What Jim Phillips has done to unify ACC football

[Alsacs]

And Clemson, FSU, NCST and VT are prime programs for flight to the SEC. The income spread is getting too wide. I expect to hear some of these programs being in contact with the SEC anytime now.

What you expect and reality of the situations that can be easily researched are so far apart I can’t be bothered to give you the facts.

 

[kcsu]

Virginia Tech and Miami like playing each other.
They have played every single season since both joined the Big East.
If we were good SU-Miami could possibly happen.

Virginia Tech-Miami gets TV attention.
That game won’t be cut if the 3/5+5 happens.

Syracuse football isn’t going to get any favors.
Its why Louisville would likely be our 3rd team.
When i do these lists i think of history, TV appeal and potential.

TV is why Florida State-Clemson won’t stop being annual. That is the ACC’s closest SEC matchup and those teams like playing annually.

Not many fans would realize Duke-Georgia Tech is a football rivalry and those schools would want to play every year in a 3-5+5.

Our 3rd team is likely Louisville or Wake.

Hope its wake

 

[CousCuse]

At one point ever was Syracuse football the number one independent program.
I want to post the Billy Madison gif but you are trolling.

Syracuse was a national power at that moment in time. They played for a National Championship in '87.

 

[gbo]

It isn't a rivalry but it is tradition. CFB is so much about tradition. I don't like throwing that away if you don't have to. Wake is their most played ACC opponent. It would be a shame if they only play every other year. Also you really screw Wake as the don't have UNC or Clemson yearly. And they will end up with BC or SU in return.

I get what you're saying but Clemson is not going to give up FSU for Wake. It just isn't going to happen.

 

[Hoo's That]

These schools are easy to get 3 annuals.
Clemson- Florida State, Georgia Tech, NC State
North Carolina- Duke, Virginia, NC State
NC State- North Carolina, Clemson, Wake Forest
Duke- Georgia Tech, North Carolina, Wake Forest

These schools have 2 prerty easy
Miami- Florida State, Virginia Tech
Boston College- Syracuse, Pittsburgh
Syracuse- Boston College, Pittsburgh
Georgia Tech- Duke, Clemson
Wake Forest- Duke, NC State
Virginia Tech-Miami, Virginia
Florida State- Miami, Clemson,
Virginia- Virginia Tech, North Carolina,
Pittsburgh- Boston College, Syracuse

1 school with zsro
Louisville

Then fill in the blanks.
I mean its easy to fill in the rest but its not hard.
Virginia-Louisville have been “rivals” since UMd left.

So give Louisville-Virginia, Wake Forest, Syracuse.
Boston College-Virginia Tech
Pittsburgh-Miami
Georgia Tech-Florida State

The UVa-Louisville matchup was the easiest move for the ACC to make. In all sports, the ACC just crossed out "Maryland" and wrote "Louisville" on every schedule. The only deviation from picking up Maryland's home-and-away rotations in all sports was that UVa was supposed to have the home game as the last game of the men's basketball season in Louisville's first year in the conference, but they gave it to them instead. The Louisville fans would like to have VPI as a permanent rival in football because it's about 100 miles closer to them than UVa is.

As you list, we have to play UNC. VPI is another have-to-play game, but secondary in importance to UNC. The third team is just an add-on and it really doesn't matter who it is.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

At that time, SU football was the number 1 independent program. Wish we could've signed a deal with the YES network for football and LAX.

In hindsight, SU should have went hard after a B1G invite back in the early 90s when they were exploring a 12th team. Then we should have kept close contact. After 2003 we should have tired to use our NCAA championship and the potential ACC invite as incentive to get into the B1G. Then instead of blind sighting the B1G by accepting the ACC invite we should have tried to use it as leverage. Maybe the B1G strikes first and takes SU and RU.

Additionally we should have gone harder after the original ACC invite instead of letting BC sneak in.

 

[CousCuse]

What you expect and reality of the situations that can be easily researched are so far apart I can’t be bothered to give you the facts.

If you think I'm a nut because my head exploded when I saw the SEC add Texas and Oklahoma and LSU go out and hire Kelley away from Notre Dame and SEC basketball becoming the no.1 conference with Auburn paying Pearl 5 million plus then ok. I can tell you the people who run athletic departments have had the same reaction.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

I get what you're saying but Clemson is not going to give up FSU for Wake. It just isn't going to happen.

I agree. My point was why not keep both?

 

[Scooch]

I wish the BigEast had never formed a football conference.

Then we would have joined the ACC in 1992.

