Who honestly has confidence in Mike Hopkins as the next HC

[sutomcat]

I don't know about "never, under any circumstances" as that is 100% your opinion. There are no guarantees, but probabilities. No one had foreseen the 2004 expansion debacle. I realize SU rather desperately needed to get either an ACC or B1G invite, knowing the dire circumstances of being left without a chair to sit in once the music stopped. Who knows for sure if the B1G takes us over Rutgers if we don't get that ACC invite. Syracuse by no means was in a voluntary hedging position. Many here I recall were quite concerned about SU's plight if an offer hypothetically never came. There was a lot of debate of who best captured NYC's lucrative TV market, etc. and it wasn't clear it was Syracuse over UConn and or Rutgers. Fortunately, similar as the Colts left Baltimore in the middle of night, we quietly got that ACC lifeline.

Agree to disagree.

We were targeted for inclusion in the ACC for decades before it happened. The only reason it didn't happen decades ago was our extreme loyalty to the conference we founded. We did everything humanly possible to keep it going but when it was clear it was going to die, we left as well.

 

[jgeorge322]

I think a lot of it has to do with playing in a giant barn. You put 16k-20k SU fans in an NBA arena, and the place would be lit.

no, its because like every crowd, team hasn't been exciting in awhile.

 

[Sherman20]

Georgetown was dominant in the 1980s.
UConn started being dominant in 1990.
They have been good since then.

Syracuse was the most consistent team of the Big East from the beginning till we left.
UConn gets the most out of the runs. They have 5 FFs and 4 NCs.
We have 5 FFs and 1 NC.
Now one of them 1987 we literally lost in private punching way and I don't want to even describe
In 1996 we played one of the best college modern college teams of alltime.
In 2003 we won it all.
2013 our offense cost us a NC IMO. If we have a decent offense we win it all.
2016 was the fluke year we didn't have a NC team but still made a Final Four.

They have the titles so they get that credit but this isn't a situation where we have underachieved like Arizona. Outside of Duke 1999 who was a dominant team. They have played 3 seed Georgia Tech in 2004, 8 seed Butler in 2011, 8 seed Kentucky in 2014. They won them so they get the credit but to have that horseshoe up their butts of playing two 8 seeds in the NC game is frustrating, We never got that luck unfortunately.

Michigan State has all those Final Fours under Izzo 8 of them and only 1 NC. Michigan State is a better program than UConn though.

Great post. But one correction: Cuse has 6 Final Fours all time. You forgot 1975.

 

[Alsacs]

Great post. But one correction: Cuse has 6 Final Fours all time. You forgot 1975.

I meant from the Big East era but didn’t put that.
I know about 75 in San Diego.

 

[Toga]

What drove college expansion was cable boxes and networks being owned by conferences.
Rutgers had NJ and was close enough to NYC that the Big Ten along with its relationship with Fox who owned half of the BTN and bought YES from the Yankees could get BTN on basic cable in NYC.
NJ population > CT population. The Big Ten chose Rutgers over UConn.

Syracuse was considered for the Big Ten but it wasn't a good fit. 11 of 12 members state university land grant flagships and private school Northwestern in Chicago.
ACC was where we wanted ever since 2003.
ACC expanded because it needed more schools to renegotiate a bad TV long term contract that would have left it vulnerable to be poached by the Big Ten and SEC.
ESPN protected the ACC so they added Syracuse whom they always liked and chose Pitt over UConn because of bad blood from BC and suing the conference and WVU because the ACC didn't like the academics when Pitt was available.

Big Ten wanted UVA and UNC first. Both schools declined so they went to Rutgers for the reasons above and Maryland to get into DC for more cable boxes. Maryland only agreed because Debbie Yow wasted a lot of money in the AD and the school was going to have to cut a lot of sports because they couldn't raise money from students in the general fund like Rutgers and a lot of other public schools do.

I wish I could spend the time to write a book as I could do it well with cooperation.

Totally agree about writing a book.

 

[Sherman20]

I don't know about "never, under any circumstances" as that is 100% your opinion. There are no guarantees, but probabilities. No one had foreseen the 2004 expansion debacle. I realize SU rather desperately needed to get either an ACC or B1G invite, knowing the dire circumstances of being left without a chair to sit in once the music stopped. Who knows for sure if the B1G takes us over Rutgers if we don't get that ACC invite. Syracuse by no means was in a voluntary hedging position. Many here I recall were quite concerned about SU's plight if an offer hypothetically never came. There was a lot of debate of who best captured NYC's lucrative TV market, etc. and it wasn't clear it was Syracuse over UConn and or Rutgers. Fortunately, similar as the Colts left Baltimore in the middle of night, we quietly got that ACC lifeline.

