Where does all of the ACC TV money go?

[rrlbees]

Spending is about to go up big time with the new Autonomy ruling, every Football and Basketball player and possibly scholarship athlete will begin getting stipends and guaranteed scholarships for 4 years. I wonder how the academic side is going to react to that when kids get hurt and can't play but are still guaranteed schooling for free. Because supposedly the scholarships count toward the athletic budget at private schools for cost of attendance. Going to get interesting...

As of last year, athletic scholarships were charged to the students home school.

 

[orange79]

Laws of capitalism. That's why silly.

All laws of capitalism do not necessarily apply here. This is a University. Not a public corporation.

 

[Full_Rebar]

Spending is about to go up big time with the new Autonomy ruling, every Football and Basketball player and possibly scholarship athlete will begin getting stipends and guaranteed scholarships for 4 years. I wonder how the academic side is going to react to that when kids get hurt and can't play but are still guaranteed schooling for free.

Because supposedly the scholarships count toward the athletic budget at private schools for cost of attendance.

Going to get interesting...

Two things- the cost of attendance allowance is adding less than $5k per full scholarship. That's the proposal and it's not a "stipend". It adds expense for sure, but not that much in the total budget. http://www.syr.edu/financialaid/costofattendance/index.html

Second, scholarships are typically honored when athletes are injured. This is because those scholarships no longer count towards the NCAA limits, but SU and many others continue to fund students.

Now I do question how the guaranteed scholarships will work in the Olympic sports where students often receive a percentage of a full ride. Does this guarantee mean that percentage is locked in for four years? This would impact more programs because I know coaches often slide the money around from year to year to stay under the NCAA limits.

 

[CuseOnly]

Two things- the cost of attendance allowance is adding less than $5k per full scholarship. That's the proposal and it's not a "stipend". It adds expense for sure, but not that much in the total budget. http://www.syr.edu/financialaid/costofattendance/index.html

Second, scholarships are typically honored when athletes are injured. This is because those scholarships no longer count towards the NCAA limits, but SU and many others continue to fund students.

Now I do question how the guaranteed scholarships will work in the Olympic sports where students often receive a percentage of a full ride. Does this guarantee mean that percentage is locked in for four years? This would impact more programs because I know coaches often slide the money around from year to year to stay under the NCAA limits.

Scholarships are currently on a year to year basis, if a kid get a career ending concussion in his freshman season, he is allowed to stay on scholarship for 4 years? Not sure this is true.

Secondly, I wasn't speaking to the scholarship counting towards the scholarship limits of the team. I was speaking to the expense to the school and how it would be received by the academic side of the house.

So if you guarantee 4 year scholarships and 3 kids each year for 4 years have a career ending injury, you are carrying those 12 scholarships with no participation. Lot of wasted loot there especially for a Private schools.

Keep in mind they are going to increase the length and coverage of health insurance for athletes as well. Another big expense there especially for a sport like football and the potential for injuries lasting a lifetime.

 

[Rocco]

All laws of capitalism do not necessarily apply here. This is a University. Not a public corporation.

Our country isn't a corporation either. The rich get richer, and the poor get poorer.

Tongue in cheek, too.

 

[GoSU96]

I would be very interested to see how the ACC would feel if they found out these funds designated for athletics were going somewhere else while the Syracuse football program is floundering, expecially since the main revenue driver for the ACC contract is football. My guess is that they would not be too happy.

I think this also goes to show that we could easily afford a big time football coach. We could very easily offer 3 times the salary of our current head coach and staff and still have $8-10 million in excess revenue. A lot more money should, and needs, to be spend on the football program. Period.

It's not that simple.

We don't know what that was used for, it could be to payback prior transfers from the school to cover overruns. It could go to towards athletics related capital spending that isn't reported here. It be going to reimburse the school for the BE exit fee.

I think this data is good to see how they are doing from a big picture perspective, how they are doing relative to the rest of D-1. I wouldn't use it to make specific judgments about spending choices.