 

[Hoo's That]

In hindsight, SU should have went hard after a B1G invite back in the early 90s when they were exploring a 12th team. Then we should have kept close contact. After 2003 we should have tired to use our NCAA championship and the potential ACC invite as incentive to get into the B1G. Then instead of blind sighting the B1G by accepting the ACC invite we should have tried to use it as leverage. Maybe the B1G strikes first and takes SU and RU.

Additionally we should have gone harder after the original ACC invite instead of letting BC sneak in.

The 2003 expansion was supposed to be Miami, SU, and BC. Then Mark Warner and the other VA politicians got involved, pledging to save the economy of SW VA by getting VPI into the conference instead if SU. 99.9999999% of UVa fans wanted SU and not VPI.

 

[Scooch]

In hindsight, SU should have went hard after a B1G invite back in the early 90s when they were exploring a 12th team. Then we should have kept close contact. After 2003 we should have tired to use our NCAA championship and the potential ACC invite as incentive to get into the B1G. Then instead of blind sighting the B1G by accepting the ACC invite we should have tried to use it as leverage. Maybe the B1G strikes first and takes SU and RU.

Additionally we should have gone harder after the original ACC invite instead of letting BC sneak in.

The ACC is, by far, a much better home for us than the B1G. Institutionally, geographically, athletically. It's not even close.

 

[syrBossHogg]

If the ACC is doing this against ESPN's wishes, they will exact a price for that. If this contract with ESPN is forcing the ACC down a road to non competitiveness, then litigate. Notre Dame is not going to join the ACC and it's going to end up destroying the conference.

You don't think Phillips and the ACC realized that before they voted against expansion?

 

[HRE Otto IV]

The UVa-Louisville matchup was the easiest move for the ACC to make. In all sports, the ACC just crossed out "Maryland" and wrote "Louisville" on every schedule. The only deviation from picking up Maryland's home-and-away rotations in all sports was that UVa was supposed to have the home game as the last game of the men's basketball season in Louisville's first year in the conference, but they gave it to them instead. The Louisville fans would like to have VPI as a permanent rival in football because it's about 100 miles closer to them than UVa is.

As you list, we have to play UNC. VPI is another have-to-play game, but secondary in importance to UNC. The third team is just an add-on and it really doesn't matter who it is.

It was the laziest move. In 2014 Clemson was not yet Clemson. If you swapped FSU-Miami and VA Tech-SU then you have even divisions and an even zipper format.

Miami-FSU
Clemson-GA Tech
Louisville-Pitt
NC State-UNC
Wake-Duke
VA Tech-UVA
BC-SU

Both sides have 2 small private schools (Wake/BC and Duke/SU), both sides have a Florida school (Miami and FSU), both sides have 2 NC schools (NC State/Wake and UNC/Duke), both sides have a VA school (VA Tech and UVA), both sides have a Southern school (Clemson and GA Tech), both sides have a Western school (Louisville and Pitt), and both sides have a Northern school (BC and SU). It would have been perfect.

Instead we likely see an ACC CG of:

2014 FSU vs Clemson (9-3) instead of GA Tech (10-2)
2015 Clemson vs UNC (same)
2016 Clemson vs UNC (8-4) instead of VA Tech (9-3)
2017 Clemson vs GA Tech (5-6) instead of Miami (10-1) which is a lot worse
2018 Clemson vs Pitt (same)
2019 Clemson vs UVA (same)
2021 Wake vs Pitt (same)

 

[CousCuse]

You don't think Phillips and the ACC realized that before they voted against expansion?

I would imagine so, but this is a huge gambit for all the marbles. There seems to be some non alignment between the ACC and ESPN.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

The ACC is, by far, a much better home for us than the B1G. Institutionally, geographically, athletically. It's not even close.

Financially it is not. If we had more money it would be easier to fix FB, BBall, and the rest of the sports. There is also more stability in the B1G.

I agree 110% with the better fit being the ACC.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

The 2003 expansion was supposed to be Miami, SU, and BC. Then Mark Warner and the other VA politicians got involved, pledging to save the economy of SW VA by getting VPI into the conference instead if SU. 99.9999999% of UVa fans wanted SU and not VPI.

Yes that was the intent (Miami, BC, SU) but the ACC took Miami and VA Tech first. SU and BC then committed to the Big East, but BC lied. SU should have pushed for the ACC. Maybe BC is still chosen, but we should have tried harder.

 

[syrBossHogg]

I would imagine so, but this is a huge gambit for all the marbles. There seems to be some non alignment between the ACC and ESPN.

Both sides are looking in their best interests, just as in any business deal.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

Yes that was the intent (Miami, BC, SU) but the ACC took Miami and VA Tech first. SU and BC then committed to the Big East, but BC lied. SU should have pushed for the ACC. Maybe BC is still chosen, but we should have tried harder.

