Where does firing coach p rank

TheCusian

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#29
It was a horrific decision.

The individuals who pushed for the dismissal were not football people and did not understand why the program was having difficulty.

The basic problem was financial - the University's failure to sufficiently invest in the program - outdated training facilities, outdated weight training facilities, outdated locker rooms - the Carrier Dome AstroTurf and on and on.

By the time Marrone got here we were still way behind.

Robinson and his staff revealed just how effective Pasqualoni and his staff were.
That’s all true. But you left out the part where they also were beginning to lose their effectiveness as coaches. It’s not all on aging facilities.

He stayed a long time and had a good run. Probably deserved a year or two more. But it was inevitable.
 

sufandu

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#31
P was on his way out. He either did not want to or was incapable of adapting. He should not have been fired when he was. He should have been brought back with the intent of giving the AD sufficient time to do a proper search the following year or the year after that.
 

SmilinBob

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#32
P was on his way out. He either did not want to or was incapable of adapting. He should not have been fired when he was. He should have been brought back with the intent of giving the AD sufficient time to do a proper search the following year or the year after that.
True and let's add the debacle of a bowl game vs GT which probably excellerated the process unfortunately.
 

Finwad32

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#33
I get that Gross was at the helm when we went to the ACC, But, that would be like applauding a train conductor when the train gets to its destination.

The train was headed there regardless, he just happen to be there when it was time.

Gross was terrible at his job. Blatant fraud, inexcusable spending and terrible hires littered his tenure. Many things happened behind the scenes that were never even brought to light. You’ll struggle to find somebody plugged into Syracuse Athletics that speaks well of him post departure.
 

elimunelson

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#34
That’s all true. But you left out the part where they also were beginning to lose their effectiveness as coaches. It’s not all on aging facilities.

He stayed a long time and had a good run. Probably deserved a year or two more. But it was inevitable.
There was aspects of staleness but a bad coach wouldn't have gone into Chestnut Hill, against a team playing for their first (and still elusive) BCS appearance, and spanked them. To me, that showed me that the old goat could coach. He was far from perfect but when you dismiss a coach you NEED to have a plan of bringing in a guy who can build on the program and tighten up the issues from before. Hiring GERG was a Pete Carroll recommendation which made no sense for a Northeastern program in 2005. If there was any vision we could have hired Sean McDowell/Chip Kelley from UNH or Mark Whipple from Umass. Those would have been Syracuse like hires.

Pasqualoni was Syracuse's version of Frank Beamer or Kirk Ferentz. We had a guy who didn't crave attention, wasn't looking to lever other opportunities, and wanted to retire here. He brought an exciting brand of football to the hill for many years. The university should have figured out a way to make it work with him and try and figure out why they were beginning to slip. School failed on every possible way w his exit. He was the president of the college football coaches too i recall as well. He was very well respected in the industry.

it angers me thinking about it. He was NOT perfect but was as good a coach you could have asked for at Syracuse in the 90s. It slipped at the end but u find ways to make it work.
 

elimunelson

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#35
I get that Gross was at the helm when we went to the ACC, But, that would be like applauding a train conductor when the train gets to its destination.

The train was headed there regardless, he just happen to be there when it was time.

Gross was terrible at his job. Blatant fraud, inexcusable spending and terrible hires littered his tenure. Many things happened behind the scenes that were never even brought to light. You’ll struggle to find somebody plugged into Syracuse Athletics that speaks well of him post departure.
Guy was a terrible hire. The ACC decision was based on our brand, not on Gross. We received interest from a completely indifferent Crouthamel in 2003. I got his indifference because he was an architect of the Big East and knew the decision would change the entire sport forever with us detonating the Big East. He understand it was necessary and allowed the hostile takeover.

Thank Jim Boeheim, Jake Crouthamel, Mac/P for the results which made us attractive to the ACC. Not the guy who stood on the shoulder of giants.
 

NKR1978

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#36
I get that Gross was at the helm when we went to the ACC, But, that would be like applauding a train conductor when the train gets to its destination.

The train was headed there regardless, he just happen to be there when it was time.

Gross was terrible at his job. Blatant fraud, inexcusable spending and terrible hires littered his tenure. Many things happened behind the scenes that were never even brought to light. You’ll struggle to find somebody plugged into Syracuse Athletics that speaks well of him post departure.
The increase in success and profile of our secondary sports made us more attractive to the ACC. That's in spite of the fact that our football team was and remains (though hopefully not for long) less than mediocre.

