Why and how to retain HCSS

[kcsu]

If im Coyle i would keep Shafer under the following provision.

* The team doesnt quit on him

* The team regardless of W/L continues to make progress.

* Recruiting continues to trend upward and he retains his key recruits in the event we continue to lose this year

* He agrees to review his staff and make adjustments that might be warranted such as the secondary and Oline

* There are no major off field issues.

If the above is met i would provide him with a 2 year extension. The extension would have a low and high end buy out. If he was let go with a less than 5 win season going forward the buyout would be the lower number. 6 wins or greater would earn the higher amount.

At this point with the injuries of last year, Lester being new and showing promise, More youth playing significant roles than at anytime in the history of SU Football, recruiting trending up i believe that unless we have the money to hire a true name coach and staff that we would be making a huge mistake to fire him after this year. The program is heading in the right direction regardless of the W/L results. To fire Shafer now could set us back many years. Next year we will still be very young but we will have the best depth at many key positions that we have had in years. This years recruiting class looks very strong and wih them in the fold combined with this years team growing bigger stronger faster and smarter coupled with another year in the Lester system we should be poised to do very well. At that point it the excuses will no longer exist and Coyle can make a true decision based on HCSS and his staff ability to coach.

One more years guys. That is the right call at this point.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

* The team regardless of W/L continues to make progress.

I think your proposal is reasonable, but how are you measuring the above bullet point?

I think as we get in to league play we might start looking worse and worse. Doesn't mean we are, just that the competition got harder and there's a lot more film on our young guys.

 

[SU68]

If im Coyle i would keep Shafer under the following provision.

* The team doesnt quit on him

* The team regardless of W/L continues to make progress.

* Recruiting continues to trend upward and he retains his key recruits in the event we continue to lose this year

* He agrees to review his staff and make adjustments that might be warranted such as the secondary and Oline

* There are no major off field issues.

If the above is met i would provide him with a 2 year extension. The extension would have a low and high end buy out. If he was let go with a less than 5 win season going forward the buyout would be the lower number. 6 wins or greater would earn the higher amount.

At this point with the injuries of last year, Lester being new and showing promise, More youth playing significant roles than at anytime in the history of SU Football, recruiting trending up i believe that unless we have the money to hire a true name coach and staff that we would be making a huge mistake to fire him after this year. The program is heading in the right direction regardless of the W/L results. To fire Shafer now could set us back many years. Next year we will still be very young but we will have the best depth at many key positions that we have had in years. This years recruiting class looks very strong and wih them in the fold combined with this years team growing bigger stronger faster and smarter coupled with another year in the Lester system we should be poised to do very well. At that point it the excuses will no longer exist and Coyle can make a true decision based on HCSS and his staff ability to coach.

One more years guys. That is the right call at this point.

I agree. We don't need a 4th head coach in 10 years. It would set the recruiting back another decade. Remember when Rutgers was a joke and Ray Rice was coming to SU?

 

[Dr. Bill]

If im Coyle i would keep Shafer under the following provision.

* The team doesnt quit on him

* The team regardless of W/L continues to make progress.

* Recruiting continues to trend upward and he retains his key recruits in the event we continue to lose this year

* He agrees to review his staff and make adjustments that might be warranted such as the secondary and Oline

* There are no major off field issues.

If the above is met i would provide him with a 2 year extension. The extension would have a low and high end buy out. If he was let go with a less than 5 win season going forward the buyout would be the lower number. 6 wins or greater would earn the higher amount.

At this point with the injuries of last year, Lester being new and showing promise, More youth playing significant roles than at anytime in the history of SU Football, recruiting trending up i believe that unless we have the money to hire a true name coach and staff that we would be making a huge mistake to fire him after this year. The program is heading in the right direction regardless of the W/L results. To fire Shafer now could set us back many years. Next year we will still be very young but we will have the best depth at many key positions that we have had in years. This years recruiting class looks very strong and wih them in the fold combined with this years team growing bigger stronger faster and smarter coupled with another year in the Lester system we should be poised to do very well. At that point it the excuses will no longer exist and Coyle can make a true decision based on HCSS and his staff ability to coach.

One more years guys. That is the right call at this point.

Great analysis and I agree 99%. The program is trending upward and I agree, the recruiting is getting better. I do think an infusion of talent at defensive tackle and cornerback is needed more than a new secondary and OLine coaching change.

 

[kcsu]

I think your proposal is reasonable, but how are you measuring the above bullet point?

I think as we get in to league play we might start looking worse and worse. Doesn't mean we are, just that the competition got harder and there's a lot more film on our young guys.

Good question but i dont think it is that hard. If you have played sports it is very easy to know when a team has quit and doesnt buy into the program. That in my opinion is a cancer that simply cant be fixed without getting a new coaching staff as it is the foundation of any program or company.

