Where does firing coach p rank

[IthacaMatt]

I haven't really thought about it but I would say I really wish looking back that we did a better job of getting a coach after him. It almost feels like we didn't really do a great job of thinking of what our opportunities were. Lost a lot of ground with that decision.

We got the defensive coordinator from a team that played for the National Championship.
There was really no way to predict how unbelievably bad he was going to be at the job.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Sure. But I thought the exercise here was to opine on where we'd be today if P hadn't been let go in late December 2004.

If people want to argue that a P-led program would have been ripping off 10 win seasons in 2011 and 2012 that's cool. I don't know how to square that, though, with the argument that the program's decline was due to our lack of investment. That investment hadn't really happened in the late '00s so unless someone thinks a P-led program would have been at a 10 win level then it seems we'd have ended up in a similar place. That being, an 8 win, Big East program in 2012 that was (again) torpedoed by a bad hire in 2013.

Just look at how P did at UConn. There's no reason to think that wouldn't have eventually been us, too, if we had retained him.

 

[TheCusian]

Other than 2002 you have to go back to 1982 for season with less than 5 wins. Since P was let go, 9 out of 13.

P's four year record when he was fired was 26-23. The guy after went 10-37. This was not an inherently 10-37 program when P was fired. You could argue it has been since.

Just because the outcome was poor, doesn’t mean it wasn’t ultimately time for
P to go next season. I don’t buy the case he was going to pull it out of his nosedive. With planning and a better AD, there’s no reason to think our doledrums would continue post P.

Hindsight is 20/20 and all that

 

[GoSU96]

We got the defensive coordinator from a team that played for the National Championship.
There was really no way to predict how unbelievably bad he was going to be at the job.

Uh, yeah there was. I posted all the warning signs in real time.

 

[GoSU96]

Just because the outcome was poor, doesn’t mean it wasn’t ultimately time for
P to go next season. I don’t buy the case he was going to pull it out of his nosedive. With planning and a better AD, there’s no reason to think our doledrums would continue post P.

Hindsight is 20/20 and all that

Except when it isn't hindsight.

 

[TheCusian]

Except when it isn't hindsight.

There’s no way to prove otherwise. You can say “I didn’t think he should have been fired as it was happening” ... but Robinson’s implosion is proof of a bad hire, not proof that P would have righted the ship and just needed more time.

The ill-timed firing and bad hire of Robinson *is* proof of the bad leadership of Cantor and Gross. But not proof Coach P was the guy to take us into the future.

 

[OrangeTarheel]

It became clear in time the problem wasn't just Coach P - it was a failing conference, low revenue and poor leadership. In retrospect it's amazing we have battled back from being in that spot to have a fighters chance at relevance again. P really didn't stand a chance, someone was going to have to take the blame for our poor performance.

Coach P is not who you want to undertake a rebuild of a program in my opinion. He was a good football coach but maybe not one to lay his hand to an entire program and culture ... I think judging him based on his time at UConn is unfair. That wasn't his strength.

It would be great to have him back here involved in the program in some way, he was at the helm for some memorable moments.

 

[sufandu]

Coach P was/is a very good coach. He wouldn'tkeep getting NFL jobs if he wasn't. It takes more than that to get/keep a college program rolling.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Coach P was/is a very good coach. He wouldn'tkeep getting NFL jobs if he wasn't. It takes more than that to get/keep a college program rolling.

He's a good teacher of technique. He's not great at either play calling or recruiting.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Uh, yeah there was. I posted all the warning signs in real time.

Yes, I remember there were a few people who said he flamed out as DC of Denver, but he had coached 2 Super Bowl teams in Denver, and bounced back pretty good at Texas, most people agreed. His Texas defense turned around quickly and by major amounts.

His worst failures were Syracuse and then Michigan. None of that had happened at the time we hired him.

My point was that, on paper, it was about as good a hire as you could hope for at SU at the time.

 

[elimunelson]

There’s no way to prove otherwise. You can say “I didn’t think he should have been fired as it was happening” ... but Robinson’s implosion is proof of a bad hire, not proof that P would have righted the ship and just needed more time.

The ill-timed firing and bad hire of Robinson *is* proof of the bad leadership of Cantor and Gross. But not proof Coach P was the guy to take us into the future.

I think this is fair. It really tough to determine what we consider success now vs 2005 in terms of the fall of this program. Hardest thing for me to analyze is this. I think P would have kept us in the 5-8 win range during the big east watered down days. He was a good coach and would have found success again.

Todays expectations we throw parades for 8 win seasons but the inmates in 2005 wanted 1997 like team which could dazzle.

I liked Paul as a coach bc was a football coach and not a sound bite. Guy is a technician. It may not build culture but there is places for guys like this in the game.