These decisions are ultimately being made by academic administrators (university Presidents in consultation with the ADs) and Syracuse was always a top ACC target. It would have been Syracuse, Miami and BC in the 2003-2004 expansion drama if the Virginia Governor hadn’t intervened on behalf of Virginia Tech and messed up the long-established plan. The ACC always wanted Syracuse. I wasn’t on the board back during the 2003-2005 ACC expansion and then the subsequent 2012 invite. But read the Frank the Tank blog about the reasons the ACC always wanted Syracuse—he had the best insights on conference expansion.

 

[NKR1978]

Did you watch the Gonzaga game? Students and fans confused me if they didnt care. Our student section blows.

I'm not sure what our student sections has witnessed to get them excited recently. Back in the days when we were good our students showed up in huge numbers and they were loud. But I still see crowds at games that most schools would kill for.
I doubt I'll hear audible "let's go huskies" chants in arenas up and down the west coast if I were to watch their games like I did Saturday at GT and in countless other games over the years.

And in light of the fact that UW has clearly surpassed us in all aspects of their program, I have to assume that their fans will absolutely swarm Vegas for the tournament. It'll be a sea of purple for their games like it was for us in the BE days.

 

[two3zone]

I'm not sure what our student sections has witnessed to get them excited recently. Back in the days when we were good our students showed up in huge numbers and they were loud. But I still see crowds at games that most schools would kill for.
I doubt I'll hear audible "let's go huskies" chants in arenas up and down the west coast if I were to watch their games like I did Saturday at GT and in countless other games over the years.

And in light of the fact that UW has clearly surpassed us in all aspects of their program, I have to assume that their fans will absolutely swarm Vegas for the tournament. It'll be a sea of purple for their games like it was for us in the BE days.

Not sure a lot if Washington alum live in Vegas like Syracuse alum live in NY.

We're not in the BE anymore, things change, life changes, and programs change. We're not the same program we were.

 

[Dave85]

The more success and time Hop has in Washington the less likelihood he's coming back East in my opinion.

 

[NKR1978]

Not sure a lot if Washington alum live in Vegas like Syracuse alum live in NY.

We're not in the BE anymore, things change, life changes, and programs change. We're not the same program we were.

Maybe they don’t have alumni in Vegas, so I’m sure they’ll have a noticeable and audible presence in the Bay Area and LA. They must have alumni in those areas.

It’s possible to admit our program is down right now while also acknowledging that Syracuse has some unique advantages.

 

[MSOrange]

Maybe they don’t have alumni in Vegas, so I’m sure they’ll have a noticeable and audible presence in the Bay Area and LA. They must have alumni in those areas.

It’s possible to admit our program is down right now while also acknowledging that Syracuse has some unique advantages.

Don't you know we're basically as attractive as the local community college at this point?

 

[orangecuse]

These decisions are ultimately being made by academic administrators (university Presidents in consultation with the ADs) and Syracuse was always a top ACC target. It would have been Syracuse, Miami and BC in the 2003-2004 expansion drama if the Virginia Governor hadn’t intervened on behalf of Virginia Tech and messed up the long-established plan. The ACC always wanted Syracuse. I wasn’t on the board back during the 2003-2005 ACC expansion and then the subsequent 2012 invite. But read the Frank the Tank blog about the reasons the ACC always wanted Syracuse—he had the best insights on conference expansion.

I'm well aware of the '03-'04 expansion debacle and when VA's Governor (Mark Warner) intervened and tied the University of Virginia's hands. I also remember the panic here (although at that time it was a Rivals or Scout board). I also remember the real concern here if we somehow got left out in the next expansion go around, etc. as most could envision the dire plight it would've left on the athletic department, especially football. Fortunately, the ACC invite/process went through and wasn't held up again by some political or other external unforeseen circumstance, etc. In the end, all fans of SU should be forever grateful for the ACC extending us the lifeline they did.

 

[CusefanATL]

I ABSOLUTELY LOVE THAT THIS WAS FOUND!!! THIS JUST MADE MY ENTIRE 2019!

i'll have to schedule out about 45 minutes this week to properly dissect this but I already know a lot of you made very contradictory comments 3 shorts years ago. Cant wait.

 

[Dave85]

I ABSOLUTELY LOVE THAT THIS WAS FOUND!!! THIS JUST MADE MY ENTIRE 2019!

i'll have to schedule out about 45 minutes this week to properly dissect this but I already know a lot of you made very contradictory comments 3 shorts years ago. Cant wait.

Well, besides being a national champion in non-sequiturs I also have awards in "Logical Inconsistencies". Besides stating the obvious, I considered non-sequiturs and logical inconsistencies my other special powers.

 

[kirbivore]

This isn't true. Once the Big East started breaking up, the only question for Syracuse was whether they would go to the ACC or the B1G. We knew the ACC was a better fit for us and made the right choice.

If not for the ACC, we could have been Rutgers. That could have happened, though we had been getting courted by the ACC since at least 1990.

We would never, under any circumstances, be stuck in the same place that UConn ended up. Now if we ended up in Rutgers slot in the B1G, Rutgers might have ended up in the ACC. But I think it just as likely that UConn could have been the ACC choice and Rutgers would have been left out in the cold.