 

[Full_Rebar]

Scholarships are currently on a year to year basis, if a kid get a career ending concussion in his freshman season, he is allowed to stay on scholarship for 4 years? Not sure this is true.

Secondly, I wasn't speaking to the scholarship counting towards the scholarship limits of the team. I was speaking to the expense to the school and how it would be received by the academic side of the house.

So if you guarantee 4 year scholarships and 3 kids each year for 4 years have a career ending injury, you are carrying those 12 scholarships with no participation. Lot of wasted loot there especially for a Private schools.

Keep in mind they are going to increase the length and coverage of health insurance for athletes as well. Another big expense there especially for a sport like football and the potential for injuries lasting a lifetime.

I have yet to hear a case where an athlete who was medically disqualified lost their scholarship at SU. I am aware that a couple transferred to other schools, but if they chose to remain at SU, the scholarship was honored. This is the right thing to do, and no University wants the negative PR that would come with yanking a scholarship because of an injury. Not to mention the way APR is calculated, it is important for schools to retain and graduate their athletes or they risk the post-season ban.

I agree that the extended health care costs are likely to be a big expense, but the cost of attendance allowance and guaranteed scholarships aren't a big deal- they just sound that way to the public.

 

[Rocco]

Keep in mind they are going to increase the length and coverage of health insurance for athletes as well. Another big expense there especially for a sport like football and the potential for injuries lasting a lifetime.

Is this true? If so, wow. That is a huge expense.

 

[cuseincincy]

The worst part of this ACC deal is TV. I used to get EVERY cuse game...not anymore

Yup. I've been lucky (I guess) that I've been able to watch a few on ESPN3 but the quality of picture/sound and lack of modern TV functionality make it frustrating. I think some of it is not enough questions have been asked about access to broadcasts and too much to the names. Its great to hear the games will be broadcast on regional sports networks that can access X# of viewers. But then the small print in some contract somewhere makes the games "blacked out" on regional and national providers like DirecTv, Dish, Warner etc. I mean seriously, why is the Sports South Network blacking me out from watching Syracuse vs Boston College sitting in Cincinnati, OH. What possible reason do they have to black me out? To have me watch on a more local channel? sounds great but it was blacked out on Sports Time Ohio also! Had to watch it on ESPN3 despite the game being listed on over 10 channels that I receive (some I pay extra for as part of my "sports pack" that gets me all the Foxc Sports and other regional sports networks. I mean seriously, I'm subscribing to the freakin channel and I get blacked out?
Thanks for getting me all worked up again!

 

[Full_Rebar]

Completely honest question as I really have no idea.

Okkkkk shoot...

Looks like you aren't the only person asking...from here:http://universitysenate.syr.edu/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/cme_budget_rpt_2014-12-03.pdf

2.3 Athletics Subcommittee
The SBC met with Terry Donovan, the Deputy Athletic Director and CFO, to discuss the current
budget status of the Athletic Department. Despite reports to the contrary, SBC was informed the
Athletic Department has not received significant additional revenues from inclusion in the ACC
beyond what was budgeted. As a consequence, there does not appear to be additional funds to
pay back the Big East exit fee earlier in this year’s budget. Further, the Athletic Department
budget is projected to be in deficit for this fiscal year which further reduces the overall fund
balance for this responsibility center. In further review and discussion with the Athletics
Department and Carrier Dome Operations, the SBC will direct attention to the following:
7. Encourage consideration of all costs associated with Athletics and the Carrier Dome
Operations, including costs of athletics scholarships.
8. Consider budget allocations over coming years to assure continued compliance with
requirements of Title IX.
9. A subcommittee of the SU Board of Trustees is reviewing the Athletic Department budget
and Chancellor Syverud will receive revised projections of the Athletic budget by the end
of the year. The SBC will endeavor to support the intent of Chancellor Syverud to make
the Athletics budget revenue and expense neutral as a long term objective.
In addition, the SBC will follow up on the 2015 budget updates, performance of nonacademic
responsibility centers and cost pools as well as the performance of endowments and reserves to
report to the SU Senate with appropriate recommendations in Spring 2015.

