Class of 2015 Who is Underrated?

[javadoc]

Heading for the finish line a couple things are coming into focus.

Shafer's stated strategy of going after lesser known guys is yielding a massive class of generally "3-star" guys. I remember in the late days of P's reign we would get classes of 2-star guys with 5-10 3-star guys. I figured we would be competitive if we could get 9 3-star guys a year, because that would give us a full starting roster on both sides of the ball where the youngest guys would be redshirt sophomores, and all with (other) good offers. This class has ~20 3-star guys. That is recruiting depth that I have not seen in 15 years.

The home stretch is exciting! Staff is using the final spots to go after the more highly-recruited guys who didn't want to decide early. The Ealey commit came out of left field for me, and it reminded me that we fans have no idea what is going on behind the scenes. We're sitting on a solid bunch and looking for garnish, and the staff is going to work. Good times!

So now for the fan service. Time to play "who is underrated?" To my mind, there are 4 categories of recruit:

• 2-star: project, developmental player - guy who might or might not pan out, too many variables to predict accurately.
• 3-star: average P5 recruit, guy who is expected to be a solid contributor at some point, generally in the 3rd year.
• 4-star: difference-maker, guy who opposing coaches take note of when scouting. Contributes early, especially at the skill positions.
• 5-star: select superstar from whom big things is expected, even at the factories. Should be contributing in a difference-maker capacity no later than the 2nd year.

We don't have any 4-star guys according to the rating services at this point. Do you see anyone on our commit list who you think should be?

 

[Louie and Bouie]

Strickland and Crawford if we can ink him.

Also like the safety Frederick although not 4 star status at this point. He's my sleeper. I think he'll put on weight and be a good one.

 

[tep624]

I think Strickland, Ealey, Blair, and Henderson probably have the best case for being a 4 star. Strickland actually is over at 247. I could also see an argument for Conway, he committed really early and has a ton of potential.

As far as my picks for the under the radar gems, I'd go with Fredericks (the RB), Clark, Clausman, and Shy Cullen. I love Shy Cullen's game and IMO, worst case scenario he becomes a major impact player on Specials.

One thing I do like is that even with the under the radar or underrecruited (whatever you want to call them) defensive guys, we're always going after guys with high energy levels and a high motor. I love that. I would rather see a flyer taken on a kid who flies all around the field anyday of the week over some big blob that we're hoping loses weight.

 

[bcubs9497]

Personally, I think Steven's somewhat underrated. Especially when I look at film from other DTs such as Raequan Williams. Or the film I have from him going up against Zach Giella and Wyatt Knopfke. I'd think he should be right around a 90-92 rating (247 has him as an 86 right now).

I'd really like JackBauer's opinion, if he's able to give it.

 

[texascpa]

Henderson for sure. Strickland, as well.

 

[Rocco]

Personally, I think Steven's somewhat underrated. Especially when I look at film from other DTs such as Raequan Williams. Or the film I have from him going up against Zach Giella and Wyatt Knopfke. I'd think he should be right around a 90-92 rating (247 has him as an 86 right now).

Your kid is a 5 star. That's what I'm sticking with at least. Absolutely loved watching that film. Quickness is awesome.

In all honesty, I hate the star rankings. I understand it is the widely accepted and understood way of ranking these players, but it is incredibly inaccurate.

I'm sure we will have some kids that will shine and some that won't find a role, same as every school. Which of ours pan out? Not a clue.

I just hope that more end up being solid contributors than not. That's all that really matters.

 

[bcubs9497]

Your kid is a 5 star. That's what I'm sticking with at least. Absolutely loved watching that film. Quickness is awesome.

In all honesty, I hate the star rankings. I understand it is the widely accepted and understood way of ranking these players, but it is incredibly inaccurate.

I'm sure we will have some kids that will shine and some that won't find a role, same as every school. Which of ours pan out? Not a clue.

I just hope that more end up being solid contributors than not. That's all that really matters.

Absolutely.

 

[javadoc]

Personally, I think Steven's somewhat underrated. Especially when I look at film from other DTs such as Raequan Williams. Or the film I have from him going up against Zach Giella and Wyatt Knopfke. I'd think he should be right around a 90-92 rating (247 has him as an 86 right now).

I'd really like JackBauer's opinion, if he's able to give it.

I watched Steven's film, and I loved it.

Two years ago, in the final game of the year against BC, we were 5-6 and needing the win to go bowling. We were down a couple points late, and on the final drive, we got down inside the 10 with no timeouts, ~10 secs left. McDonald called a blind throwback to the TE behind the line, with 2 blockers in the vicinity. I have to assume it caught everyone by surprise - we had no TO's and we only a needed a FG for overtime - but the 2 blockers on that side generally whiffed on their assignments. The TE caught the pass and ran it in with a minimum of moves, but he should have walked in, had guys blocked.