The success of our athletics department l, culminating in the 15-16 academic year, is all on Gross and Cantor. And no amount of personal animus toward them or rewriting history will change that.
 

Finwad32

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#37
The increase in success and profile of our secondary sports made us more attractive to the ACC. That's in spite of the fact that our football team was and remains (though hopefully not for long) less than mediocre.

The success of our athletics department l, culminating in the 15-16 academic year, is all on Gross and Cantor. And no amount of personal animus toward them or rewriting history will change that.
Sure, I don’t like them, that’s it.
 

NKR1978

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#38
Sure, I don’t like them, that’s it.
They had a ton of faults and failures. But arguably the most important thing to happen to SU athletically in it's history was the invitation to the ACC. They made that happen.
 

elimunelson

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#39
The increase in success and profile of our secondary sports made us more attractive to the ACC. That's in spite of the fact that our football team was and remains (though hopefully not for long) less than mediocre.

The success of our athletics department l, culminating in the 15-16 academic year, is all on Gross and Cantor. And no amount of personal animus toward them or rewriting history will change that.
How did BC get in then? Zero buildup in their tennis programs and other secondary stuff. The ACC wanted their market (Boston), ACC wanted our market (which was more national).

The brand equity we had got us in. We HAD an invite in 2003 until the governor of Virginia interjected. After that point when there was another rejiggering of conferences we were gonna land in the Big 10 or ACC. I could have been the AD and that would have happened. Our national brand is a real thing.
 

Pearl309

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#40
How did BC get in then? Zero buildup in their tennis programs and other secondary stuff. The ACC wanted their market (Boston), ACC wanted our market (which was more national).

The brand equity we had got us in. We HAD an invite in 2003 until the governor of Virginia interjected. After that point when there was another rejiggering of conferences we were gonna land in the Big 10 or ACC. I could have been the AD and that would have happened. Our national brand is a real thing.
I truly disagree that if elimu nelson or you were ad would’ve got us in. It takes insane political savvy. Look at uconn left behind... they were a brand in b-ball and had a football program...
 

TheCusian

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#44
There was aspects of staleness but a bad coach wouldn't have gone into Chestnut Hill, against a team playing for their first (and still elusive) BCS appearance, and spanked them. To me, that showed me that the old goat could coach. He was far from perfect but when you dismiss a coach you NEED to have a plan of bringing in a guy who can build on the program and tighten up the issues from before. Hiring GERG was a Pete Carroll recommendation which made no sense for a Northeastern program in 2005. If there was any vision we could have hired Sean McDowell/Chip Kelley from UNH or Mark Whipple from Umass. Those would have been Syracuse like hires.

Pasqualoni was Syracuse's version of Frank Beamer or Kirk Ferentz. We had a guy who didn't crave attention, wasn't looking to lever other opportunities, and wanted to retire here. He brought an exciting brand of football to the hill for many years. The university should have figured out a way to make it work with him and try and figure out why they were beginning to slip. School failed on every possible way w his exit. He was the president of the college football coaches too i recall as well. He was very well respected in the industry.

it angers me thinking about it. He was NOT perfect but was as good a coach you could have asked for at Syracuse in the 90s. It slipped at the end but u find ways to make it work.
Nothing in this post disproves mine. I agreed that he had a bit left and was fired prematurely and without a plan or leadership that could mitigate freefall.

Pointing to one game vs BC doesn’t do it for me. Lots more proof that his time as HC wouldn’t have worked for more that 2 years.
 

PhatOrange

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#45
The timing was absolutely terrible and there was no plan on what to do next after the knee jerk decision.

For the good of the program he needed to coach the next year so the powers that be could've formulated an exit plan with a list of viable candidates. Firing him at that point in time was the worst move in program history.

107–59–1

Put me in the camp that Gross did not get us into the ACC, JakeC and JB did.
 

elimunelson

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#46
The timing was absolutely terrible and there was no plan on what to do next after the knee jerk decision.

For the good of the program he needed to coach the next year so the powers that be could've formulated an exit plan with a list of viable candidates. Firing him at that point in time was the worst move in program history.

