What Jim Phillips has done to unify ACC football

[Hoo's That]

GT began playing dook annually while still in the SEC. So, yes, both dook and Gt would prefer that that game remain annual.

That said, because dook football brings so little to the table, a lot of people with a say in the ACC would chuck it if somebody makes a case for why the league would benefit more from having GT play somebody else annually.

Duke and Ga Tech have played every year since 1937.

 

[WoadBlue]

Your opinion is something you are entitled too.
However how you say Miami and Virginia Tech don’t have a rivalry is strictly your opinion.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miami–Virginia_Tech_football_rivalry

I actually research this stuff because it’s something I want to see done.
Virginia Tech-Miami is football rivalry.
They have played every single season since 1992. The game matters in the Miami fanbase.

They hate Florida State the most but Miami’s 3+ 5/5
Would be a 1. Florida State 2. Virginia Tech 3. Open for discussion.

Syracuse had a stretch in the 90s we had a conference rivalry but kids today weren’t even born.

BTW I guarantee you my list is a lot closer to the end product.
Clemson is not giving up Florida State annually for Wake Foresf.

Below is my list of each school's 3 annual rivals in 3+5 (5) scheduling.

UNC - UVA, dook, NCSU
UVA - UNC, VT, BC
Dook - UNC, Wake, GT
VT - UVA, Miami, Lou
FSU - Miami, Clemson, GT
Miami - FSU, VT, Cuse
GT - Clemson, FSU, Dook
Clemson - GT, FSU, NCSU
Wake - Dook, NCSU, Lou
NCSU - UNC, Wake, Clem
BC - Pitt, Cuse, UVA
Cuse, BC, Pitt, Miami
Pitt - BC, Cuse, Lou
Lou - VT, Pitt, Wake

 

[WoadBlue]

Wouldn't have mattered.

ACC went for what they thought was the bigger TV market: Boston vs Syracuse.

Little did they know that BC fans don't watch TV.

Sure they do - when the Red Sox, Patriots, Bruins, or Celtics are on.

 

[Chip]

Below is my list of each school's 3 annual rivals in 3+5 (5) scheduling.

UNC - UVA, dook, NCSU
UVA - UNC, VT, BC
Dook - UNC, Wake, GT
VT - UVA, Miami, Lou
FSU - Miami, Clemson, GT
Miami - FSU, VT, Cuse
GT - Clemson, FSU, Dook
Clemson - GT, FSU, NCSU
Wake - Dook, NCSU, Lou
NCSU - UNC, Wake, Clem
BC - Pitt, Cuse, UVA
Cuse, BC, Pitt, Miami
Pitt - BC, Cuse, Lou
Lou - VT, Pitt, Wake

No Syracuse - Louisville. Someone get this guy a raise.

 

[CousCuse]

Sure they do - when the Red Sox, Patriots, Bruins, or Celtics are on.

BC has no fan base. The ACC should add UCONN and UMASS and lock up the new York, New England region of 36 million people. It then would have sole ownership of Virginia, North Carolina. New York and New England. Build up the northern flank. Notre Dame is in a no lose situation and they wouldn't mind seeing Syracuse and BC hurt as they like recruiting the same areas. Notre Dame is going to help tear apart the ACC just like they did the BigEast.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

Below is my list of each school's 3 annual rivals in 3+5 (5) scheduling.

UNC - UVA, dook, NCSU
UVA - UNC, VT, BC
Dook - UNC, Wake, GT
VT - UVA, Miami, Lou
FSU - Miami, Clemson, GT
Miami - FSU, VT, Cuse
GT - Clemson, FSU, Dook
Clemson - GT, FSU, NCSU
Wake - Dook, NCSU, Lou
NCSU - UNC, Wake, Clem
BC - Pitt, Cuse, UVA
Cuse, BC, Pitt, Miami
Pitt - BC, Cuse, Lou
Lou - VT, Pitt, Wake

I think BC-Miami and UVA-SU are better fits for all then SU-Miami and UVA-BC.