Off field issues are black and white.

Progress would be seen in the coaches putting a good game plan in place and making the required in game adjustments. NOT that they work but that if the players did their part they could have. Perfect example of this was the game losing play on the 15 yard face mask call. CB made a great D call. He had a perfect play called for that 3rd down and the kids executed it well sans the penalty. If there is no face mask call we win the game. Another great call was the fake 4th down punt. Obvious poor play calling was our 3rd and 4th down goal line calls. If i were AD i would really put emphasis on this aspect of coaching. The reason being that we will never have the best talent in the ACC but we will have good enough talent that with solid coaching and a few breaks we can be in almost any game.

So in the end and especially being a football guy im confident that Coyle will make the right call. I think that this "short leash" extension is the way to go given our current situation. Next year he needs to win simple end of story.

 

[CousCuse]

What if he ends up winning 6 or more this season ?

 

[kcsu]

What if he ends up winning 6 or more this season ?

I would stick with the same plan but might consider eliminating the lower tier payout and or making it a 3 year vs a 2 year keeping the lower payout in place which would accomplish the same thing financially but provide a better face to recruits as 3 years is more solid on the surface.

 

[phil77]

Why does everyone love HCSS? Week after week all I hear is excuse after excuse. It is time to cut the cord. The new AD has the perfect set up to bring in his guy. Year after year week after week the team finds ways to lose games that is the coaching. We have gotten to the point were we now have more talent than some of the teams we are losing too. I have no faith in HCSS to game plan and to make critical in fame decisions.

There is no easier time for the AD to get rid of HCSS. Another terrible season filled with coaching mistakes. AD has the excuse of being new and waiting his guy. We have young talent and new facilities that would make this an attractive spot for an up and coming coach.

I think HCSS is doing a decent job of bringing talent into the program but feel he isn't a good enough head coach to ever get the program over the hump. I think now we have young talent is the perfect time to move on.

 

[RoysRunts]

The Play calling on the 1 yard line and the rest of the 1st half was ridiculous I saw Coach Mac take over the play calls in his day in crunch time .The calls on the 1 (Shotgun formation) are foolish. Syracuse should have had 30 pts minimum in the 1st half
Good teams don't use trickery,Get a Fullback and power the ball inside the 1 or at least QB sneak

 

[MikeSU02]

I'm on board. Barring the university making a much larger financial commitment to put us in play for an elite staff, we need to commit to growing the program with this staff and hope they get better.

I like Shafer. Hope he keeps getting better.

 

[Crusty]

If Shafer. does not make staff changes, we will probably continue to have issues, regardless of talent, and he will be at great risk IMO.

Coyle will own this after next season and the odds of him making a change beome higher. I don't think ADMC will go any longer.

Versus FBS opponents we are dead last in the ACC for pass defense and next to last in scoring defense. We are 9th (and dropping) in rushing defense.

Not counting RI, we have been outscored 86 - 58 in the second half. Together with last year's injuries S&C has to be questioned.

O Line play has been poor.

What has to think long and hard about issues.

 

[alphaorange]

Great analysis and I agree 99%. The program is trending upward and I agree, the recruiting is getting better. I do think an infusion of talent at defensive tackle and cornerback is needed more than a new secondary and OLine coaching change.

Our young defensive tackles are really good...they are YOUNG

 

[Crusty]

Why do you say that? Just curious as We have not had any push and seem to have gotten pushed around a lot the past two weeks.

 

[PAcuse]

DT's stopped the run nicely in the 1st half. UVA adjusted and took the run to the outside and all hell broke loose. Pass rush is not the strong point of the defensive line at all they had all day to throw the ball.
I could see some changes with the coaching staff, but I do believe HCSS gets another year.

 

[SU94]

Tough loss. A real stinger. We had every significant advantage over UVa with one glaring exception: Mizzell (#4) was the best player on the field and we rarely, if ever stopped him.

If this were baseball, I'd feel like we hit 4 solo homers but lost, 5-4, thanks to a flurry of infield hits, bloopers and walks.

I agree with some of what I have read on this site the last few days, disagree with some other stuff. These opinions are mine and if you disagree, you are likely nuts/wrong, but I respect your thoughts as long as you are not trolling or have an obvious bias.

I don’t love what I saw in the coaching department yesterday, but I am not really ready to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

Personally, I just don’t think I am ready to start over again.
New coaching staff. New recruiting contacts/scope. New offense. New defense. Kids leaving, some of which could be upper-tier players. Everyone seems to assume the new HC is going to be better in every facet (staff hires, offense, defense, recruiting, public persona). And more often than not, they don’t hit home runs in all of these areas. Perhaps some, but not others.