I have no doubt that Steven will annihilate his man when he pulls.

 

[JackBauer44]

Personally, I think Steven's somewhat underrated. Especially when I look at film from other DTs such as Raequan Williams. Or the film I have from him going up against Zach Giella and Wyatt Knopfke. I'd think he should be right around a 90-92 rating (247 has him as an 86 right now).

I'd really like JackBauer's opinion, if he's able to give it.

Ask and you shall receive. It should be noted that when I played, I was a 6'3, 310 pound noseguard. I like to think that if I hadn't torn up my knee three times, I would have definitely been a D1 Noseguard. I still remember George DeLeone telling me not many schools would be willing to look at 300 pound noseguards with triple knee surgeries, but if he could do anything for me to let him know. I've said this to a couple people, but I see a lot of me in Steven's tape from when I played.

I was on record back when we offered Steven saying that I loved his tape. There are certain things you look at when evaluating defensive linemen, especially bigger linemen. In Steven's case, being 6'3 and 290 - I consider him a bigger defensive line prospect. I brought up his HUDL page today and saw his numbers are SPARQ verified, which is nice to see. a 5.3 40 yard dash for a 290 pounder is impressive. Once he gets into a D1 strength program, his body fat will decrease, strength and **good* weight will increase, and his 40 yard dash with proper technique can definitely go down to a 5.1/5.0. Here's the thing though.. How often are defensive linemen sprinting 40 yards? Busted plays and pursuit angles. 10 yard splits are much more important in my opinion. When watching tape, looking at burst off the line of scrimmage is very important. The very first play on Steven's HUDL tape, he darts out immediately off the snap into a great starting position. A lot of larger defensive linemen get into the habit of standing up, engaging, and then trying to do their damage. Steven takes a quick power step, is moving forward, has his As* back, back straight, and hands out ready to engage. Even more impressively, is how quick he stops, sinks his hips, and moves to the screen; which ends in a violent tackle. That takes agility. I'd love to see him perform in a 4 cone drill.

1:04 mark in his tape. He reads the quarterback rollout. Many players get in a habit of bad angles here, and easily let the quarterback out of the pocked. Steven used good technique in grabbing the outside shoulder/middle of the chest plate, and moving at an angle to not get beat to the outside. That's football IQ and good recognition. How can that be used in the interior defensive line? On run blitzes, NG's and DT's are usually slanting a certain way, and it's important to get hands on the outside shoulderpad/chestplate, because proper technique and using the proper angles is how DT's get tackles in the backfield. This is especially useful against teams that try a lot of zone run-reads. Eric Crume was very good at doing this, as well as Jay Bromely, but he was good at everything he did.

1:34 mark - he gets out quick on his stance, makes a good run read and pursues well. Here's where he could get in a bit of trouble. Defensive line coaches hate Swim moves or modified swim moves. It exposes a large chunk of your torso, and makes it easy to get down-blocked if you are facing a competent offensive linemen. Steve uses a mini swim move to get around the RB blocker. I'd suggest not to get to dependent on the swim. A violent club, rip is a great tool for a DT to use.

The 1:42 mark is possibly my favorite part of the tape. Great acceleration of the snap, but the pretty part is probably the most unnoticed. Steven displays a very natural hip bend in turning the corner to get after the quarterback. That helps you accelerate so much more quickly. If you can throw a great pass rushing move in with natural hip bend, it's a great tool towards beating an OL on a pass rush.

2:11 shoes a great rip move to get around the offensive tackle for the sack.

I think my biggest criticism of Steven's tape is it looks like when he is expecting the Run, he has a tendency to take a shorter step out of his stance, which causes him to come out high. When battling in the trenches, the lower man will always win the battle.

In my not so expert opinion, Steven is most definitely a someone who went under recruited, mostly because he played in a very small conference. I can tell you benching 380 and squatting 565 at the high school level is very impressive. Flexibility is key though. Keep building strength, but make sure stretching, yoga, power yoga, and believe it or not, Ballet is a great exercise for linemen to do it. Yes, I did it. No, I won't show pictures. Yes, there are some. Changing the subject...

I think Steven can turn into an excellent player for the Orange. There's a lot to like about his tape. There's a reason a why the staff went after him so quickly after they received his tape from Pop. They didn't want anyone else getting on him. It would not surprise me one bit for other teams to come calling in January when they are trying to fill out their class.

