Where does firing coach p rank

[elimunelson]

as was shaw

I remember being at the Gator Bowl rally in Jax with Buzz and he started waving a Syracuse flag like a maniac and broke a light above us. He was a lunatic. I could never tell if he was a functional drunk or if he was just a hyper active guy. He certainly was one of a kind

All i know is when I went to Cuse, he was the chancellor, and our football/basketball were good, our school ranking was top 45. Not sure if that was Eggers and he rode the wave but Cantor destroyed the school ranking after he left.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

It was a horrific decision.

The individuals who pushed for the dismissal were not football people and did not understand why the program was having difficulty.

The basic problem was financial - the University's failure to sufficiently invest in the program - outdated training facilities, outdated weight training facilities, outdated locker rooms - the Carrier Dome AstroTurf and on and on.

By the time Marrone got here we were still way behind.

Robinson and his staff revealed just how effective Pasqualoni and his staff were.

All that is true, but it was time. His own players were unrecruiting kids when they were on campus. It became borderline intolerable for the players. Coaches were yelling at the players that they (coaches) were going to lose their jobs and have to up root their families because of the players
Numerous players said they would rather be 1-10 for Grob than have played for P again.
At half time of P's last game (31-0?, if memory serves, ZERO offensive adjustments were made. Zero. The coaching: just do what we practiced.) It was time.

 

[hungrychuck]

Oy. We needed this thread like Northern California needs a couple more weeks of high winds without rain.

 

[Delmar]

Still short of Igor, who said "We have waaay more talent than Miami", who beat us 59-0.

Then there's Rutgers Al who compared the Scarlet Knights to the '85 Bears after a 47-15 loss to Cincinnati.

Rutgers Al is the benchmark of delusional. He has been the subject of ridicule, but I love Rutgers Al. He is unabashedly the homer that we all are.

 

[JeffCuse]

P's time to go had come. He should have been let go earlier. The problem was never firing him, it was the ridiculous choice in replacing him.

#ducks

 

[JeffCuse]

Norm Chow was the hot name right? Complete disaster as well.

The start of the 2005 season was interesting as well. We played WVU (who went on to win the Sugar Bowl) in game 1, another tough one vs a ranked Virginia team and then the bottom fell out. Weirdly had a shot at 3-0 against as tough a start (and then no biggie, at FSU game 4). Not making excuses for a bad coach but that was a tough way to get out of the box for GERG.

We seemed to set ourselves up with the hardest gauntlet of starting games of any program ever.

Most of the big names were busts. How about that Skip Holtz?

 

[IthacaMatt]

Most of the big names were busts. How about that Skip Holtz?

And don't forget the offensive genius who went to Notre Dame, Charlie Weiss.

That appears to be one year when "The Peter Principle" was in 100% full blown EFFECT. Every coordinator of a national contender was just awful as a head coach. It's weird.

 

[OrangeinBoston]

Great thread. Let's now resurrect the thread about the basketball recruit who chose NC State over SU 20 years ago (can't remember his name) who is now at least a middle-aged man if not dead.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Great thread. Let's now resurrect the thread about the basketball recruit who chose NC State over SU 20 years ago (can't remember his name) who is now at least a middle-aged man if not dead.

Julius Hodge. It was the Julius Hodge recruitment that brought Francis to our board. And it got us Hakim Warrick as a consolation prize. So, personally, I don't have any problems with some of these old threads. It's our history as fans, as a program, and as a board.

 

[elimunelson]

P's time to go had come. He should have been let go earlier. The problem was never firing him, it was the ridiculous choice in replacing him.

#ducks

If he was let go a year earlier we may have had one less bowl game. The assumption he wasn’t coaching them up vs down is somewhat crazy. Argue the facilities and recruiting being down but he was a good coach who squeezed results out of the early 2000 teams. It’s evidence to where bad coaching led us post his departure

 

[JeffCuse]

If he was let go a year earlier we may have had one less bowl game. The assumption he wasn’t coaching them up vs down is somewhat crazy. Argue the facilities and recruiting being down but he was a good coach who squeezed results out of the early 2000 teams. It’s evidence to where bad coaching led us post his departure

We can agree to disagree here. I'll save my additional comments for the next time someone creates this thread in a few months...

 

[KevMonstah]

Me like this thread, and I'll comment with what I've left in each of the others about P's dismissal ...