 

[rrlbees]

Looks like you aren't the only person asking...from here:http://universitysenate.syr.edu/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/cme_budget_rpt_2014-12-03.pdf

They are doing a real scrub of budgets on the hill and the AD is one of their focuses. If I read it right, #7 is what I have said several times. I think I saw one time that athletic scholarships cost the university north of $10m.

 

[javadoc]

They are doing a real scrub of budgets on the hill and the AD is one of their focuses. If I read it right, #7 is what I have said several times. I think I saw one time that athletic scholarships cost the university north of $10m.

What is the cost of a scholarship? $50K? $10M/$50K = 200. Do we have that many scholarship athletes? Men's football + hoops gives you almost 100. Where do the rest go? And how the heck do we balance out Title IX concerns? Do we have 100 female athletes on scholarship?

This bit is worth excerpting:

"The SBC met with Terry Donovan, the Deputy Athletic Director and CFO, to discuss the current budget status of the Athletic Department. Despite reports to the contrary, SBC was informed the Athletic Department has not received significant additional revenues from inclusion in the ACC beyond what was budgeted. As a consequence, there does not appear to be additional funds to pay back the Big East exit fee earlier in this year’s budget. Further, the Athletic Department budget is projected to be in deficit for this fiscal year which further reduces the overall fund balance for this responsibility center."

Fire away, folks. After the threads in the last two weeks about how we should be using our windfall to pay the football coaches more, well, there you go. We're actually in the red. Question is, why?

And how do we reconcile that with the trend in the recent Title IX reporting?

 

[rrlbees]

What is the cost of a scholarship? $50K? $10M/$50K = 200. Do we have that many scholarship athletes? Men's football + hoops gives you almost 100. Where do the rest go? And how the heck do we balance out Title IX concerns? Do we have 100 female athletes on scholarship? This bit is worth excerpting: "The SBC met with Terry Donovan, the Deputy Athletic Director and CFO, to discuss the current budget status of the Athletic Department. Despite reports to the contrary, SBC was informed the Athletic Department has not received significant additional revenues from inclusion in the ACC beyond what was budgeted. As a consequence, there does not appear to be additional funds to pay back the Big East exit fee earlier in this year’s budget. Further, the Athletic Department budget is projected to be in deficit for this fiscal year which further reduces the overall fund balance for this responsibility center." Fire away, folks. After the threads in the last two weeks about how we should be using our windfall to pay the football coaches more, well, there you go. We're actually in the red. Question is, why? And how do we reconcile that with the trend in the recent Title IX reporting?

Don't know the math behind it. But yes, there has to be about the same female scholies as males.

As to what you highlighted, it's not news to some. We've been in the red other years too. That's why I've never understood those dept. of Ed numbers that get posted.

 

[GoSU96]

Don't know the math behind it. But yes, there has to be about the same female scholies as males.

As to what you highlighted, it's not news to some. We've been in the red other years too. That's why I've never understood those dept. of Ed numbers that get posted.

They don't tie out, but one's a report to the Federal Government, the other isn't.

Obviously the accounting is different.

And we don't know what the effect of the Carrier Dome is to all of this. It looks like the school treats the AD and Dome as one unified cost center.

 

[GoSU96]

They are doing a real scrub of budgets on the hill and the AD is one of their focuses. If I read it right, #7 is what I have said several times. I think I saw one time that athletic scholarships cost the university north of $10m.

$15.6M in athletic related student aid in 2013 according to the report filed last year. I'd expect something that straight forward to be accurate.

 

[rrlbees]

$15.6M in athletic related student aid in 2013 according to the report filed last year. I'd expect something that straight forward to be accurate.