 

[SWC75]

We've done the Coach P thing to death and everybody knows what everybody is going to say about it. A more interesting question is: What if we hired someone other than G-Rob to replace him? Who else was available and interested and how would they have done? How did they do in the jobs they got?

If, as one poster suggests, Marrone was on that list, I would have liked to what he could have done inheriting a 6-6 program rather than a 3-9 program. He wouldn't have had to start from the ground up.

 

[TexanMark]

1999 was a wake up call...SU didn't notice and PP didn't fight for help

 

[elimunelson]

We've done the Coach P thing to death and everybody knows what everybody is going to say about it. A more interesting question is: What if we hired someone other than G-Rob to replace him? Who else was available and interested and how would they have done? How did they do in the jobs they got?

If, as one poster suggests, Marrone was on that list, I would have liked to what he could have done inheriting a 6-6 program rather than a 3-9 program. He wouldn't have had to start from the ground up.

Norm Chow was the hot name right? Complete disaster as well.

The start of the 2005 season was interesting as well. We played WVU (who went on to win the Sugar Bowl) in game 1, another tough one vs a ranked Virginia team and then the bottom fell out. Weirdly had a shot at 3-0 against as tough a start (and then no biggie, at FSU game 4). Not making excuses for a bad coach but that was a tough way to get out of the box for GERG.

We seemed to set ourselves up with the hardest gauntlet of starting games of any program ever.

 

[DoctorBombay]

We've done the Coach P thing to death and everybody knows what everybody is going to say about it. A more interesting question is: What if we hired someone other than G-Rob to replace him? Who else was available and interested and how would they have done? How did they do in the jobs they got?

If, as one poster suggests, Marrone was on that list, I would have liked to what he could have done inheriting a 6-6 program rather than a 3-9 program. He wouldn't have had to start from the ground up.

The problem w/ this type of thing is that there’s no way to know if the Doug Marrone we ended up w/, would’ve been what we had in the early aughts. What if he was green and not ready for a HC job at SU? Remember even Bellichick failed in Cleveland before becoming the Pats HC. Sometimes timing is everything, which is why having a proven & experienced performer in HCDB is so valuable.

 

[sufandu]

1999 was a wake up call...SU didn't notice and PP didn't fight for help

I don't know if he was just a put your nose to the grindstone guy or what, but he certainly didn't realize he needed to exert some influence or thought it wasn't his place to.

 

[Stevenson]

Cantor was an abomination to both academics and athletics.

 

[721Comstock]

Cantor was an abomination to both academics and athletics.

And aesthetics.

 

[tipphill]

No win situation. I truly think he would have been retained if the bowl game was even close. Getting destroyed left the admin with no choice. It was late in the game, SU didnt step up at the level needed and ended up with a coach who needed a map to find the east coast let alone CNY. Its a miracle we survived the little train that couldn't. 2.

so far off base. the reason pp was so far behind was totally the responsibility of the administration. they did not re invest in the program---he was playing with the hand he was dealt,from an series of inept chancellors and ads

 

[SWC75]

The problem w/ this type of thing is that there’s no way to know if the Doug Marrone we ended up w/, would’ve been what we had in the early aughts. What if he was green and not ready for a HC job at SU? Remember even Bellichick failed in Cleveland before becoming the Pats HC. Sometimes timing is everything, which is why having a proven & experienced performer in HCDB is so valuable.

Belichick was doing well in Cleveland until Model announced they were moving. That seemed to take all the heart out of the team.
Bill Belichick - Wikipedia

 

[Delmar]

If we waited 2 more years, we would have gotten Saban and would have won 8 national championships by now. I am trying to write the most delusional post ever written on this site. How am I doing?

 

[TexanMark]

If we waited 2 more years, we would have gotten Saban and would have won 8 national championships by now. I am trying to write the most delusional post ever written on this site. How am I doing?

Pretty good...my take

If SU would've fired Maloney very early and promoted 20 something Nick Saban to HC Syracuse would have 20 or so Natties by now. Nick would've made Tom Coughlin the OC and Randy Edsall the WaterBoy too.

 

[Delmar]

Pretty good...my take

If SU would've fired Maloney very early and promoted 20 something Nick Saban to HC Syracuse would have 20 or so Natties by now. Nick would've made Tom Coughlin the OC and Randy Edsall the WaterBoy too.

Damn. That's far more delusional than my post.

 

[SWC75]

Damn. That's far more delusional than my post.

Still short of Igor, who said "We have waaay more talent than Miami", who beat us 59-0.

Then there's Rutgers Al who compared the Scarlet Knights to the '85 Bears after a 47-15 loss to Cincinnati.

 

[tipphill]

Cantor was an abomination to both academics and athletics.

as was shaw