What worries me the most...

[orangecuse]

Im a shafer guy. I had a great relationship with him and wish him the very best. With that said he wasnt a HC. I thought we were talking about recruiting momentum after a couple years of winning seasons. Marrone never got a chance to reel in high ranked classes because he left when he was starting to get hot.

So true. Not to mention (for SU) the monumental investment the administration commenced after HCDM had left. IMO, with that type of commitment, there's no doubt in my mind we actually would be "consistently good and occasional great." Us diehards here may not believe this regime resembles/looks anything like the GRob era, but I would bet some serious dough that that is not the case of the general population for the average/causal fan in Syracuse & vicinity thinks. To many of them, this is very much like the second coming of that cluster.

 

[money3189]

Hot? Everyone graduated. He left the cupboard bare and Shafer had to scramble to put together a class. GRobb had better stars than DM.

My man, when did this become of Shafer vs Dino thing? Your responses are all referring to that. I wasnt talking about that. I have said nothing about Dino lol. Did you read what I wrote and how you originally replied to my post? BTW when I said hot. That meant he was coming off a bowl win and the program was progressing. How did you think he got the Bills job?

 

[OrangeDW]

Hot? Everyone graduated. He left the cupboard bare and Shafer had to scramble to put together a class. GRobb had better stars than DM.

There was enough in the cupboard when Marrone left for even Shafer to have a winning season.

 

[money3189]

The class that fell apart the year Marrone left was by far going to be his best. Made sense. I could go back and look but wasn't Gus Edwards one?

Marrone was by far the best at recruiting kids for his system or vision of the program and yeah he used the 7-8 really good kids that GROB recruited very well as well. GROB would recruit 5-6 good players and 15 D2 kids

That said, you change coaches you will always have kids that don't sign and I get it

Good points

 

[Crusty]

What? You taking a different path. That's a development debate, not recruiting. Two different skill sets. Sales pitch , contacts and relationships influences your ability to recruit high ranked kids. Part of being a saleman is pitching selling a winning product. I thought that's what we were talking about? 2013 class was ranked 74th

The class before, Marrone's last was 60th and the 2014 class, Shafer's second was 52nd. 2015 Shafer's last was 57th. Marrone went 92 60 58 60.

If you take all recruiting classes from 2009 to 2020, and average the player scores for each HC they are almost identical. Savor that fact for a moment.

 

[CousCuse]

This is what I think DB should do. Totally commit to the new transfer rule and aggressively go after no.2's and 3's at the factory schools with 40-50% of the available scholarships. The remaining scholarships go to guys that want to be at Syracuse for 5 years and have the understanding that they may or may not see PT depending on how they develop, those would be the continuity of program guys. This would allow the program to leapfrog without having hard feelings because of perceived slights.

This is basically a triple-A sports model except the top players wouldn't be called up by a parent team. I think Dino is the right kind of guy to run a system like this as each year would be almost a new team and he could use his ability to inspire guys who have a good chance to make the league. If Syracuse was the first team to do this they would be a trendsetter and be ahead of what will probably be the wave of the future. It is the reality of what college sports at the top level has become, embrace it or be stuck in the past and left behind.

 

[Orangefizz]

Uh, no

Thanks for the thoughtful answer. It was meant as a serious question to illicit a discussion. Btw what offense will work better? Style points mean nothing in college football- I want points on the scoreboard and more wins than losses. Not sure why any mention of an option/running offense gets people so worked up. We SUCK using our current offense, unless we have a superstar QB like Eric Dungey.

 

[Crusty]

There was enough in the cupboard when Marrone left for even Shafer to have a winning season.

.Shafer did a good job with that team. And when one player went down the next year everything crumbled. No depth at all.

 

[money3189]

The class before, Marrone's last was 60th and the 2014 class, Shafer's second was 52nd. 2015 Shafer's last was 57th. Marrone went 92 60 58 60.

If you take all recruiting classes from 2009 to 2020, and average the player scores for each HC they are almost identical. Savor that fact for a moment.

What is your point? I was talking about recruiting momentum after winning seasons and how it can improve recruiting and land some higher prospects. Marrone could have had great classes after the success he had. We didnt get a chance to see that because of the coaching transition. Do you really not understand that? You keep looking for other things to dispute.

