What is This Year's Team Identity?

[javadoc]

Trying to figure out who we are and what kind of team Marrone wants us to be, long-term.

2009 was a severely under-talented team trying just to be competitive. Looking back, I have to wonder if Marrone wanted to run a shotgun-oriented attack to let Paulus do his thing, and then the horrible realization set in that our center couldn't execute a freaking shotgun snap. That year, to me, looked like a GRob squad with better coaching.

2010 was a grand cosmic conjunction year. Still under-talented, but facing a schedule loaded with teams whose offenses were experiencing a 100-year low suck. The grind-it-out, win a 10-7 game strategy worked because Derrell Smith and Delone Carter imposed their wills. We pulled this year out of our asses. It wasn't predictive, nor was it an indicator of who we wanted to be. I think it was a great, and maybe lucky, coaching performance. Making chicken salad etc. Still didn't tell us much about who we wanted to be.

2011 was back to 2009. No Derrell Smith, no Delone Carter. Still not a full roster, so injuries were crucial. No Marcus Sales. Given where we were as a program, every loss of a truly talented player killed. What were we trying to be? The 2010 team, but without the extra luck of facing teams in an offensive abyss? The team we wanted to be, without the personnel to do so? I'm not sure, would love to hear what you think.

This year, who are we? We look very different than the previous teams, offensively at least. Probably this is our first glimpse of what Marrone wanted us to be, back in 2009. It's tough to draw conclusions about our end game, if for no other reason than that we have been playing from behind seemingly this entire freaking year.

This year, we are a team that can allow an average D-1A QB with good short- to mid-range accuracy to contend for top-10 national stats. If our coaching brain trust comes up with schemes and plans that allow the QB to operate in a relative comfort zone, all is well. This is what I would expect from a mad scientist like Marrone. If he wins the brain game, he enables an average guy to excel. If not, the average guy performs... averagely.

OK, gratuitous digression. 4 games into this season, with a gazillion shotgun snaps, how many have gone astray? Sometimes it takes a Ryan Bartholomew to make you appreciate a Mackey Macpherson. FU Mackey haters.

What are we not this year? So far, we are not a team that can impose its will in the run game. Not a problem between the 20's, but in the red zone it hurts. If we were more like the 2010 team in this regard, we would have won the Minny game, and blown out our D-1AA sacrifice. This vexes me. I would have guessed that apart from Delone Carter, all the parts of our run game were stronger this year than in 2010. The OL has to be better, right? What gives?

Given the play calls this year, I think we can infer that Marrone wants us to be a team that can impose its will in the run game, when needed. Either that, or Marrone and Hackett have a significant disconnect. I don't know what the answer is. Do we have a talent issue in this one specific regard, this year? Will it be different when Pugh returns?

We've got 2 weeks to prepare for conference play, and I'm sure the staff is thinking about what kind of team we want to be for the remainder of this year. Here is what I hope.

Justin Pugh's return makes our OL solid across the line. Convince the guys that they are monsters and their job is to make opponents beg for their mommies. $100 to the first guy who gets a penalty for malicious hands inside the face mask.

Time to act like a team that comes out of the gate to dictate the game. Take every opening kickoff and attack, pass pass pass. Frack this overanalyzing what the opponent is going to do on defense. Play your best goddamn play, make the opponent prove he can stop it.

Back to something I said previously, pick Trudo or Foy and stick with him. The audition is over.

It's time to establish an identity. We are talented enough at least to compete with everyone on the schedule, so no more excuses. I want to see some confidence, consistent execution, and swagger. We are not the 2010 team, and we sure as hell aren't the 2009 and 2011 teams. Tie up the loose ends, and we are better than any of them.

 

[tipphill]

it appears to me that the team is being dictated by dm conservative pensive attitude and there is still no leadership on the field either offensive or defensive.not much enthusiasm --playing confused, afraid to take risk.

 

[44cuse]

This teams identity is yet to be written. Let the season play out and see if some leaders emerge. I see it two ways:

1. The "What could have been" season if the team plays well enough to essentially the BE where the look back says that we really should have beaten at Minnesota.

2. The "We are what he (Marrone) thought he was" season. In other words, the depth is there, the talent is improved...but we continue to play to the level of our opponents.