Just my two cents.

 

[bcubs9497]

Thanks, Jack.

Who else, in your opinion, is underrated? Also, what should we expect of the class/team as a whole in the next 2-3 years?

 

[texascpa]

Personally, I think Steven's somewhat underrated. Especially when I look at film from other DTs such as Raequan Williams. Or the film I have from him going up against Zach Giella and Wyatt Knopfke. I'd think he should be right around a 90-92 rating (247 has him as an 86 right now).

I'd really like JackBauer's opinion, if he's able to give it.

Cubs how many camps or combines did Steven go to, particularly those sponsored by the rating sites or major companies?

 

[oldpinepoint]

Ask and you shall receive. It should be noted that when I played, I was a 6'3, 310 pound noseguard. I like to think that if I hadn't torn up my knee three times, I would have definitely been a D1 Noseguard. I still remember George DeLeone telling me not many schools would be willing to look at 300 pound noseguards with triple knee surgeries, but if he could do anything for me to let him know. I've said this to a couple people, but I see a lot of me in Steven's tape from when I played.

I was on record back when we offered Steven saying that I loved his tape. There are certain things you look at when evaluating defensive linemen, especially bigger linemen. In Steven's case, being 6'3 and 290 - I consider him a bigger defensive line prospect. I brought up his HUDL page today and saw his numbers are SPARQ verified, which is nice to see. a 5.3 40 yard dash for a 290 pounder is impressive. Once he gets into a D1 strength program, his body fat will decrease, strength and **good* weight will increase, and his 40 yard dash with proper technique can definitely go down to a 5.1/5.0. Here's the thing though.. How often are defensive linemen sprinting 40 yards? Busted plays and pursuit angles. 10 yard splits are much more important in my opinion. When watching tape, looking at burst off the line of scrimmage is very important. The very first play on Steven's HUDL tape, he darts out immediately off the snap into a great starting position. A lot of larger defensive linemen get into the habit of standing up, engaging, and then trying to do their damage. Steven takes a quick power step, is moving forward, has his As* back, back straight, and hands out ready to engage. Even more impressively, is how quick he stops, sinks his hips, and moves to the screen; which ends in a violent tackle. That takes agility. I'd love to see him perform in a 4 cone drill.

1:04 mark in his tape. He reads the quarterback rollout. Many players get in a habit of bad angles here, and easily let the quarterback out of the pocked. Steven used good technique in grabbing the outside shoulder/middle of the chest plate, and moving at an angle to not get beat to the outside. That's football IQ and good recognition. How can that be used in the interior defensive line? On run blitzes, NG's and DT's are usually slanting a certain way, and it's important to get hands on the outside shoulderpad/chestplate, because proper technique and using the proper angles is how DT's get tackles in the backfield. This is especially useful against teams that try a lot of zone run-reads. Eric Crume was very good at doing this, as well as Jay Bromely, but he was good at everything he did.

1:34 mark - he gets out quick on his stance, makes a good run read and pursues well. Here's where he could get in a bit of trouble. Defensive line coaches hate Swim moves or modified swim moves. It exposes a large chunk of your torso, and makes it easy to get down-blocked if you are facing a competent offensive linemen. Steve uses a mini swim move to get around the RB blocker. I'd suggest not to get to dependent on the swim. A violent club, rip is a great tool for a DT to use.

The 1:42 mark is possibly my favorite part of the tape. Great acceleration of the snap, but the pretty part is probably the most unnoticed. Steven displays a very natural hip bend in turning the corner to get after the quarterback. That helps you accelerate so much more quickly. If you can throw a great pass rushing move in with natural hip bend, it's a great tool towards beating an OL on a pass rush.

2:11 shoes a great rip move to get around the offensive tackle for the sack.

I think my biggest criticism of Steven's tape is it looks like when he is expecting the Run, he has a tendency to take a shorter step out of his stance, which causes him to come out high. When battling in the trenches, the lower man will always win the battle.

In my not so expert opinion, Steven is most definitely a someone who went under recruited, mostly because he played in a very small conference. I can tell you benching 380 and squatting 565 at the high school level is very impressive. Flexibility is key though. Keep building strength, but make sure stretching, yoga, power yoga, and believe it or not, Ballet is a great exercise for linemen to do it. Yes, I did it. No, I won't show pictures. Yes, there are some. Changing the subject...

I think Steven can turn into an excellent player for the Orange. There's a lot to like about his tape. There's a reason a why the staff went after him so quickly after they received his tape from Pop. They didn't want anyone else getting on him. It would not surprise me one bit for other teams to come calling in January when they are trying to fill out their class.