 

[syrBossHogg]

BC has no fan base. The ACC should add UCONN and UMASS and lock up the new York, New England region of 36 million people. It then would have sole ownership of Virginia, North Carolina. New York and New England. Build up the northern flank. Notre Dame is in a no lose situation and they wouldn't mind seeing Syracuse and BC hurt as they like recruiting the same areas. Notre Dame is going to help tear apart the ACC just like they did the BigEast.

And there it is, the UMass mention. This thread is now complete

 

[CousCuse]

And there it is, the UMass mention. This thread is now complete

The ACC can wait for Notre Dame to join, it doesn't look likely as they just let Kelly go and won't be competing for playoff spots for a couple of years anyways. They are content.

 

[Hoo's That]

Below is my list of each school's 3 annual rivals in 3+5 (5) scheduling.

UNC - UVA, dook, NCSU
UVA - UNC, VT, BC
Dook - UNC, Wake, GT
VT - UVA, Miami, Lou
FSU - Miami, Clemson, GT
Miami - FSU, VT, Cuse
GT - Clemson, FSU, Dook
Clemson - GT, FSU, NCSU
Wake - Dook, NCSU, Lou
NCSU - UNC, Wake, Clem
BC - Pitt, Cuse, UVA
Cuse, BC, Pitt, Miami
Pitt - BC, Cuse, Lou
Lou - VT, Pitt, Wake

Your list makes a ton of sense. I think it's more likely that UVa would get Louisville or Wake than BC, though. If we got Louisville, they could play one VA school at home and one on the road each year.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

Including this upcoming season historically (proposed 3 rivals in bold)

FSU
1. Miami 65
2. NC State 41
3. Wake 40
4. VA Tech 37
5. Clemson 35
6. GA Tech 26
7. tie Duke, UNC 21
9. tie BC, Louisville 20
11. UVA 19
12. SU 15
13. Pitt 10
I think Miami and Clemson are givens. They likely are going to want GA Tech as the 3rd. But could VA Tech or Louisville sneak in? Someone needs to take Louisville and FSU is one of the few schools that have played them.

Miami
1. FSU 65
2. Pitt 42
3. VA Tech 40
4. BC 30
5. GA Tech 27
6. UNC 26
7. SU 23
8. Duke 20
9. UVA 20
10. NC State 17
11. Clemson 13
12. Louisville 12
13. Wake 9
I think FSU and VA Tech are givens. Can't see SU getting Miami over Pitt or even BC. If FSU plays Louisville instead of GA Tech, then Miami and play GA Tech. It works out better.

Clemson
1. Wake 88
2. NC State 87
3. GA Tech 86
4. UNC 56
5. Duke 54
6. UVA 49
7. FSU 35
8. VA Tech 34
9. BC 32
10. Miami 13
11. SU 11
12. Louisville 8
13. Pitt 5
Seems odd to not have a team play their #1. I think the other 3 are set.

GA Tech
1. Duke 90
2. Clemson 86
3. UNC 57
4. UVA 44
5. tie NC State, Wake 31
7. Miami 27
8. FSU 26
9. VA Tech 19
10. Pitt 17
11. BC 11
12. SU 4
13. Louisville 2
First 2 are a given. Would FSU be happy playing GA Tech every other year? That would allow GA Tech to potentially keep UVA.

UNC
1. UVA 117
2. Wake 105
3. tie Duke, NC State 102
5. GA Tech 57
6. Clemson 56
7. VA Tech 40
8. Miami 26
9. FSU 21
10. Pitt 16
11. tie BC, Louisville 8
13. SU 6
The 3 are a given but it is a shame to not play Wake yearly.

