What worries me the most... | Page 2 | Syracusefan.com

What worries me the most...

Orangefizz said:
I know I’m in the minority here but why is everyone so down on a triple option style offense? It has proven to be effective for teams who are not able to compete at the same talent level as their opponents. In my opinion Syracuse will always be behind the eight ball when it comes to acquiring talent, especially versus our southern ACC peers. Finishing in the bottom 3 in ACC recruiting every year will never give us a legitimate chance to be consistently good, let alone occasionally great.
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I'm coming around to it. Ball control and neutralizing athleticism gaps seems appealing. The style of play does not.
 
orlandoorange said:
I'm not saying Dino is or isn't the guy. I do think we can do better than 7-5 though at this point I'd be happy with 7-5.

Some people are born to rich parents, most aren't, but that doesn't mean they can't succeed. The same is true of an organization, which is what an athletic department is.

Sometimes you get lucky and your athletic department is in the heart of football country, sometimes you have to work a little harder.

9 times out of 10 it comes down to hiring the right people.
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More to this issue than " hard work". This isn't a regional sales meeting trying to squeeze another 5% out of your reps.
 
TheCusian said:
The floor was last season. This years results should be tossed in the ocean
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Huh.? Tell that to Notre Dame or Liberty. Cherry picking doesn't work in sports. Spin doesn't work, we got a beat down by Duke at home. Ostritch thinking. We are on the floor and its sinking.
 
corpjet said:
If a guy like Fickel can do it at Cincinnati no reason Dino can’t do it here, enough of the excuses

I realize UC doesnt play in Power 5 conference and have the competition of the ACC but he has an American Conference school in the top 10 while pulling in 4* recruits from across the country.

Dino is going to have to go the Juco route to fill many of the holes on both sides of the trenches and hope a QB pans out sooner than later.

The current status of the program relies on HCDBs shoulders and it’s up to him to fix this fast.

As a fan base I don’t think we have unreal expectations, finish .500 and take us to a bowl. No reason this can’t do that on an annual basis
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Look at all the Ohio kids on that roster:

 
alphaorange said:
SU fans are by nature pessimists, although I'm an optimist. I believe we were positioned to have a decent season until op-outs and injuries, and Covid. Lat years recruiting class is a good one and the next will be even better. Ratings matter, but they are not the end all. We have to accept that our guys will not be the size they need to be as freshman (typically) and will need a year or two on development before we see what they are. When it gets to the point where we are playing mostly Jr and Sr, we will be good.
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All you mention is the players......coaching needs to be fixed first. A lot of decision making issues across the board. We all know about the play calling, game management, players on the field, etc. No need to get into that anymore.
 
I'd be more worried if these loses came with us rolling out a team of 85 strong with upperclassmen everywhere. Why we don't have upperclassmen everywhere is a different story that hopefully we're addressing moving forward.
 
Bayside44 said:
Look at all the Ohio kids on that roster:

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We need to tap into that. I know our league goes south and east for the most part, but Ohio isn't Idaho. Most of it is easy driving distance to Syracuse as well as an annual away game at Pitt/Louisville.

Have to assume Fickell won't be there long, need to take advantage. I know Cincy, like Temple, has been pretty good about replacing coaches, but still... Get an Ohio relationship guy on staff.
 
Chip said:
We need to tap into that. I know our league goes south and east for the most part, but Ohio isn't Idaho. Most of it is easy driving distance to Syracuse as well as an annual away game at Pitt/Louisville.

Have to assume Fickell won't be there long, need to take advantage. I know Cincy, like Temple, has been pretty good about replacing coaches, but still... Get an Ohio relationship guy on staff.
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That's the fundamental problem, they are loaded up with local program guys. We no longer have that. Doesn't mean that we cannot be successful but NY kids, esp anything you would define as upstate, are like needles in haystacks.
 
IthacaBarrel said:
Sure we can find another head coach, but we will still be right where we are now, rebuilding a roster. I look at it this way, Dino shot and missed on what he thought would work at Syracuse for sure with regard to a ton of stuff.. He also had a great 10-3 season and some good wins, He also has lost a ton of games and this year has been nothing short of a disaster. That said, I would like to think he's learned something in his time here. We shall see over the next few years.