Wouldn't have mattered.

ACC went for what they thought was the bigger TV market: Boston vs Syracuse.

Little did they know that BC fans don't watch TV.

 

[Scooch]

Financially it is not. If we had more money it would be easier to fix FB, BBall, and the rest of the sports. There is also more stability in the B1G.

I agree 110% with the better fit being the ACC.

How much revenue do we need to "fix" things? Institutionally SU is never going to be a school that throws $10 million at a football head coach. By all accounts we pay market rate for our staff, which pre-ACC was a big problem. The extra $20 million a year we'd get from the B1G isn't enough to put a huge dent in our ongoing facilities needs -- that money needs to come from deep pocketed donors and low rate loans.

What we make from being in the ACC is plenty enough to have competitive football and hoops programs, IMHO.

The downside of playing games in Des Moines, Minneapolis, West Lafayette and Bloomington far outweighs the financial side of things.

 

[Scooch]

Wouldn't have mattered.

ACC went for what they thought was the bigger TV market: Boston vs Syracuse.

Little did they know that BC fans don't watch TV.

Doesn't even matter if people watch. What mattered was getting affiliate deals with Boston TV stations and regional sports networks, which was far more lucrative than deals for Syracuse. You're right, we never had a shot against BC no matter how hard we "tried". Boston is Boston, we lose.

 

[TheCusian]

And Clemson, FSU, NCST and VT are prime programs for flight to the SEC. The income spread is getting too wide. I expect to hear some of these programs being in contact with the SEC anytime now.

I don’t think they’ll be joining the SEC per se. More of a “premiere league” level.

It’s all in the wind until something actually happens. Won’t be right away though.

 

[TheCusian]

I would imagine so, but this is a huge gambit for all the marbles. There seems to be some non alignment between the ACC and ESPN.

The article that started this whole thing was from ESPN. It smoothes a lot of stuff out and explains it in a way that says there is no ill will.

Read between the lines

 

[HRE Otto IV]

It was the laziest move. In 2014 Clemson was not yet Clemson. If you swapped FSU-Miami and VA Tech-SU then you have even divisions and an even zipper format.

Miami-FSU
Clemson-GA Tech
Louisville-Pitt
NC State-UNC
Wake-Duke
VA Tech-UVA
BC-SU

Both sides have 2 small private schools (Wake/BC and Duke/SU), both sides have a Florida school (Miami and FSU), both sides have 2 NC schools (NC State/Wake and UNC/Duke), both sides have a VA school (VA Tech and UVA), both sides have a Southern school (Clemson and GA Tech), both sides have a Western school (Louisville and Pitt), and both sides have a Northern school (BC and SU). It would have been perfect.

Instead we likely see an ACC CG of:

2014 FSU vs Clemson (9-3) instead of GA Tech (10-2)
2015 Clemson vs UNC (same)
2016 Clemson vs UNC (8-4) instead of VA Tech (9-3)
2017 Clemson vs GA Tech (5-6) instead of Miami (10-1) which is a lot worse
2018 Clemson vs Pitt (same)
2019 Clemson vs UVA (same)
2021 Wake vs Pitt (same)

Actually come to think of it the mistake was in 2005 not in 2014. It should have been:

Miami-FSU
Clemson-GA Tech
BC-MD
NC State-UNC
Wake-Duke
VA Tech-UVA

Then in 2013 you put SU opposite BC, and Pitt opposite MD. When Louisville replaced MD you flip Pitt to the Coastal.

 

[WoadBlue]

Virginia Tech and Miami like playing each other.
They have played every single season since both joined the Big East.
If we were good SU-Miami could possibly happen.

Virginia Tech-Miami gets TV attention.
That game won’t be cut if the 3/5+5 happens.

Syracuse football isn’t going to get any favors.
Its why Louisville would likely be our 3rd team.
When i do these lists i think of history, TV appeal and potential.

TV is why Florida State-Clemson won’t stop being annual. That is the ACC’s closest SEC matchup and those teams like playing annually.

Not many fans would realize Duke-Georgia Tech is a football rivalry and those schools would want to play every year in a 3-5+5.

Our 3rd team is likely Louisville or Wake.

GT began playing dook annually while still in the SEC. So, yes, both dook and Gt would prefer that that game remain annual.

That said, because dook football brings so little to the table, a lot of people with a say in the ACC would chuck it if somebody makes a case for why the league would benefit more from having GT play somebody else annually.

 

[CousCuse]

The article that started this whole thing was from ESPN. It smoothes a lot of stuff out and explains it in a way that says there is no ill will.

Read between the lines

More money from ESPN would smooth some feathers.