44cuse

 

[SoBristol]

How is it possible to sum up 2010 without mentioning Doug Hogue & Chandler Jones?

In 2011, the defense was much younger and less talented -- so the hope was a veteran offense would pick up the burden. It might have happened if we hadn't lost Sales to his joy ride and Gulley to injury. We had one serviceable RB, no deep threats, little depth, and few underclassmen emerging over the course of the season.

In 2012, we are short a few playmakers (recruiting has been OK in many respects, but lacking high end talent at LB, DE, RB), but there are pieces in place, and enough depth, to be competitive. It isn't over just because we lost competitive games against two Big10 teams. Our OL and specials need to get better. (We aren't "solid across the line" but the right side of the line should get better.) Fewer turnovers. The coaches don't know how to get it done in the red zone (and no one on this board has the secret sauce either) with an OL that doesn't get much push, ordinary RBs, no WR who excels in the red zone, and a QB who isn't a run threat in a goal line situation.

It wasn't a pretty start. But teams can put it together in October. Lots of teams improve over the course of a season and win rivalry games in November. It hasn't happened in the Marrone era, but why not now? If Pugh and Hickey provide good OT play, we can keep pressure off Nassib -- could make a big difference. We have 3 RBs (vs 1 last year) -- could make a big difference. Flemming and West have room to improve. And that, I hope, is the identity of this team -- not overly talented, few stars, hard-working, getting better as the season progresses. Can't prove it yet, but it could be.

 

[echosofmanley]

How is it possible to sum up 2010 without mentioning Doug Hogue & Chandler Jones?

In 2011, the defense was much younger and less talented -- so the hope was a veteran offense would pick up the burden. It might have happened if we hadn't lost Sales to his joy ride and Gulley to injury. We had one serviceable RB, no deep threats, little depth, and few underclassmen emerging over the course of the season.

In 2012, we are short a few playmakers (recruiting has been OK in many respects, but lacking high end talent at LB, DE, RB), but there are pieces in place, and enough depth, to be competitive. It isn't over just because we lost competitive games against two Big10 teams. Our OL and specials need to get better. (We aren't "solid across the line" but the right side of the line should get better.) Fewer turnovers. The coaches don't know how to get it done in the red zone (and no one on this board has the secret sauce either) with an OL that doesn't get much push, ordinary RBs, no WR who excels in the red zone, and a QB who isn't a run threat in a goal line situation.

It wasn't a pretty start. But teams can put it together in October. Lots of teams improve over the course of a season and win rivalry games in November. It hasn't happened in the Marrone era, but why not now? If Pugh and Hickey provide good OT play, we can keep pressure off Nassib -- could make a big difference. We have 3 RBs (vs 1 last year) -- could make a big difference. Flemming and West have room to improve. And that, I hope, is the identity of this team -- not overly talented, few stars, hard-working, getting better as the season progresses. Can't prove it yet, but it could be.

Nice post. Talent is OK, just need to get rolling.
Nothing new but specials and penalties are our Waterloo.

 

[dollarbill44]

SoBristol: I do too have the "secret sauce" for red zone success (more specfically, inside the 10). And I doubt I'm the only one on this board who does.

Stay in the spread formation with Broyld at RB. West wide-right, Sales wide-left, Lemon in the slot on the left and Wales at TE on the right. There are any number of plays we can run out of this formation, but the most important factor is that the defense has to respect the passing game and has to cover the whole field. If you get 1-on-1 with West, throw a fade to corner. If you have 1-on-1 with Sales on the left, throw a back shoulder. You can run Broyld in any direction. You can run the option where option #1 is pitch to AB, #2 is a pass to either West deep in the corner or Lemon coming across mid-depth or Wales underneath. Final option, Nassib keeps or throws it away.

The bunch formation with Smith at RB is too easy to defend against because all you have to do is put everyone right up the middle. If Smith goes outside, he is pretty easy to catch up to and Nassib can't beat any LB or DB in a footrace.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

I'm not sure our teams have had much of an identity under Marrone really. I've stopped worrying about it.

 

[SoBristol]

SoBristol: I do too have the "secret sauce" for red zone success (more specfically, inside the 10). And I doubt I'm the only one on this board who does.

