one relevant example.

Lloyd was an AC, who got a promotion.

Mack did exactly what you said -- he was a coach performing well, went to Louisville amidst issues, and then made the issues worse by continuing to cheat. And now, Louisville is going to struggle MORE to hire someone, because the hammer is about to get dropped on them.

RF,

I understand you're going to continue to beat the drum. And I agree for the most part that this program needs new life. But I'd really like to hear who a couple of realistic candidates are that you'd want SU to look at?

You can name a guy like Shaheen Holloway if you want - but I'm not sure Seton Hall is going to let him walk after one year without a hefty buyout and a significant increase.

Is someone like Matt Langel from Colgate ready to take over an ACC program? Does he have the recruiting chops to get the high profile kid? His system is great but not sure it translates.

Griff Aldrich from Longwood is interesting but again, no ties to the Northeast, hasn't been at a big-time school before, and does it translate to the top of the top?

The list isn't that great of a coach who has head coaching experience at a reasonable level (mid major, A-10ish level), and is connected enough to the Northeast to make sense. URI just got Archie Miller, UMass just got Frank Martin. Those are two A-10 schools.

Are we looking to go that route? I think Hopkins -- with the CORRECT staff around him -- is a better candidate for SU than either of those two, but that's just me.

An aside: Hopkins has a relatively green AD at Washington who has more of a development background than administration, and hasn't exactly helped push him in the right direction to create a staff that could be successful. I'm not sure what the assistant pool is like at UW, but whatever it is, is that a constraint? I don't know. But the staff is not good.

We have learned that Wildhack has no problem having these conversations. And I would hope/trust he would have that conversation with any candidate taking over, to make sure it is constructed for success and not just the way it has been.

 

[Alsacs]

RF,

I understand you're going to continue to beat the drum. But I'd really like to hear who a couple of realistic candidates are that you'd want SU to look at?

You can name a guy like Shaheen Holloway if you want - but I'm not sure Seton Hall is going to let him walk after one year without a hefty buyout and a significant increase.

Is someone like Matt Langel from Colgate ready to take over an ACC program? Does he have the recruiting chops to get the high profile kid? His system is great but not sure it translates.

Griff Aldrich from Longwood is interesting but again, no ties to the Northeast, hasn't been at a big-time school before, and does it translate to the top of the top?

The list isn't that great of a coach who has head coaching experience at a reasonable level (mid major, A-10ish level), and is connected enough to the Northeast to make sense. URI just got Archie Miller, UMass just got Frank Martin. Those are two A-10 schools.

Are we looking to go that route? I think Hopkins is a better candidate for SU than either of those two, but that's just me.

Swing for the fences with Mark Few and let him say no.
Nate Oats will be realistic when buyout goes down.
Steve Pickell will be realistic.
Jason Hart will be realistic.
Andy Enfield will be realistic.

There are more. Question is who does John Wildhack want.

It doesn’t have to be Hop vs. Red.

 

[RF2044]

The pac 12 is bad but winning coach of then year twice is def a point against you. I’m also not as pro-hop as you’re hot take assumes. I am pro-talent, coaching stuff can be fixed with good assistants and experience.

I think the macro argument comes down to a guy we know vs the field, which is obviously unfair and a dumb way to think about it. It’s Hop, Red, Gmac vs who we can get when we actually do a search.

"Hot take" -- good grief.

You're right, he was P12 COY twice, but it's been basically all downhill [putting it MILDLY] from there. And he inherited a roster from a coach who was known as a terrific recruiter. It isn't difficult to put two and two together why the decline ensued, as those players moved on.

His recruiting capabilities are being exaggerated, IMO, and used as a rationalization to offset his other glaring shortcomings as a head coach. He had a last place finish with two McD AA caliber recruits [Stewart and McDaniel] -- let that sink in for a second -- how does that fit in with the pro-talent perspective?

When you factor in the lack of coaching acumen laid out by the data, it raises a ton of red flags.

That's all -- there's nothing more underlying my opinion that we should aim higher. I've stated dozens of times in recent months that I love Hop, and I'm tremendously appreciative of all of his contributions to the program that he made -- both as a player AND as an assistant coach. But this trial run at UW has not gone well, and there are reasons for that. Not everybody has the chops to be a head coach -- that doesn't mean he's a "bad" coach, it just means that he's closer to Romeo Crennel [an outstanding DC, but subpar HC] than some would like to accept.