Duke
1. UNC 102
2. Wake 98
3. GA Tech 90
4. NC State 83
5. UVA 70
6. Clemson 54
7. VA Tech 30
8. Pitt 26
9. FSU 21
10. Miami 20
11. BC 6
12. SU 5
13. Louisville 3
Top 3 are a given. Too bad they can't play NC State too. They will miss UVA as well.

NC State
1. Wake 115
2. UNC 102
3. Clemson 87
4. Duke 83
5. UVA 56
6. VA Tech 48
7. FSU 41
8. GA Tech 31
9. BC 18
10. Miami 17
11. SU 16
12. tie Louisville, Pitt 11
The top 3 are givens. Sad that they do not play Duke yearly.

Wake
1. NC State 115
2. UNC 105
3. Duke 98
4. Clemson 88
5. UVA 50
6. FSU 40
7. VA Tech 39
8. GA Tech 31
9. BC 29
10. SU 12
11. Louisville 10
12. Miami 9
13. Pitt 2
It would seem wrong to not have them playing UNC and Clemson yearly, yet get stuck with say Louisville. Maybe they get UVA as the 3rd? I know Wake has no pull but do we kick them this much?

UVA
1. UNC 117
2. VA Tech 99
3. Duke 70
4. NC State 56
5. Wake 50
6. Clemson 49
7. GA Tech 44
8. Miami 20
9. FSU 19
10. Pitt 14
11. Louisville 11
12. BC 7
13. SU 6
First 2 are a given. They are going to want Duke but can't fit them. I would love SU-UVA but that is their least played opponent. I could see them ending up with Wake as the 3rd. I think they get screwed the most with no divisions.

VA Tech
1. UVA 99
2. NC State 48
3. tie UNC, Miami 40
5. Wake 39
6. FSU 37
7. Clemson 34
8. BC 31
9. Duke 30
10. Pitt 22
11. tie GA Tech, SU 19
13. Louisville 8
UVA and Miami are givens. Do you really given them Louisville? Wake and FSU are candidates.

SU
1. Pitt 78
2. BC 55
3. Miami 23
4. Louisville 21
5. VA Tech 19
6. NC State 16
7. FSU 15
8. Wake 12
9. Clemson 11
10. tie UNC, UVA 6
12. Duke 5
13. GA Tech 4
Pitt and BC should be a given. After that there isn't much to go on. Louisville being 4th is scary.

BC
1. SU 55
2. tie Clemson, Pitt 32
4. VA Tech 31
5. Miami 30
6. Wake 29
7. FSU 20
8. NC State 18
9. Louisville 15
10. GA Tech 11
11. UNC 8
12. UVA 7
13. Duke 6
SU is a given. Then 2-6 minus Clemson are all possible.

Pitt
1. SU 78
2. Miami 42
3. BC 32
4. Duke 26
5. VA Tech 22
6. Louisville 19
7. GA Tech 17
8. UNC 16
9. UVA 14
10. NC State 11
11. FSU 10
12. Clemson 5
13. Wake 2
SU is a given. I think they get stuck with Louisville. How in the heck can you be in a conference with a team you have played only 2 times?

Louisville
1. SU 21
2. FSU 20
3. Pitt 19
4. BC 15
5. Miami 12
6. tie NC State, UVA11
8. Wake 10
9. tie Clemson, UNC, VA Tech 8
12. Duke 3
13. GA Tech 2
Would be odd to not give them their #1 but please God no. Just about everyone else is even. Pitt makes sense location wise.

 

[orangecuse]

The 2003 expansion was supposed to be Miami, SU, and BC. Then Mark Warner and the other VA politicians got involved, pledging to save the economy of SW VA by getting VPI into the conference instead if SU. 99.9999999% of UVa fans wanted SU and not VPI.

Oh man! That mention brings back some serious pain. This place is well aware of all that went down back then, well, at least the past variation of this board, Rivals or Scout, I can't recall. Shortly after the conference's formality type inspection of the SU grounds, etc., as you mentioned, the governor, Warner, went DEFCON 1. Afterwards, it was rather apocalyptic at the time around here for a bit.