107–59–1

Put me in the camp that Gross did not get us into the ACC, JakeC and JB did.
To me the firing of P was the first glimpse of Syracuse cow-towing to the way college athletics became. What have you done for me lately and grass is greener. It was our SEC moment where we let a few down years blow up what was essentially a 15 year run of quality. as i said earlier, look at Kirk Ferentz and the patience Iowa has had with him. Would you take his run as HC vs GERG/Marrone/Dino since 2005? Maybe i've lowered my expectations but i would.
 
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#47
I was being EXTREMELY facetious. Time for the ole sarcasm meter tuneup, no? ;)
No, not at all. I think that's a very discussable topic. Frank recruited some of our all-time greats and he battled to get Archbold replaced with the Dome. He had his merits. He just didn't enjoy playing the games behind the scenes. Therefore, he didn't prosper.
 
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PhatOrange

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#48
To me the firing of P was the first glimpse of Syracuse cow-towing to the way college athletics became. What have you done for me lately and grass is greener. It was our SEC moment where we let a few down years blow up what was essentially a 15 year run of quality. as i said earlier, look at Kirk Ferentz and the patience Iowa has had with him. Would you take his run as HC vs GERG/Marrone/Dino since 2005? Maybe i've lowered my expectations but i would.
P's time was coming to an end and I'm not sure he could have reversed course because the facilities were so bad. Would've liked to have seen Joe Fields with Rhodes and Ray Rice in the backfield though. And an NFL safety coming in; Courtney Greene. In fact there were a bunch of really good players coming back in 2005- Tanard Jackson, Anthony Smith, Kelvin Smith, Rhodes, Steve Gregory, Jameel McClain, Mackey, Lacasse and some others.

I ultimately believe P would've toiled in .500 range more or less just by coaching guys up and game planning. But Ray Rice was a generational player though so who knows. Not sure we would've sustained recruiting because of the facilities. It was time for new blood just not at the end of 2004.

Our 2 best hires - Marrone and Babers - imo were the result of having a plan and not going knee jerk.

Marrone to Shafer was the easy way out for Gross but I think it's ultimately because Gross didn't have a contingency plan. Professionals always have a backup plan and AD's should always keeps a short of viable and interested coaching candidates. I've read that even Nick Saban keeps a list of the best coaches across that country at every single level (HS, D2, D3, 1AA, College, Pros, Canadian etc)
 

sufandu

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#49
There was aspects of staleness but a bad coach wouldn't have gone into Chestnut Hill, against a team playing for their first (and still elusive) BCS appearance, and spanked them. To me, that showed me that the old goat could coach. He was far from perfect but when you dismiss a coach you NEED to have a plan of bringing in a guy who can build on the program and tighten up the issues from before. Hiring GERG was a Pete Carroll recommendation which made no sense for a Northeastern program in 2005. If there was any vision we could have hired Sean McDowell/Chip Kelley from UNH or Mark Whipple from Umass. Those would have been Syracuse like hires.

Pasqualoni was Syracuse's version of Frank Beamer or Kirk Ferentz. We had a guy who didn't crave attention, wasn't looking to lever other opportunities, and wanted to retire here. He brought an exciting brand of football to the hill for many years. The university should have figured out a way to make it work with him and try and figure out why they were beginning to slip. School failed on every possible way w his exit. He was the president of the college football coaches too i recall as well. He was very well respected in the industry.

it angers me thinking about it. He was NOT perfect but was as good a coach you could have asked for at Syracuse in the 90s. It slipped at the end but u find ways to make it work.
P and Beamer are not comparable. Beamer took over a bad team and turned it around. P was handed the keys to a program that was already turned around. Beamer and Coach Mac would be a better comparison, if Mac had decided to stay longer.
 

ForCuseSake

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#50
It was a horrific decision.

The individuals who pushed for the dismissal were not football people and did not understand why the program was having difficulty.

The basic problem was financial - the University's failure to sufficiently invest in the program - outdated training facilities, outdated weight training facilities, outdated locker rooms - the Carrier Dome AstroTurf and on and on.

By the time Marrone got here we were still way behind.

Robinson and his staff revealed just how effective Pasqualoni and his staff were.
Can you say what’s changed at the admin level that has started to get funds flowing back into the program?

Are the “non-football” individuals who pushed for Coach P’s firing still apart of the admin or have others (presumably at the board level) been able to overrule their agenda.

Perhaps I’m not wording this correctly but I’m curious to know if the school’s recent investment in the program (e.g. coachs’ salaries, IPF, etc) is because those individuals’ minds were changed or they’re no longer part of the administration. Thanks.
 
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