As MikeSU02 states, put him on the list and let's see how he stacks up against other candidates, and may the best candidate win.

 

[RF2044]

We agree on one fundamental pillar(!): Chris Mack is a hypocritical POS.

On that, we are fully aligned!

 

[SUFan44]

Swing for the fences with Mark Few and let him say no.
Nate Oats will be realistic when buyout goes down.
Steve Pickell will be realistic.
Jason Hart will be realistic.
Andy Enfield will be realistic.

There are more. Question is who does John Wildhack want.

It doesn’t have to be Hop vs. Red.

Oats isn't coming. Period.

Pikiell is realistic? He's making $4M per year.

Andy Enfield is realistic? Are you kidding me? He's taken jobs at Florida Gulf Coast & USC. He's making $3M+. You think his model wife is going to leave SC to come to SU?

Same with Hart - I know he is an alum, but he is unproven at the collegiate level as a HC, and how is he different than Autry other than Autry's time at SU is going to be held against him due to JB?

If you're going to take an existing HC from a P5 school like Pikiell or Enfield - they'd 1) need to be interested and 2) you'd need to offer $5M at a 5-year deal minimum. That's doubling what they're currently paying Boeheim.

I'm not saying they shouldn't try to do it - but I am not sure they will.

 

[AZOrange]

Oats isn't coming. Period.

Pikiell is realistic? He's making $4M per year.

Andy Enfield is realistic? Are you kidding me? He's taken jobs at Florida Gulf Coast & USC. He's making $3M+. You think his model wife is going to leave SC to come to SU?

Same with Hart - I know he is an alum, but he is unproven at the collegiate level as a HC, and how is he different than Autry other than Autry's time at SU is going to be held against him due to JB?

If you're going to take an existing HC from a P5 school like Pikiell or Enfield - they'd 1) need to be interested and 2) you'd need to offer $5M at a 5-year deal minimum. That's doubling what they're currently paying Boeheim.

I'm not saying they shouldn't try to do it - but I am not sure they will.

This is the problem. We are not realistic about targets. Boynton is realistic. The Xavier coach might be realistic. But most named on here are pipe dreams.

And in the end when faced with the choice between a Xavier coach whose had some success but unproven in P5 vs an alum who is very well regarded in all circles (regardless of last 3 years) the choice will be obvious. The bigger dilemma for Cuse will be Hop over Red.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Swing for the fences with Mark Few and let him say no.
Nate Oats will be realistic when buyout goes down.
Steve Pickell will be realistic.
Jason Hart will be realistic.
Andy Enfield will be realistic.

There are more. Question is who does John Wildhack want.

It doesn’t have to be Hop vs. Red.

Outside of Few all of those hires bring risks too. Personally, I think Enfield is a terrible fit here.

Hart would be good, but we need to pry him from California.

 

[Day2]

Location doesn’t matter if you can recruit.
Few gets kids the top freshman HS recruits in the nation from MN back to back years.

Elite recruiters can get the players.

I believe Hop could do well recruiting as an assistant at SU. If he came here it’s not the same situation.

If he can’t recruit well at Washington and people want to say there are other reasons that is fine if he doesn’t make the tournament next year he is likely fired.

Syracuse can and should do better.

Few has been a coach at Gonzaga since Hopkins started playing at SU.

You’re expecting similar results from Hop when he’s only been there since 2017? Was Few pulling in top recruits after five years as an assistant? After five years as a head coach even?

Don’t get me wrong, SU can and should do better. And Hop made his own bed by relying too heavily on his NE connections his first couple of years at Washington. That said, his lack of success recruiting in the Pacific Northwest would have little bearing on his ability to recruit at SU.

 

[Cusefan0307]

This is the problem. We are not realistic about targets. Boynton is realistic. The Xavier coach might be realistic. But most named on here are pipe dreams.

And in the end when faced with the choice between a Xavier coach whose had some success but unproven in P5 vs an alum who is very well regarded in all circles (regardless of last 3 years) the choice will be obvious. The bigger dilemma for Cuse will be Hop over Red.