 

[Willy75]

Including this upcoming season historically (proposed 3 rivals in bold)

FSU
1. Miami 65
2. NC State 41
3. Wake 40
4. VA Tech 37
5. Clemson 35
6. GA Tech 26
7. tie Duke, UNC 21
9. tie BC, Louisville 20
11. UVA 19
12. SU 15
13. Pitt 10
I think Miami and Clemson are givens. They likely are going to want GA Tech as the 3rd. But could VA Tech or Louisville sneak in? Someone needs to take Louisville and FSU is one of the few schools that have played them.

Miami
1. FSU 65
2. Pitt 42
3. VA Tech 40
4. BC 30
5. GA Tech 27
6. UNC 26
7. SU 23
8. Duke 20
9. UVA 20
10. NC State 17
11. Clemson 13
12. Louisville 12
13. Wake 9
I think FSU and VA Tech are givens. Can't see SU getting Miami over Pitt or even BC. If FSU plays Louisville instead of GA Tech, then Miami and play GA Tech. It works out better.

Clemson
1. Wake 88
2. NC State 87
3. GA Tech 86
4. UNC 56
5. Duke 54
6. UVA 49
7. FSU 35
8. VA Tech 34
9. BC 32
10. Miami 13
11. SU 11
12. Louisville 8
13. Pitt 5
Seems odd to not have a team play their #1. I think the other 3 are set.

GA Tech
1. Duke 90
2. Clemson 86
3. UNC 57
4. UVA 44
5. tie NC State, Wake 31
7. Miami 27
8. FSU 26
9. VA Tech 19
10. Pitt 17
11. BC 11
12. SU 4
13. Louisville 2
First 2 are a given. Would FSU be happy playing GA Tech every other year? That would allow GA Tech to potentially keep UVA.

UNC
1. UVA 117
2. Wake 105
3. tie Duke, NC State 102
5. GA Tech 57
6. Clemson 56
7. VA Tech 40
8. Miami 26
9. FSU 21
10. Pitt 16
11. tie BC, Louisville 8
13. SU 6
The 3 are a given but it is a shame to not play Wake yearly.

Duke
1. UNC 102
2. Wake 98
3. GA Tech 90
4. NC State 83
5. UVA 70
6. Clemson 54
7. VA Tech 30
8. Pitt 26
9. FSU 21
10. Miami 20
11. BC 6
12. SU 5
13. Louisville 3
Top 3 are a given. Too bad they can't play NC State too. They will miss UVA as well.

NC State
1. Wake 115
2. UNC 102
3. Clemson 87
4. Duke 83
5. UVA 56
6. VA Tech 48
7. FSU 41
8. GA Tech 31
9. BC 18
10. Miami 17
11. SU 16
12. tie Louisville, Pitt 11
The top 3 are givens. Sad that they do not play Duke yearly.

Wake
1. NC State 115
2. UNC 105
3. Duke 98
4. Clemson 88
5. UVA 50
6. FSU 40
7. VA Tech 39
8. GA Tech 31
9. BC 29
10. SU 12
11. Louisville 10
12. Miami 9
13. Pitt 2
It would seem wrong to not have them playing UNC and Clemson yearly, yet get stuck with say Louisville. Maybe they get UVA as the 3rd? I know Wake has no pull but do we kick them this much?

UVA
1. UNC 117
2. VA Tech 99
3. Duke 70
4. NC State 56
5. Wake 50
6. Clemson 49
7. GA Tech 44
8. Miami 20
9. FSU 19
10. Pitt 14
11. Louisville 11
12. BC 7
13. SU 6
First 2 are a given. They are going to want Duke but can't fit them. I would love SU-UVA but that is their least played opponent. I could see them ending up with Wake as the 3rd. I think they get screwed the most with no divisions.