Just my two cents.

Exactly my analysis except I didn't want to type it out. That high school that turned you down is nuts

 

[bcubs9497]

Cubs how many camps or combines did Steven go to, particularly those sponsored by the rating sites or major companies?

In 2o12, he went to the NUC's Ultimate 100 in Atlanta. In 2013 he went to the NUC's 5 Star Showcase in Atlanta. This past spring he went to the Under Armour combine in Birmingham and the NFTC in Atlanta. One thing I learned from the whole experience is that if you're one of those "diamond in the rough" types, aka from a small, no-name high school, don't expect too much in terms of recruiting interest. Also, don't expect to get in too many 1 on 1's against players from the Hoovers of the world. I don't know how many times Steven tried to face off against Dallas Warmack at the NFTC; he'd get up to the line, head to head against Warmack, and he'd get pulled for another blue chipper. The same thing happened at the Under Armour combine; he was going to go head to head against Lester Cotton, and they pulled him off the line and put Daron Payne in his place.

I'm pretty sure he'd have beaten Dallas Warmack. Also pretty sure Lester Cotton would have beat him. Would have liked to have seen that, though, to better gauge his ability against known blue chippers.

At the Ultimate 100, I saw Steven handily beat Zach Giella and Wyatt Knopfke. And he did well against Zach Stewart (who, in my opinion, is a far better OL than Giella or Knopfke). ESPN has Stewart rated a 75, while Giella and Knopfke are both 80s. Personally, I think they're wrong. I'd take Stewart over either one; Stewart's a tough kid.

Anyways, I guess videos of blue chip linemen banging away at each other generates more web page hits, dontcha know.

 

[oldpinepoint]

In 2o12, he went to the NUC's Ultimate 100 in Atlanta. In 2013 he went to the NUC's 5 Star Showcase in Atlanta. This past spring he went to the Under Armour combine in Birmingham and the NFTC in Atlanta. One thing I learned from the whole experience is that if you're one of those "diamond in the rough" types, aka from a small, no-name high school, don't expect too much in terms of recruiting interest. Also, don't expect to get in too many 1 on 1's against players from the Hoovers of the world. I don't know how many times Steven tried to face off against Dallas Warmack at the NFTC; he'd get up to the line, head to head against Warmack, and he'd get pulled for another blue chipper. The same thing happened at the Under Armour combine; he was going to go head to head against Lester Cotton, and they pulled him off the line and put Daron Payne in his place.

Videos of blue chip linemen banging away at each other generates more web page hits, dontcha know.

Use it for motivation

 

[texascpa]

In 2o12, he went to the NUC's Ultimate 100 in Atlanta. In 2013 he went to the NUC's 5 Star Showcase in Atlanta. This past spring he went to the Under Armour combine in Birmingham and the NFTC in Atlanta. One thing I learned from the whole experience is that if you're one of those "diamond in the rough" types, aka from a small, no-name high school, don't expect too much in terms of recruiting interest. Also, don't expect to get in too many 1 on 1's against players from the Hoovers of the world. I don't know how many times Steven tried to face off against Dallas Warmack at the NFTC; he'd get up to the line, head to head against Warmack, and he'd get pulled for another blue chipper. The same thing happened at the Under Armour combine; he was going to go head to head against Lester Cotton, and they pulled him off the line and put Daron Payne in his place.

Videos of blue chip linemen banging away at each other generates more web page hits, dontcha know.

Just more evidence of the sham of the ratings system. Good to know. You and Bams have sure given some great insight to what goes on regarding the star and rating system.

 

[bcubs9497]

Just more evidence of the sham of the ratings system. Good to know. You and Bams have sure given some great insight to what goes on regarding the star and rating system.

To be honest, I do think that the recruiting sites, for the most part, get things right when it comes to the premier players coming out of the perennial high school power houses. I also think that there's a HUGE bias against good players coming from small programs.

I also think that it's a helluva lot easier for the premier college programs to fill their needs by only concentrating on the schools like Hoover. It's an awful lot of work to find those diamonds in the rough playing at small high schools.

 

[CuseLegacy]

Strickland and Crawford if we can ink him.

Also like the safety Frederick although not 4 star status at this point. He's my sleeper. I think he'll put on weight and be a good one.

Fredrick... please.

 

[TheCusian]

To be honest, I do think that the recruiting sites, for the most part, get things right when it comes to the premier players coming out of the perennial high school power houses. I also think that there's a HUGE bias against good players coming from small programs. I also think that it's a helluva lot easier for the premier college programs to fill their needs by only concentrating on the schools like Hoover. It's an awful lot of work to find those diamonds in the rough playing at small high schools.