 

[Orangefizz]

The triple option idea is consistently terrible and occasionally bad.

Except for the fact that our best teams since 1985 used this offense. Look at the Army turnaround in the past 5 years. They would kick our undisciplined teams ass if we matched up with them. I could see Army putting up 40+ points and 300+ rushing yards on us

 

[orangecuse]

.Shafer did a good job with that team. And when one player went down the next year everything crumbled. No depth at all.

Perhaps, depth was a contributing factor. However, as anyone on this board knows, or anyone that pays any attention to football beyond the color of the unis, etc., you simply can't win at a high level (certainly not with consistency) without having a franchise type QB. By far, the QB position is the most critical in all of sport. If your starting QB goes down, and you don't have one ready to come in and least be somewhat productive, well, you don't really have much of a chance. And, you get that "next" year you mention.

 

[Chip]

Except for the fact that our best teams since 1985 used this offense. Look at the Army turnaround in the past 5 years, who would kick our undisciplined teams ass if we matched up with them

A. We didn't use the triple option offense.

B. We play Army soon so you can look forward to gloating in 2023 and 2024.

 

[Crusty]

What is your point? I was talking about recruiting momentum after winning seasons and how it can improve recruiting and land some higher prospects. Marrone could have had great classes after the success he had. We didnt get a chance to see that because of the coaching transition. Do you really not understand that? You keep looking for other things to dispute.

That is pure supposition. Success - one season of 8-5?? There is nothing in Marrone's recruiting record to indicate that he was anything but an average recruiter at best. He won with GRobs recruits - Ryan Nassib, Marcus Sayles, Chandler Jones, Nick Provo, Rob Long and others.

I have always said Marrone can coach lineman and was a capable CEO, but recruiter, I don't think so.

 

[Crusty]

Perhaps, depth was a contributing factor. However, as anyone on this board knows, or anyone that pays any attention to football beyond the color of the unis, etc., you simply can't win at a high level (certainly not with consistency) without having a franchise type QB. By far, the QB position is the most critical in all of sport. If your starting QB goes down, and you don't have one ready to come in and least be somewhat productive, well, you don't really have much of a chance. And, you get that "next" year you mention.

I think Terrell was a quality QB who we could have won with. Great game vs Gophers in the Texas Bowl. Really a shame.

 

[money3189]

That is pure supposition. Success - one season of 8-5?? There is nothing in Marrone's recruiting record to indicate that he was anything but an average recruiter at best. He won with GRobs recruits - Ryan Nassib, Marcus Sayles, Chandler Jones, Nick Provo, Rob Long and others.

I have always said Marrone can coach lineman and was a capable CEO, but recruiter, I don't think so.

Lol , again. You responded to a post of me mentioning how winning helps recruiting. If you hate Marrone and Dino that much then you should write them letters. I actually have Doug’s number still. You can give him a call if you want.

 

[All4SU]

This is what I think DB should do. Totally commit to the new transfer rule and aggressively go after no.2's and 3's at the factory schools with 40-50% of the available scholarships. The remaining scholarships go to guys that want to be at Syracuse for 5 years and have the understanding that they may or may not see PT depending on how they develop, those would be the continuity of program guys. This would allow the program to leapfrog without having hard feelings because of perceived slights.

You realize, of course, that coaches cannot just “go after” those kids. Those players need to enter the transfer portal before you can contact them.

 

[CousCuse]

You realize, of course, that coaches cannot just “go after” those kids. Those players need to enter the transfer portal before you can contact them.

I do realize you can't tamper with other teams players, although Seton Hall did and it was fine and dandy. I'm saying you put it out there that is how Syracuse is going to manage their roster, I think that would be sufficient.

 

[CousCuse]

Lol , again. You responded to a post of me mentioning how winning helps recruiting. If you hate Marrone and Dino that much then you should write them letters. I actually have Doug’s number still. You can give him a call if you want.

Will you tell Doug I'm a huge fan of his and baloney sandwiches.

 

[Crusty]

Lol , again. You responded to a post of me mentioning how winning helps recruiting. If you hate Marrone and Dino that much then you should write them letters. I actually have Doug’s number still. You can give him a call if you want.