The program had gotten stale, with not a whole lot of optimism it was going to get better. He'd
tried coaching the same way sans McNabb as he did with him, and, well, that's not going to be
a good thing. I'd also say that P was/is a good caretaker for a program, and you certainly would
not have NCAA infractions/issues with him, but he wasn't going to get you any more excitement. I'd felt he should've been gone at least one year earlier, and in his final one, yeah,
it was time to go. They had a team perfectly capable of going 6-6 every year, beating all the
D1-AA and low D1-A teams while losing to every top 40 team. Which is not what SU should
aspire to be.

That said, winning the BC game should've either bought him the following year, or still get rid
of him right then and there. At the time, I badly wanted Ty Willingham to be SU's coach. He
was available. Post GT-shellacking, he was not. The timing of the firing was awful, and it got
worse. So, solid guy, clean program, mediocre coach. Replaced by someone weaker in all
phases.

But you know what? Let's let this topic die.

Kev

 

[JeffCuse]

Me like this thread, and I'll comment with what I've left in each of the others about P's dismissal ...

The program had gotten stale, with not a whole lot of optimism it was going to get better. He'd
tried coaching the same way sans McNabb as he did with him, and, well, that's not going to be
a good thing. I'd also say that P was/is a good caretaker for a program, and you certainly would
not have NCAA infractions/issues with him, but he wasn't going to get you any more excitement. I'd felt he should've been gone at least one year earlier, and in his final one, yeah,
it was time to go. They had a team perfectly capable of going 6-6 every year, beating all the
D1-AA and low D1-A teams while losing to every top 40 team. Which is not what SU should
aspire to be.

That said, winning the BC game should've either bought him the following year, or still get rid
of him right then and there. At the time, I badly wanted Ty Willingham to be SU's coach. He
was available. Post GT-shellacking, he was not. The timing of the firing was awful, and it got
worse. So, solid guy, clean program, mediocre coach. Replaced by someone weaker in all
phases.

But you know what? Let's let this topic die.

Kev

I agree with a lot of what you say. Really, IMO, the two biggest mistakes were waiting too long and choosing the wrong guy. But agreed, its all been said before at this point.

 

[GoSU96]

I agree with a lot of what you say. Really, IMO, the two biggest mistakes were waiting too long and choosing the wrong guy. But agreed, its all been said before at this point.

Waiting too long, name one program that canned a coach two years after a 10 win season for program performance reasons?

Beyond inane.

The single biggest reason this program is in the position it is today is firing P without a BETTER successor lined up. Period.

You replace a solid, well respected, competent, with a proven ability to build teams that could compete at the highest level, with a multi-timed fired loser like Robinson in a resource starved environment, you deserve what get from an institutional level.

This program is still feeling those after effects.

 

[orange79]

Waiting too long, name one program that canned a coach two years after a 10 win season for program performance reasons?

Nebraska fired their coach after a 9-win and then 3 10-win seasons.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Waiting too long, name one program that canned a coach two years after a 10 win season for program performance reasons?

Beyond inane.

The single biggest reason this program is in the position it is today is firing P without a BETTER successor lined up. Period.

You replace a solid, well respected, competent, with a proven ability to build teams that could compete at the highest level, with a multi-timed fired loser like Robinson in a resource starved environment, you deserve what get from an institutional level.

This program is still feeling those after effects.

Every coach gets fired, just like everyone eventually dies.
On paper, he was a very solid candidate, and in person, he was personable and good looking, to boot.

In his one year as Texas DC, the year we hired him, he took them to the national championship game.
People say, "well, he got fired from Denver" - yes, after six seasons and 2 Super Bowls.
People say, "well, he got fired from the Jets" - yes, after five seasons. And who doesn't get fired from the Jets?
Before that, he coached at UCLA for eight seasons.
You don't last that long at high profile jobs if you are utterly inept at what you do.

The Robinson years were without question the blow that we have yet to recover from, and I am not a fan of Nancy Cantor or Darryl Gross, for that matter (although Gross did leave behind quite a few accomplishments for all the abuse he takes here), but if it was so freaking obvious that Robinson was a disaster hire before he even started, well, I just don't see it. It looks like a rational choice at the time to me.

 

[GoSU96]

Every coach gets fired, just like everyone eventually dies.
On paper, he was a very solid candidate, and in person, he was personable and good looking, to boot.