I'm amazed that so many people want Boynton. He and Hop have the same record. You wouldn't realize it reading this board and Ok State is a much better job than UW.

 

[SUFan44]

This is the problem. We are not realistic about targets. Boynton is realistic. The Xavier coach might be realistic. But most named on here are pipe dreams.

And in the end when faced with the choice between a Xavier coach whose had some success but unproven in P5 vs an alum who is very well regarded in all circles (regardless of last 3 years) the choice will be obvious. The bigger dilemma for Cuse will be Hop over Red.

I don't think Hop over Red is a dilemma. At least not in my opinion.

Autry hasn't proven anything to anyone, and has been on staff to watch the program decline.

Is that directly his fault? Not necessarily. But he's the associate head coach. He should be the right-hand person to JB, and should be telling him what he needs to hear, not what he wants to hear.

That's my issue with this whole thing. The assistant coaches played for him, know his tendencies, and if they had any value, would come in and tell it like it is. What is JB going to do - fire them?

Instead, it just keeps moving along and trending downward. At least with Hop on staff, it never slipped to this level. He hasn't been great at UW, but you never know the situation an individual is in unless you're in their shoes. And I would venture a guess to say his familiarity with SU and his understanding of what works and what doesn't will serve him greatly if he is chosen to be the replacement.

 

[HoustonCuse]

Swing for the fences with Mark Few and let him say no.
Nate Oats will be realistic when buyout goes down.
Steve Pickell will be realistic.
Jason Hart will be realistic.
Andy Enfield will be realistic.

There are more. Question is who does John Wildhack want.

It doesn’t have to be Hop vs. Red.

Mark Few? Come on brother! That is nonsense is the absolute extreme. An argument could be made that it’d be easier to get Hubert Davis to leave UNC to come here than getting Few. Plus, recall that Mark Few offered a scholarship to one Buddy Boeheim so his coaching prowess is under serious question with our fan base right there.

 

[Orangefizz]

You keep mentioning Ransom. I don’t want him near the program. He was/is a part of that whole FBI investigation into recruiting and was named in the subpoena Maryland received.

Didnt know that - no way Syracuse goes near him, but someone connected to the AAU scene and not an SU alum is badly needed on staff

 

[phil77]

This is the problem. We are not realistic about targets. Boynton is realistic. The Xavier coach might be realistic. But most named on here are pipe dreams.

And in the end when faced with the choice between a Xavier coach whose had some success but unproven in P5 vs an alum who is very well regarded in all circles (regardless of last 3 years) the choice will be obvious. The bigger dilemma for Cuse will be Hop over Red.

There are plenty of coaches more qualified than what we have on the bench. Anytime you hire someone it is a risk it doesn't matter if that hire is in house or outside of the program they all come with the same risk. The program needs fresh eyes and fresh ideas.

Hop and Red are only being considered because of JB otherwise they would not come close to getting a job the caliber of Syracuse.

 

[Marty McFly]

Swing for the fences with Mark Few and let him say no.
Nate Oats will be realistic when buyout goes down.
Steve Pickell will be realistic.
Jason Hart will be realistic.
Andy Enfield will be realistic.

There are more. Question is who does John Wildhack want.

It doesn’t have to be Hop vs. Red.

I agree why not talk to Few, and folks of that caliber, have them say no, no harm done there.
Nate Oats... SEC money no way he comes back
Steve Pickell, has done OK at Rutty, but I think we want better than mediocre
Hart is the type of alum, that can bring it, but not sure he'd accept
Enfield? He's got a cushy job in LA... keep dreaming

 

[HRE Otto IV]

Duke and North Carolina had incentive to make continuity hires. We don't. It's simple as that.

Maryland is below us IMO. Even then they hired a P6 HC who got his team to the NCCAT 6 out of the last 7 seasons. I don't think he is a good HC or a good fit, but he has a resume.

I think Pikiell would be a great fit. If Kansas can hire Roy why can't we hire Pikiell? Kyle Smith would be another good P6 HC get. There are also plenty of quality mid major HCs.

If we hire an SU guy, chances are we will need to hire an outsider 3-4 years later anyway.