Stay in the spread formation with Broyld at RB. West wide-right, Sales wide-left, Lemon in the slot on the left and Wales at TE on the right. There are any number of plays we can run out of this formation, but the most important factor is that the defense has to respect the passing game and has to cover the whole field. If you get 1-on-1 with West, throw a fade to corner. If you have 1-on-1 with Sales on the left, throw a back shoulder. You can run Broyld in any direction. You can run the option where option #1 is pitch to AB, #2 is a pass to either West deep in the corner or Lemon coming across mid-depth or Wales underneath. Final option, Nassib keeps or throws it away.
...

OK -- mail that in.
I am not convinced (yet) that Broyld is an upgrade over Smith as an inside runner, or Gulley as a scatback, but he could provide some options (RB pass). We were trying Sales on a slant from the left on the play that got blown up vs. Minny -- haven't seen Sales on a fade or back shoulder on that side.
I wish we had an option of running up the center but Macky (despite his merits in other situations where quick feet can help) is a liability at the goal line and none of our OGs gets much push. We also don't have a classic lead blocker.
Maybe the trick is to throw for scores before we get into the dreaded 1st and goal inside the 5?

 

[RICuse44]

Team identity at this point is in the hands of the players. The 8-5 team had guys that willed us to wins, whether is was Derrell with a pick when Cincy was driving or Delone breaking tackles to get a big first down (would mention the game but it happened four or five times that year). One coaching decision I really do not like is this BS game captains. Not having any captain week in and week out undermines that authority of any leaders on this team. At the very least Shamarko and Ryan should have been captains. Why is this important? Because when you are 1-3 you need the leaders in the locker room (and the coaching staff but really both) to tighten things up and get everyone on the same page. Game captains mean this role changes every single week. This team comes out flat and looks disinterested for most of the first half. This is where the team leaders have to step up. This did not happen last year. If it doesn't happen this year then we are in for a long fall.

 

[NineOneSeven]

I'll tell you what we aren't-- a team with a coaching staff possessing any clue how to operate within the five yard line. Still will never understand why QB sneaks are not called when you are on the freaking 1 foot line.

If I see one more failed goal-line stand! and yet :noidea: but mostly :bang:.

 

[tipphill]

with marrone---nothing is within the hands of the players!!!----he is too controling and makes them play uptight rather than using their spontaneous skills

 

[Orangello]

with marrone---nothing is within the hands of the players!!!----he is too controling and makes them play uptight rather than using their spontaneous skills

I'm pretty sure that all 4 of those turnovers last Sat. were spontaneous.

 

[GoSU96]

Trying to figure out who we are and what kind of team Marrone wants us to be, long-term.

2009 was a severely under-talented team trying just to be competitive. Looking back, I have to wonder if Marrone wanted to run a shotgun-oriented attack to let Paulus do his thing, and then the horrible realization set in that our center couldn't execute a freaking shotgun snap. That year, to me, looked like a GRob squad with better coaching.

2010 was a grand cosmic conjunction year. Still under-talented, but facing a schedule loaded with teams whose offenses were experiencing a 100-year low suck. The grind-it-out, win a 10-7 game strategy worked because Derrell Smith and Delone Carter imposed their wills. We pulled this year out of our asses. It wasn't predictive, nor was it an indicator of who we wanted to be. I think it was a great, and maybe lucky, coaching performance. Making chicken salad etc. Still didn't tell us much about who we wanted to be.

2011 was back to 2009. No Derrell Smith, no Delone Carter. Still not a full roster, so injuries were crucial. No Marcus Sales. Given where we were as a program, every loss of a truly talented player killed. What were we trying to be? The 2010 team, but without the extra luck of facing teams in an offensive abyss? The team we wanted to be, without the personnel to do so? I'm not sure, would love to hear what you think.

This year, who are we? We look very different than the previous teams, offensively at least. Probably this is our first glimpse of what Marrone wanted us to be, back in 2009. It's tough to draw conclusions about our end game, if for no other reason than that we have been playing from behind seemingly this entire freaking year.