In his one year as Texas DC, the year we hired him, he took them to the national championship game.
People say, "well, he got fired from Denver" - yes, after six seasons and 2 Super Bowls.
People say, "well, he got fired from the Jets" - yes, after five seasons. And who doesn't get fired from the Jets?
Before that, he coached at UCLA for eight seasons.
You don't last that long at high profile jobs if you are utterly inept at what you do.

The Robinson years were without question the blow that we have yet to recover from, and I am not a fan of Nancy Cantor or Darryl Gross, for that matter (although Gross did leave behind quite a few accomplishments for all the abuse he takes here), but if it was so freaking obvious that Robinson was a disaster hire before he even started, well, I just don't see it. It looks like a rational choice at the time to me.

He was fired twice within three years in the NFL, Denver (2000) and then KC (2003). He was co-DC at Texas for one year.

And then he is made a first time HC at a D-1 school to replace a guy that had one losing season in 14 years?

It's unfathomable. There isn't another a guy with the job history like that that has EVER been made a first time head coach at this level. EVER.

 

[GoSU96]

Nebraska fired their coach after a 9-win and then 3 10-win seasons.

Like I said, fired for performance on the field. There was a lot more to it than disappointment with records BTW, how has the worked out for them since?

 

[orangenauburn]

Most of the big names were busts. How about that Skip Holtz?

I think if memory serves right after P, Bo Pelini was a name floating out there. Pretty sure there were a couple names that have since gone on to greater things that were floated.

 

[IthacaMatt]

He was fired twice within three years in the NFL, Denver (2000) and then KC (2003). He was co-DC at Texas for one year.

And then he is made a first time HC at a D-1 school to replace a guy that had one losing season in 14 years?

It's unfathomable. There isn't another a guy with the job history like that that has EVER been made a first time head coach at this level. EVER.

He left Texas voluntarily when we hired him, after playing for the National Championship.

He had 3 long stints as a coach at big time programs, two in the NFL. Coaches get fired. It's part of the job. I can name you half a dozen guys who won national championships who were fired.

As for your other point, coordinators are the typical target for coaching jobs with mid-market appeal, like SU. I can name dozens of them, too, including Pasqualoni.

 

[JeffCuse]

Waiting too long, name one program that canned a coach two years after a 10 win season for program performance reasons?

Ruffin McNeill?
Phil Fullmer? I guess this was technically a resignation but he was going to be fired if he didnt...

 

[GoSU96]

He left Texas voluntarily when we hired him, after playing for the National Championship.

He had 3 long stints as a coach at big time programs, two in the NFL. Coaches get fired. It's part of the job. I can name you half a dozen guys who won national championships who were fired.

As for your other point, coordinators are the typical target for coaching jobs with mid-market appeal, like SU. I can name dozens of them, too, including Pasqualoni.

Uh, his three jobs prior, Denver - Fired, 2000. KC - Fired 2003. UT - coDC 1 yr.

He was let go twice in the 5 years prior from COORDINATOR jobs, he takes a job in college because he can't get hired in the NFL, and it's job share with a former long time HC.

Never a HC, other than the less than a year at UT, hadn't been in a college program for a full cycle 15 years

Here's a newsflash, coordinators who have been fired twice in the five prior years, with no HC experience,, are not HC's candidates at a major conference program.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Uh, his three jobs prior, Denver - Fired, 2000. KC - Fired 2003. UT - coDC 1 yr.

He was let go twice in the 5 years prior from COORDINATOR jobs, he takes a job in college because he can't get hired in the NFL, and it's job share with a former long time HC.

Never a HC, other than the less than a year at UT, hadn't been in a college program for a full cycle 15 years

Here's a newsflash, coordinators who have been fired twice in the five prior years, with no HC experience,, are not HC's candidates at a major conference program.

I'm pretty sure he wasn't fired by Texas, which you've said a few times now. They won the Rose Bowl in 2004 and then we hired him.

 

[SmilinBob]

The Robinson hire was the wrong move and history shows us that. I'll never forget being told by a college coach from KC that I was not going to be happy with this hire and me with my orange colored glasses thought he was wrong or hoped he was but he was dead on. That was the past.

Now, I'm hoping that Babers is on the Hill for 10 or so years and he has an assistant that will take the reins and keep this going much like Mac and P did...but topping them by adding a championship banner to hang in the Dome.

 

[GoSU96]

I'm pretty sure he wasn't fired by Texas, which you've said a few times now. They won the Rose Bowl in 2004 and then we hired him.

I never said he was fired from Texas. Couldn't have been any clearer on that.