VA Tech
1. UVA 99
2. NC State 48
3. tie UNC, Miami 40
5. Wake 39
6. FSU 37
7. Clemson 34
8. BC 31
9. Duke 30
10. Pitt 22
11. tie GA Tech, SU 19
13. Louisville 8
UVA and Miami are givens. Do you really given them Louisville? Wake and FSU are candidates.

SU
1. Pitt 78
2. BC 55
3. Miami 23
4. Louisville 21
5. VA Tech 19
6. NC State 16
7. FSU 15
8. Wake 12
9. Clemson 11
10. tie UNC, UVA 6
12. Duke 5
13. GA Tech 4
Pitt and BC should be a given. After that there isn't much to go on. Louisville being 4th is scary.

BC
1. SU 55
2. tie Clemson, Pitt 32
4. VA Tech 31
5. Miami 30
6. Wake 29
7. FSU 20
8. NC State 18
9. Louisville 15
10. GA Tech 11
11. UNC 8
12. UVA 7
13. Duke 6
SU is a given. Then 2-6 minus Clemson are all possible.

Pitt
1. SU 78
2. Miami 42
3. BC 32
4. Duke 26
5. VA Tech 22
6. Louisville 19
7. GA Tech 17
8. UNC 16
9. UVA 14
10. NC State 11
11. FSU 10
12. Clemson 5
13. Wake 2
SU is a given. I think they get stuck with Louisville. How in the heck can you be in a conference with a team you have played only 2 times?

Louisville
1. SU 21
2. FSU 20
3. Pitt 19
4. BC 15
5. Miami 12
6. tie NC State, UVA11
8. Wake 10
9. tie Clemson, UNC, VA Tech 8
12. Duke 3
13. GA Tech 2
Would be odd to not give them their #1 but please God no. Just about everyone else is even. Pitt makes sense location wise.

We’ve played WVU 61 times.

 

[Willy75]

Orange football wasn't fearing any team at that time, and beat a good many top dogs.

That we did including No. 1 Nebraska. But I remembered wrong about Woody. It was Clemson (another team in orange) that drove him crazy in a bowl game.

 

[longtimefan]

Ummm, no we weren't. Notre Dame and Miami were way ahead of us.

Miami yes, Notre Dame no.

ND was 8-3 in 1987, and got walloped in the Cotton Bowl by Texas A&M.

 

[baggerbob]

If you think I'm a nut because my head exploded when I saw the SEC add Texas and Oklahoma and LSU go out and hire Kelley away from Notre Dame and SEC basketball becoming the no.1 conference with Auburn paying Pearl 5 million plus then ok. I can tell you the people who run athletic departments have had the same reaction.

Yes that was the intent (Miami, BC, SU) but the ACC took Miami and VA Tech first. SU and BC then committed to the Big East, but BC lied. SU should have pushed for the ACC. Maybe BC is still chosen, but we should have tried harder.

It was supposed to be Miami, SU, and BC was the 3rd. Miami wanted SU, and if Jake had been assertive it would have been us.

 

[Alsacs]

It was supposed to be Miami, SU, and BC was the 3rd. Miami wanted SU, and if Jake had been assertive it would have been us.

Jake wanted to go.
Jim Boeheim went on OTL nightly and was passionate we shouldn’t be leaving the BE.

That was before TV money and football was what it would become.

Jake retired affer we didn’t go to the ACC and BE was going to 16.

We could have fought for the 12th spot when VPI and Miami went in 2003.
Instead we went back to the BE and Jake retired. Gross popped P after the 2004 and we went into the chitter.

 

[Willy75]

Jake wanted to go.
Jim Boeheim went on OTL nightly and was passionate we shouldn’t be leaving the BE.

That was before TV money and football was what it would become.

Jake retired affer we didn’t go to the ACC and BE was going to 16.

We could have fought for the 12th spot when VPI and Miami went in 2003.
Instead we went back to the BE and Jake retired. Gross popped P after the 2004 and we went into the chitter.

JB was wrong.