Once the biggest impediment to joining the ACC was gone (Jake) SU was good to go

 

[kirbivore]

But read the Frank the Tank blog about the reasons the ACC always wanted Syracuse—he had the best insights on conference expansion.

A glorified dude from WV. No thanks

 

[Alsacs]

Once the biggest impediment to joining the ACC was gone (Jake) SU was good to go

Syracuse was going to the ACC 2003.
Jake Crouthamel wasn’t going to stop it in 2003.
Marc Warner forcing UVA to be a no vote unless VPI was added and Duke/UNC being nos for anyone but Miami as 10th team gave Marc Warner/UVA leverage to force VPI into the conference.

If UNC and Duke weren’t no votes for anymore than 1 addition the conference probably adds BC/SU/Miami in 2003.
Maybe VPI ends up in the SEC over Missouri in that scenario.

Jake stopped SU from joining the ACC in 1990 when the Gene Corrigan the old ACC commissioner wanted both Syracuse and Florida State as 9th members.

Florida State was offered by the SEC and ACC. The SEC wanted Arkansas and Florida State. Florida State chose the ACC because Bowden wanted to dominate the conference. So the SEC offered South Carolina and Arkansas.
Florida State joined the ACC and Syracuse because Jake was loyal and the Big East got WVU/Miami/VPI as part of a football conference to go with the hoops league decided to stay.

 

[HOFCeluck]

Conference realignment talk is literally the worst.

Let’s go five pages about GORs and Tier 3 rights now.

 

[Alsacs]

Conference realignment talk is literally the worst.

Let’s go five pages about GORs and Tier 3 rights now.

You are talking about the WVU “fake news” brigade.
Their butthurtness at the ACC really hurt the topic.
Only one school has really lost in conference realignment.
UConn.

 

[lionf96]

Washington is a good job. The conference though sucks.
Oregon made a Final Four.
Arizona keeps choking in the Elite 8.
UCLA ran off its most successful coach since Wooden.

The Syracuse job is better. Has more upside and it’s not close.

Those are reasons to stay in the Pac-12. The road to the NCAA tourney is easier. Who cares how other teams do, all he has to do is worry about his team. He is also doing better job at recruiting there than when he was in the ACC.

Unless Jim Boeheim can improve the situation here, I dont see Hop coming and trying to rebuild a bad team.

 

[Alsacs]

Those are reasons to stay in the Pac-12. The road to the NCAA tourney is easier. Who cares how other teams do, all he has to do is worry about his team. He is also doing better job at recruiting there than when he was in the ACC.

Unless Jim Boeheim can improve the situation here, I dont see Hop coming and trying to rebuild a bad team.

The worse shape the program is in the more likely Hopkins will be to come back IMO.
He loves the program and if we needed him to revive it I think our of loyalty he would.
If we are a bubble team and just medicore then I don’t see him as saying he is needed. However if we become UNC 2001-2002, UCLA 2002-2003 and the program bottoms out which I don’t expect I think he would come back.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Those are reasons to stay in the Pac-12. The road to the NCAA tourney is easier. Who cares how other teams do, all he has to do is worry about his team. He is also doing better job at recruiting there than when he was in the ACC.

Unless Jim Boeheim can improve the situation here, I dont see Hop coming and trying to rebuild a bad team.

If anything the road to the tournament in the PAC 12 is harder. He went 15-3 and was an 9 seed. This year may be no different.

We were an 8 seed last year.

 

[two3zone]

If anything the road to the tournament in the PAC 12 is harder. He went 15-3 and was an 9 seed. This year may be no different.

We were an 8 seed last year.

This year is clearly different. Last year was an anomaly and I've seen you post it over and over like its regularly a one bid league. It's not.

 

[Cusefan0307]

This year is clearly different. Last year was an anomaly and I've seen you post it over and over like its regularly a one bid league. It's not.

They beat Baylor and lost to the Zags/Tennessee. It's not a one bid league, but it's not good either. Zona/Oregon/UW is the hierarchy. They have 4 other chances for top 50 wins as it stands now. Zona twice and Oregon.

This is a weak year for the ACC and a weak ACC schedule for Syracuse and we have 7 games against top 50 teams left and already played 4. I get we lost, but in most instances you have more opportunities in the ACC to make up for losses than you do in the PAC 12. It's a 3-4 bid league this year.

 

[MSOrange]

This year is clearly different. Last year was an anomaly and I've seen you post it over and over like its regularly a one bid league. It's not.

Not a one bid league but most years this decade, it's been a 2-4 bid league with often the league champ being the only decent seed. Hey I realize it's the greatest league you've ever seen, but... at least 2016 was a good year. I'll give you that.

2010 2
2011 4
2012 2
2013 5
2014 6
2015 4
2016 7
2017 4
2018 3
2019 3