Sounds about right. Was a couple years ago and only said north of $10. So $15.6m makes sense. If what I have said before about who pays for scholies and if I understand #7 right, another $15m cost to the AD is gonna be a good chunk of that additional ACC money.

 

[rrlbees]

They don't tie out, but one's a report to the Federal Government, the other isn't. Obviously the accounting is different. And we don't know what the effect of the Carrier Dome is to all of this. It looks like the school treats the AD and Dome as one unified cost center.

Accounting had to be totally different. That's why I've said I don't understand it. Not gonna lie to the DOE but it doesn't reflect what is really happening.

 

[CuseOnly]

Further proof that SU has a ridiculously good accounting staff that they can show a loss with revenues north of $80 million for the Athletic Department...amazing.

I want to hire them to do my taxes.

 

[Janner]

Im fine with there being debt and paying that back. The program could have been running in the red over the last few years and now they are working on getting into the black again, that would not be a problem with me. Eventually they should be running a surplus with the additional $15-20 million more a year they are getting from the ACC. If they are not then I'd have to ask how the program existed over the past decade when they were making 15-20 million less? How much could the Department have been in the red and how was that covered for so long?

 

[Fly Rodder]

Further proof that SU has a ridiculously good accounting staff that they can show a loss with revenues north of $80 million for the Athletic Department...amazing.

I want to hire them to do my taxes.

Hollywood has been doing it for years.

Higher Ed is such a scam it's not even funny anymore. Take a read of the obituaries for some of the law schools that have closed their doors recently - and they don't even have the added cesspool that is NCAA Athletics.

 

[rrlbees]

Im fine with there being debt and paying that back. The program could have been running in the red over the last few years and now they are working on getting into the black again, that would not be a problem with me. Eventually they should be running a surplus with the additional $15-20 million more a year they are getting from the ACC. If they are not then I'd have to ask how the program existed over the past decade when they were making 15-20 million less? How much could the Department have been in the red and how was that covered for so long?

IF athletic scholies were previously accounted for by the SU colleges themselves and may now have to be accounted for by the AD, that would explain a lot. That's the lions share of the extra money each year.

 

[Millhouse]

They are doing a real scrub of budgets on the hill and the AD is one of their focuses. If I read it right, #7 is what I have said several times. I think I saw one time that athletic scholarships cost the university north of $10m.

only if the school is at capacity, which they won't be as soon when standards improve

 

[Janner]

IF athletic scholies were previously accounted for by the SU colleges themselves and may now have to be accounted for by the AD, that would explain a lot. That's the lions share of the extra money each year.

Yes I agree 100%, thats a ton of extra money to come up with. And if that were the case that would also open up some significant questions/issues. How did this program exist for years if the lions share of the costs were funded by the University as a whole? Is this common practice across the college Athletics landscape for private institutions?

Also, what did we tell the ACC we would do with regards to athletics when we expressed interest in joining the conference? I'd be interested to know if we promised to spend a certain amount of this new funding on Athletics (more specifically, the revenue driver which is football). And how do you justify (to the ACC) that we are just going to use every penny we are going to receive from the conference to pay a budget line that was being paid by the school previously, ie we are taking your money and using it to plug holes and not directly reinvesting it into our athletics (football). Who knows, maybe the ACC said your value to the conference is $X so do what ever you want with the money. But, if there was a discussion about using these funds to specifically improve the athletics programs there could be an issue.

I just find this topic very facinating in general and im glad it can be something that can be discussed with like minded individuals.

 

[Full_Rebar]

IF athletic scholies were previously accounted for by the SU colleges themselves and may now have to be accounted for by the AD, that would explain a lot. That's the lions share of the extra money each year.

If that's the case, why not just say that? FWIW, I don't think that process has officially changed, but I haven't heard that it won't moving forward.

The thing about the scholarships is the "tax". It said in the report that really a scholarship should be a zero value transaction, but it's the tax that the schools were paying. No idea what that dollar amount is per student, but it isn't the 55k or whatever SU is these days.