Which explains why lots of our recruits have been getting bumps after we offer.

 

[Bambrewer]

Call me biased as usual but I would give Shy 4 stars using that out line. He will be playing the sam at syracuse and I believe he will excel there. When he moved to that position at the end of this year teams he faced stopped passing and started running the other way of where he lined up. Now sure he is in high school and college he will be facing bigger and stronger kids than he has. But I believe the speed he gets off the line and his upper body strength will get him off blocks and in the back field much quicker. Every coach he has talks to talks about him having a nose for the ball and getting there when the play is just developing I believe this will continue. I think opposing teams will need to account for him getting after them. He will have more gains in strength and size even before getting into the strength program.

The next up 4 star will be Trey depending on how he is used I think he will be a huge plus in the run game. I think he will be opening up holes for the backs and teams will need to compensate for that. He has good size and speed.

Troy Henderson is another his size and speed will be a big factor at the will position. He gets off blocks well and can get after the running backs even when he is chasing them down from behind he always seems to have good angles.

Then my final under valued is Sterling..not sure how a kicker that is top 3 gets 3 stars. Seems like a game changer right out of the box.

 

[SUOrange44]

Put me in the camp of Andrejas Duerig being underrated. I think the kid has major potential and a mean streak we will all be proud of.

SUOrange44

 

[RF2044]

Call me biased as usual but I would give Shy 4 stars using that out line. He will be playing the sam at syracuse and I believe he will excel there. When he moved to that position at the end of this year teams he faced stopped passing and started running the other way of where he lined up. Now sure he is in high school and college he will be facing bigger and stronger kids than he has. But I believe the speed he gets off the line and his upper body strength will get him off blocks and in the back field much quicker. Every coach he has talks to talks about him having a nose for the ball and getting there when the play is just developing I believe this will continue. I think opposing teams will need to account for him getting after them. He will have more gains in strength and size even before getting into the strength program.

The next up 4 star will be Trey depending on how he is used I think he will be a huge plus in the run game. I think he will be opening up holes for the backs and teams will need to compensate for that. He has good size and speed.

Troy Henderson is another his size and speed will be a big factor at the will position. He gets off blocks well and can get after the running backs even when he is chasing them down from behind he always seems to have good angles.

Then my final under valued is Sterling..not sure how a kicker that is top 3 gets 3 stars. Seems like a game changer right out of the box.

Those three are all legitimate candidates to potentially move up to a 4 star ranking, IMO.

 

[JackBauer44]

Ya know, finals are complete and I am done grading here at the University... We don't close until Friday, so I'm going to be doing a lot of sitting around in my office. I could start a commit evaluation series. I'll analyze tape and post some information on things they excel at and things they need to work on, and continue to get better in. Would that be of interest to people? If so, PM me with names you'd like me to start with, and I'll work my way down the whole commit list. I'll start up the series a little later in the morning (if people want to see something like that).

 

[Kelly029x]

Thanks Bam!! I agree! I am beyond excited for next year's season with the kids we have already coming in!!

 

[RF2044]

Ya know, finals are complete and I am done grading here at the University... We don't close until Friday, so I'm going to be doing a lot of sitting around in my office. I could start a commit evaluation series. I'll analyze tape and post some information on things they excel at and things they need to work on, and continue to get better in. Would that be of interest to people? If so, PM me with names you'd like me to start with, and I'll work my way down the whole commit list. I'll start up the series a little later in the morning (if people want to see something like that).

I'd love to hear your impressions of the two defensive ends from Florida.

 

[JackBauer44]

Thanks, Jack.

Who else, in your opinion, is underrated? Also, what should we expect of the class/team as a whole in the next 2-3 years?

IMO:

Underrated/Under Recruited:
Steven Clark
Trey Dunkelberger (no way this cat's a 2 star prospect, I'd be shocked if he didn't get bumped way higher. For all those bickering about JUCOs, he's the kind of JUCO we should be bringing in).
Eric Dungey
Anthony Guidace
Shy Cullen
Evan Adams (when you talk about potential, IMO, he's got the most in this class of OLmen).
Dontae Strickland (He should be a legitimate 4 star. I think he's going to play a lot next season).
Marquise Blair

For the most part, I'm fine with where a lot of our commits currently stand. OLmen are harder to project. When you look at 4* and 5* OLmen, one of the main differences is good weight vs bad weight. I do however think if you put a couple of our OLmen like Clausman and Byrne in Illinois or PA, they become 4 star prospects. I think they get some knacks thrown against them because of the really good players that play in the state of Florida. Their weight room numbers are off the charts.