 

[Willy75]

JB was wrong.

The Big East was becoming unrecognizable in football, a collection of second tier mega schools we would have trouble competing with and no tradition competing against. Gross did wrong by Pasqualoni and the GRob hire turned out awful, but getting SU into the ACC was done skillfully and is institutionally far, far more important. Who would trade our position now for UConn’s?

 

[WoadBlue]

Jake wanted to go.
Jim Boeheim went on OTL nightly and was passionate we shouldn’t be leaving the BE.

That was before TV money and football was what it would become.

Jake retired affer we didn’t go to the ACC and BE was going to 16.

We could have fought for the 12th spot when VPI and Miami went in 2003.
Instead we went back to the BE and Jake retired. Gross popped P after the 2004 and we went into the chitter.

Football then was already what it is. Boeheim was just a Syracuse version of what I call ACC basketball-onlys/basketball-firsters. They have never understood that football is simply bigger and much more important.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

I'm glad things worked out as they did.

Think of what we would have missed if we joined the ACC in 2004 or 2005...

1. GMac's swollen onions in the 2006 BET.
2. The 6 OT game.
3. CJ Fair's "how do you do" over Otto Porter.
4. Doug Marrone taking Geno Smith behind the woodshed. Not once but twice.

 

[kcsu]

Football then was already what it is. Boeheim was just a Syracuse version of what I call ACC basketball-onlys/basketball-firsters. They have never understood that football is simply bigger and much more important.

JB didnt want to play in the Dome

 

[HRE Otto IV]

I think the 4+ model will be needed. I tried to limit the pool to teams that either were in that school's Top 5 or were in another school's Top 5 teams played. The best I could come up with is below. Most schools get their Top 3 opponents. The 3+5/5 model leaves out too many of these games.


FSU- Miami, Clemson, GA Tech, Louisville
They get their #1 but don't get #2, #3, or #4. But they do get the big game vs #5 Clemson and the close game vs GA Tech.

Miami- FSU, Pitt, VA Tech, BC
They get their Top 4.

Clemson- Wake, NC State, GA Tech, FSU
They get their Top 3 plus the big game vs FSU.

GA Tech- Duke, Clemson, UVA, FSU
They have their Top 2 and #4. Plus the close game vs FSU.

UNC- UVA, Wake, Duke, NC State
They get their Top 4.

Duke- UNC, Wake, Duke, UVA
They get the Top 3 and #5.

NC State- Wake, UNC, Clemson, Louisville
The Top 3 are there but they get stuck with Louisville.

Wake- NC State, UNC, Duke, Clemson
They have their Top 4.

UVA- UNC, VA Tech, Duke, GA Tech
The Top 3 are there plus a traditional opponent.

VA Tech- UVA, Miami, BC, SU
#1 and #3 are there, plus two old Big East foes.

SU- Pitt, BC, Louisville, VA Tech
We get our Top 2 plus #4 and #5.

BC- SU, Pitt, VA Tech, Miami
They are only missing #2 from their Top 5.

Pitt- SU, Miami, BC, Louisville
The Top 3 plus a team close by.

Louisville- SU, FSU, Pitt, NC State
Again we see a Top 3. NC State gets stuck with Louisville.

 

[sufandu]

Miami yes, Notre Dame no.

ND was 8-3 in 1987, and got walloped in the Cotton Bowl by Texas A&M.

You're looking at just one year? In that era, they were considered superior as a program. They won a NC the next year.

 

[longtimefan]

You're looking at just one year? In that era, they were considered superior as a program. They won a NC the next year.

The way I read it, 1987 was the subject.

And, by the way, Tim Brown stole the Heisman from Don McPherson that season.

 

[orangecuse]

JB was wrong.

JB didnt want to play in the Dome

By far, two of the most significant/monumental beneficial events in the history, health, wealth, future etc. of Syracuse Athletics. And, both times JB couldn’t have been any more wrong than what he was.