You were saying Marrone would get great classes based on one winning season, which is ridiculous. I don't hate Dino. Just the opposite but the facts are the facts and the results are in the books. I don't see what is going to change. Wish I did.
You can keep Marrone's number.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

It was meant as a serious question to illicit a discussion.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

You were saying Marrone would get great classes based on one winning season, which is ridiculous. I don't hate Dino. Just the opposite but the facts are the facts and the results are in the books. I don't see what is going to change. Wish I did.
You can keep Marrone's number.

Two winning seasons and one season that fell apart due to ridiculous injuries. That season did have a woodshed beating on a Friday night versus a ranked WVU team. There is no disputing that Marrone had some momentum after the 2012 season, it was clearly the best team we had in 12-13 years, and was rolling at the end of the year. The class was going to be his best by far and yeah Doug wasn't killing it on the recruiting trail but demonstrated success developing kids and putting talent out there. Shafer was a solid DC as well, as was his OC. After 4 years, he had a good staff put together, Henderson was an NFL retread that was a great D Back coach that the kids really liked.

Sure he won with some GROB recruits and what was he suppose to do run them out to? he cleaned house when he got here. However, he also developed the GROB kids what they turned into as well. I think he got the most out of Macky? No?

Marrone demonstrated what it takes to win here, average recruiting classes and developing kids. He recruited some athletes and some tough guys. He wasn't perfect but he did a nice job. He turned two running backs into really really good linebackers as well.

Again, good luck waiting for top 25 recruiting classes at Syracuse, it will not happen. We don't have the product to sell and never really have

 

[Chip]

Two winning seasons and one season that fell apart due to ridiculous injuries. That season did have a woodshed beating on a Friday night versus a ranked WVU team. There is no disputing that Marrone had some momentum after the 2012 season, it was clearly the best team we had in 12-13 years, and was rolling at the end of the year. The class was going to be his best by far and yeah Doug wasn't killing it on the recruiting trail but demonstrated success developing kids and putting talent out there. Shafer was a solid DC as well, as was his OC. After 4 years, he had a good staff put together, Henderson was an NFL retread that was a great D Back coach that the kids really liked.

Sure he won with some GROB recruits and guess what what was he suppose to do run them out to? he cleaned house when he got here. However, he also developed the GROB kids what they turned into as well. I think he got the most out of Macky? No?

Marrone demonstrated what it takes to win here, average recruiting classes and developing kids. He recruited some athletes and some tough guys. He wasn't perfect but he did a nice job. He turned two running backs into really really good linebackers as well.

Again, good luck waiting for top 25 recruiting classes at Syracuse, it will not happen. We don't have the product to sell and never really have

That's the biggest thing with Marrone, was developing players. Would he have recruited Nassib, Pugh, Lemon originally? Who knows. But look what he turned them into.

It's a critical skill if you're going to win anywhere, but probably moreso here than most places.

 

[money3189]

You were saying Marrone would get great classes based on one winning season, which is ridiculous. I don't hate Dino. Just the opposite but the facts are the facts and the results are in the books. I don't see what is going to change. Wish I did.
You can keep Marrone's number.

Yo man, stop putting words in my mouth. I said we never got the chance to see the recruiting momentum after two winning seasons in a row because of the coaching change. Didnt say he was gonna kill it or anything like that. But why do you think any coach couldnt land a few higher ends prospects after on field success? Its ridiculous that you dis like the man so much. Anything said that is mildly positive about him, you are ready to dispute it. Hilarious

 

[FRANKIEFAN]

Dino has only recruited one WR that could play for another ACC school and that guy is so skinny he drops anything if the DB is close and acts like a brat on every play.


The excellent DC hire this offseason was offset by a worse OC than George McDonald.


OL/DL/WR transfers seem like the only way to become good again.

 

[TheCusian]

Dino has only recruited one WR that could play for another ACC school and that guy is so skinny he drops anything if the DB is close and acts like a brat on every play.


The excellent DC hire this offseason was offset by a worse OC than George McDonald.


OL/DL/WR transfers seem like the only way to become good again.

1. Queeley is going to be good. Amba was fantastic. We have a bunch of big guys who are rated high in the pipeline. Chill on the WR recruiting. Harris is good - needs to mature

2. Lol. How can you make any judgement on the OC *this* season. McF*#^it was awful.

3. I’m all for hitting the transfer market.