This year, we are a team that can allow an average D-1A QB with good short- to mid-range accuracy to contend for top-10 national stats. If our coaching brain trust comes up with schemes and plans that allow the QB to operate in a relative comfort zone, all is well. This is what I would expect from a mad scientist like Marrone. If he wins the brain game, he enables an average guy to excel. If not, the average guy performs... averagely.

OK, gratuitous digression. 4 games into this season, with a gazillion shotgun snaps, how many have gone astray? Sometimes it takes a Ryan Bartholomew to make you appreciate a Mackey Macpherson. FU Mackey haters.

What are we not this year? So far, we are not a team that can impose its will in the run game. Not a problem between the 20's, but in the red zone it hurts. If we were more like the 2010 team in this regard, we would have won the Minny game, and blown out our D-1AA sacrifice. This vexes me. I would have guessed that apart from Delone Carter, all the parts of our run game were stronger this year than in 2010. The OL has to be better, right? What gives?

Given the play calls this year, I think we can infer that Marrone wants us to be a team that can impose its will in the run game, when needed. Either that, or Marrone and Hackett have a significant disconnect. I don't know what the answer is. Do we have a talent issue in this one specific regard, this year? Will it be different when Pugh returns?

We've got 2 weeks to prepare for conference play, and I'm sure the staff is thinking about what kind of team we want to be for the remainder of this year. Here is what I hope.

Justin Pugh's return makes our OL solid across the line. Convince the guys that they are monsters and their job is to make opponents beg for their mommies. $100 to the first guy who gets a penalty for malicious hands inside the face mask.

Time to act like a team that comes out of the gate to dictate the game. Take every opening kickoff and attack, pass pass pass. Frack this overanalyzing what the opponent is going to do on defense. Play your best goddamn play, make the opponent prove he can stop it.

Back to something I said previously, pick Trudo or Foy and stick with him. The audition is over.

It's time to establish an identity. We are talented enough at least to compete with everyone on the schedule, so no more excuses. I want to see some confidence, consistent execution, and swagger. We are not the 2010 team, and we sure as hell aren't the 2009 and 2011 teams. Tie up the loose ends, and we are better than any of them.

Well done.

You've hit upon the dream, a team that CAN impose it's will on 3rd and short if needed but most of the time wants to get 5 guys in the pattern and throw the ball around.

On offense the single biggest problem, and this isn't 20/20 is the right side of the line. It's hurt the run game, and obviously they can't hold the pocket consistently. Teams have overplayed the run to the left and have been able to handle runs to the right without much problem. 90% of the pressures/sacks have come from that side.

Nassib has shown that when he has time he will SHREAD a defense. With time, a team that zone's SU has gotten lit up. That was even true against Minny. The problem this weekend was too many plays where Minny was able to rush 4 and cover with 7 and bring pressure. When they weren't Nassib hit on some big chunk plays.

The identity for the team to date this year is one that is able to move the ball through the air but hasn't leveraged that into enough points because of turnovers and it doesn't the run the ball well enough or do a good enough job stopping the run.

Bottom line as you say, this team is better than any Marrone has put on the field previously.

 

[Scooch]

with marrone---nothing is within the hands of the players!!!----he is too controling and makes them play uptight rather than using their spontaneous skills

We're talking about football, not jazz improvisation.

 

[tipphill]

We're talking about football, not jazz improvisation.

yes we are talking about football---losing football---what ideas do you suggest or do you have any???1-3??? you must have some--- it all about the coaching now---and its on marrone

 

[ImperialOrange]

The identity I've seen so far is mental mistakes and some p*ss poor luck to go with it.

Bright side - We've got the players to win games and the issues are fixable
Gloomy side - They haven't shown any signs of improvement from week 1 to week 4 in that regard.

2010 team played it's heart out and made the most of what they were working with. Overall talent wise 2012 team should beat the 2010 squad but in 2010 there were playmakers that actually made plays in big spots. To date, we haven't seen that from the 2012 squad.

In 2010 I was disappointed when we lost but not nearly as frusterated since they were just outmanned at alot of positions.

The 2012 team frusterates me to no end because talent wise, we aren't deficient at most/any positions.

 

[Orangello]

yes we are talking about football---losing football---what ideas do you suggest or do you have any???1-3??? you must have some--- it all about the coaching now---and its on marrone