Again, NO COACH WHO HAS TAKEN THIS JOB THE PAST 20 YEARS HAS BEEN PREPARED FOR IT. It is a very very difficult task to win at Syracuse consistently let alone to recruit here and by the time most realize that they have been fired or moved on

. . . .

IMO, there is no quick fix and that includes a new head coach.
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I agree with much of your post — building a winning program is a tough challenge. As a practical matter, we are going to stick with Dino and give his new coordinators the chance to help turn things around. Try to string together a couple of better recruiting classes, build around Tony White’s defense, and get better QB play as the young kids develop.

I think, though, that Marrone was prepared, knew our situation and Eastern football, had a plan, had two bowl wins in 4 seasons, and did enough to get his NFL opportunity. Why? He focused on his lines, hired assistants who had connections downstate (Anselmo) and jucos (Adkins). and used transfers to fill holes in his line-up. It wasn’t fancy — defense and basic football, until in year 4 he had a good offense in Nassib’s senior year.
 
I don't think he's the guy for a lot of reasons but most importantly, he is not recruiting at the level needed for long term sustained success in the ACC, has been hit or miss with his staff and is a poor game day manager IMHO. I would give him one more year but need to see serious improvement in all of these phases or next man up.
 
IthacaBarrel said:
I just don't agree with this. Certainly sounds good and want to believe it but it's just not true, IMO. We can have some good seasons and consistent 7-5 seasons which would be great, IMO but I think that's about the ceiling here. It would take a truly special special coach to do anything better than that over a long period of time. The odds are he won't be here that long to find out either. Can only bring a knife to a gun fight so many times and get away with it.

People should look at the old rosters of when we were really good, NYS football has gone in the dumps, NJ/PA/ Florida are being recruiting by everyone. It's just such a different game ( recruiting) than it was 30 years ago and we have pretty much been left behind. Lucky to be in the ACC and try to play catch up

I don't see why many people think that another head coach and choose anyone within reason could recruit circles around Dino, sorry I just don't see it. Not going to happen, IMO. It's about the product you have to sell. Posts like " the new roof should help!!" Really? Come on!

Sure we can find another head coach, but we will still be right where we are now, rebuilding a roster. I look at it this way, Dino shot and missed on what he thought would work at Syracuse for sure with regard to a ton of stuff.. He also had a great 10-3 season and some good wins, He also has lost a ton of games and this year has been nothing short of a disaster. That said, I would like to think he's learned something in his time here. We shall see over the next few years.

Again, NO COACH WHO HAS TAKEN THIS JOB THE PAST 20 YEARS HAS BEEN PREPARED FOR IT. It is a very very difficult task to win at Syracuse consistently let alone to recruit here and by the time most realize that they have been fired or moved on

In addition, most posters here were SCREAMING for an extension for Dino in 2018. ( Including myself) I hope Wildhack knows what he is doing etc was posted everywhere. Well he got the extension now we have to live with it, for now. There was a reason for that though too, the extension that is.

IMO, there is no quick fix and that includes a new head coach.
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A lot of truth in this post. People just refuse to believe it. They are expecting a staff of miracle recruiters to sell a losing product to 4/5 stars. After 20 years of this, we have to realize that things are different from the 90's. We don't have the freeze option offense and we are not getting one of the top option QB's in the nation. We can be a 7-10 win team but bringing in new coaches every 4-5 years its hurting us more. With that said, 6 years should be enough to know. They have to make a move if we lose again next year.
 
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Crusty said:
This is not meant to be a slam on Dino. I am not a fan of changing coaches over and over as I think it can make matters worse. There are few miracle workers out there and even fewer we can hire. We have a quality coach fighting an uphill battle and we should stick with him.

That said, I don't see a turnaround anytime soon. We simply don't have the guys in the trenches and this recruiting class is not the cavalry. They are years away from making any real difference even if they are somewhat more talented.