Edit

I would add Wes Miller to the list too. I rather have a good HC for 3-4 years and then need to find another HC, over a blind faith hire. Get the best HC we can. Ideally I want a Lifer but they are no longer the norm. If the choices are an unqualified SU guy who is a potential lifer or a proven Top HC, why take the risk?

 

[orangecuse]

Michigan hired an NBA alum over Ed Cooley.
I think their AD kinda got it right. With his final 2.

UNC hired for continuation. They didn’t consider anyone else but Wes Miller who will be their backup if Hubert failed. Hubert kinda turned it around.

Duke hired who K wanted and K earned that.

Syracuse hasn’t been close to the level of any of these 3.
Michigan has been to sweet 16 5 years in a row.
Duke and UNC are looking fine.
Look at Duke’s recruiting next year.

Syracuse is stuck in the mud. The status quo isn’t wanted.

True dat! We are that '64 Buick Skylark!

 

[Newhouser]

We can argue whether he should have taken the job or not. He was backed into a corner and it was a P-5 job. Very few people move from the east to west coast for good reason. You lose all of your relationships. I normally agree with you but I think this take is lazy and wrong.

Interesting about the east/west thing - UCLA has found success with Howland and now Cronin. Miller had success at Arizona, Hurley not so much as ASU. Dana Altman was Creighton before Oregon?

 

[oldpinepoint]

My recollection and personal feeling is Hop moved to the west coast to be closer to his parents. That being said I didn’t think he was a good fit for Washington. All of his relationships are back on the east coast. It was basically someone who left that didn’t want to force out his mentor.

Do I think he would be a good fit here, i’m not really sure. He hasn’t lit it up at Washington but I think it was an uphill battle from the start. Part of my angst with the current state of SU hoops is how unathletic and slow we are. That’s on both ends of the court. Our roster management is atrocious. I think hop could help improve that.

Is he my first choice no, is he better than red? Possibly. JW is a smart guy, he doesn’t need a search firm to hire the next coach. People will reach out to him through back channels to gage their interest. Hiring from within without seeing what is out there is the lazy choice which basically fits how our program has been run the last 3-4 years. I feel like when we discuss hop we are in love with the old ex-high school girlfriend that that isn’t nearly as hot as she used to be. If the shape of college basketball has changed and we cannot attract anyone of high quality then you would circle back and look internally. My guess is if we hire internally or
Hop it’s because JW didn’t feel like there was an outside choice that was worth it.

 

[TheCusian]

"Hot take" -- good grief. yeah, you simplified my position without reading. almost by definition that's a hot take. Don't worry, I'm guilty of it from time to time too

You're right, he was P12 COY twice, but it's been basically all downhill [putting it MILDLY] from there. And he inherited a roster from a coach who was known as a terrific recruiter. It isn't difficult to put two and two together why the decline ensued, as those players moved on. any "yeah butting" a COY is weird. First time coaches can have highs and lows - in fact it's likely him learning. A terrific question to ask him during an interview.

His recruiting capabilities are being exaggerated, IMO, and used as a rationalization to offset his other glaring shortcomings as a head coach. He had a last place finish with two McD AA caliber recruits [Stewart and McDaniel] -- let that sink in for a second -- how does that fit in with the pro-talent perspective? So he's not a good recruiter? or he is?

When you factor in the lack of coaching acumen laid out by the data, it raises a ton of red flags. Sure? Again - I'm not as pro-Hop as you keep suggesting? I was saying I'd prioritize recruiting over coaching on my list of things that are important. If he's a good NE recruiter (there's evidence that this is true) and a decent coach with history here - he absolutely should be considered.

That's all -- there's nothing more underlying my opinion that we should aim higher. I've stated dozens of times in recent months that I love Hop, and I'm tremendously appreciative of all of his contributions to the program that he made -- both as a player AND as an assistant coach. But this trial run at UW has not gone well, and there are reasons for that. Not everybody has the chops to be a head coach -- that doesn't mean he's a "bad" coach, it just means that he's closer to Romeo Crennel [an outstanding DC, but subpar HC] than some would like to accept. Ok. This is my take too?

As MikeSU02 states, put him on the list and let's see how he stacks up against other candidates, and may the best candidate win. Yep. Of course.