At some point, we have to stop rationalizing last in conference classes. They are what they are and our record proves it. We can't compete with this level talent unless they have serious experience.

The results don't reveal Dino as the difference maker recruiter we hoped he would be. I had hoped that system would make up for some of the talent gap, but now that doesn't seem so either.

I fear that we're in for a long tough slow climb. We have probably seen our ceiling, which will be sporadic at best, and our floor is about to be exposed this year. It seems to me that our history over the last 15 years shows that our few good seasons required heavy experience combined with a few NFL level players. That means winning seasons every one of four or maybe two of five years.

I don't see what will cause a paradigm shift - wish I did. Someone please show me where I am wrong!

Myself, I am lowering expectations until we can at least string 2 winning seasons together. Let's hope that starts next year.
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This isn't going to be popular or make you feel better, but I tend to agree. Unless there is a some sort of paradigm shift in college football, we are simply in a really, really tough spot. I don't think it's necessarily a matter of speed or talent solely but I'd phrase it this way -- unless you get a coach who is really innovative offensively, super creative in terms of recruiting and running an airtight S&C program, I think we're in trouble.

Obviously the answer is, well then we need to find that coach. Ok, but that's much easier said than done.

As far as Dino, I'd like to see him with a solid QB before I make a final judgment. I'm totally fine with people saying it's his fault we don't have a qb (because it's true), I just don't feel super excited about making yet another coaching change just yet. Just feel like we've seen that movie before. Not saying I know the answer by any means, but that's the way I'm leaning.
 
Chip said:
We need to tap into that. I know our league goes south and east for the most part, but Ohio isn't Idaho. Most of it is easy driving distance to Syracuse as well as an annual away game at Pitt/Louisville.

Have to assume Fickell won't be there long, need to take advantage. I know Cincy, like Temple, has been pretty good about replacing coaches, but still... Get an Ohio relationship guy on staff.
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I've been saying that for years. This staff has ignored Ohio, which has good talent and only 1 Power 5 school in the state and that 1 school recruits nationally. We've gotten good players from there in the past.
Bottom line, I believe we've had 2 issues holding us back. QB recruiting and OL recruiting/development. If we can fix those, we can be very good. We have some talent at the other positions.
 
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Orangello said:
I don't think he's the guy for a lot of reasons but most importantly, he is not recruiting at the level needed for long term sustained success in the ACC, has been hit or miss with his staff and is a poor game day manager IMHO. I would give him one more year but need to see serious improvement in all of these phases or next man up.
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Unless your selling flip phones and other areas are selling I PHONE 12. Good luck with that
 
Orangefizz said:
I know I’m in the minority here but why is everyone so down on a triple option style offense? It has proven to be effective for teams who are not able to compete at the same talent level as their opponents. In my opinion Syracuse will always be behind the eight ball when it comes to acquiring talent, especially versus our southern ACC peers. Finishing in the bottom 3 in ACC recruiting every year will never give us a legitimate chance to be consistently good, let alone occasionally great.
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tenor.gif


Your commitment to trolling the board this way is clownish.
 
money3189 said:
A lot of truth in this post. People just refuse to believe it. They are expecting a staff of miracle recruiters to sell a losing product to 4/5 stars. After 20 years of this, we have to realize that things are different from the 90's. We don't a have the freeze option offense and we are not getting one of the top option QB's in the nation. We can be a 7-10 win team but bringing in new coaches every 4-5 years its hurting us more. With that said, 6 years should be enough to know. They have to make a move if we lose again next year.
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6 years is fine for sure although I think Dino may get 7 regardless. I think we will see at least 5-6 wins next year
 
The best thing about all of this is that the teams we need to beat, while they are beating us know, are still not very far ahead.. Pitt/BC are just avg teams in their best yrs. Wake/Duke/NC st nothing special. UL has been an athletic mess for years. Virg took a big step back this yr too. FSU is a dumpster fire.

Clemson while dabo and the D coach are there

UNC/Miami when they have coaches who dont screw them up

VT in a good spot for kids

no one else has shown much of anything.. some good years but not really great teams.

The leap from bottom to top 5 is not very far.
 
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