Three years in, I see the Shafer administration doing well on offense, defense, special teams and recruiting. Continuity should bear fruit.

Offense
Unlike most here, I really like Lester’s offense. I think we’ve moved the ball better this year than any season dating to McNabb, with the exception of Nassib’s senior season. It’s not perfect, of course. How much of this success is predicated on the presence of Dungey? A lot I suppose, but I think you could say that about a good number of offenses around the nation. We should do better in the red zone. IMHO, we should stretch the field a bit more vertically. I wish we could run the ball between the tackles. To me, the offensive line is sub-par this season and this is hindering our offensive efforts. They’ve been poor despite being a veteran unit.

Defense
Terrible irony that for the last 5-6 years, our defense is all we’ve often had to hang our hat on. And now that we have a requisite offense and a young & dynamic quarterback (any multiple playmakers), our defense is really struggling. That said, my eyes tell me that I should believe that the prior 5 years can be the norm and this year is an aberration. We have some work to do, but we’ve seen Shafer and Bullough perform at a high level for years at a time.

Special Teams
Much much better this year. We all see that. Not perfect, but it’s been a while since we’ve been this strong in the kicking game. The return game, especially on punts, is above average for the first time since Qadry, Shelby Hill or Jim Turner were on campus (it been a long time). Plugging in a highly regarded kicker, who is currently redshirting, next year won’t hurt things.

Recruiting
It’s going well. Noticeable improvement it would seem, especially in the recruitment of the quarterback position. In the last 5 years, we’ve expanded our scope to the Midwest and Georgia a bit. After years of being nearly shut out, we are again solid in Florida. New Jersey is trending up, granted at a steady pace, and that is okay. And I think we are gaining traction in the Empire State. Having Steven Gregory on staff won’t hurt those efforts in NYC in the coming years. I’d also like to see us to make some hay in Pennsylvania in the coming years. Immediate focus for me would be on the offensive and defensive lines.

Overall
Yesterday was not that good. We needed one stop and had about 4-5 chances to achieve it. Calls inside the 2-yard line were iffy at best. I've seen Shafer grow this year. I've seen him go for it on 4th-and-1 multiple times (yesterday was a bad decision on the risk/reward scale). I've seen fake kicks work a vast majority of the time. I've seen better, but not flawless, clock management.

What I do want to see Shafer and Co. do it go for the jugular. Play to win (cliche). I know this sounds silly, but I feel yesterday, he relished the opportunity to win the game by 7 points or less. Well, I think we had so much going for us that we could have won that game by 10-14 points. Yes, run-run-pass when we had the ball in the 4th quarter. But also, when we were up 7 (late in the 3rd Q) and had the ball first-and-goal on the 9 yard line. Run-run-pass = Field goal. Go for the win Coach. Coach or show these kids how to win, not how to survive. (disclaimer: sometimes run-run-pass works, but I feel like this becomes quite difficult inside the 10 yard line).

Overall
I have no allegiance to Shafer in any way. I do like him enough and respect what he represents, but I don’t love him and am not married to keeping him. I do have a lot a faith in Coyle, so if he does pull the plug, I believe he’ll make a good hire. But if he asked me today, I’d tell him to keep Shafer because I like much of what I am seeing.

 

[GoSU96]

He should get next year.

This season was always 12 scrimmages.

My problem is with the delusionals who couldn't/can't see where this team is right now.

Without a major improvement this team was never going to win 6 games and they have gotten worse in the easier half of the schedule.

Maybe it clicks but my guess they end the year in sub 100 in offense, more likely sub 110, and in the 70's on defense.

It's the formula for a 3 win season.

Stop playing to win and "4th quarter games" and get some reps. Run you offense and get kids reps on defense.

It might be a youth movement season but the future in not now, it's next year.

 

[Forza Azzurri]

The Play calling on the 1 yard line

I agree that that 4th down call was not good.

and the rest of the 1st half was ridiculous

We ran 39 plays. All 39 play calls were ridiculous? That is what your post is implying.

Good teams don't use trickery

Did you watch the LSU-Florida game last night? Or is it your contention that LSU is not a good team?

 

[Crusty]

Tough loss. A real stinger. We had every significant advantage over UVa with one glaring exception: Mizzell (#4) was the best player on the field and we rarely, if ever stopped him.

If this were baseball, I'd feel like we hit 4 solo homers but lost, 5-4, thanks to a flurry of infield hits, bloopers and walks.

I agree with some of what I have read on this site the last few days, disagree with some other stuff. These opinions are mine and if you disagree, you are likely nuts/wrong, but I respect your thoughts as long as you are not trolling or have an obvious bias.

I don’t love what I saw in the coaching department yesterday, but I am not really ready to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

Personally, I just don’t think I am ready to start over again.
New coaching staff. New recruiting contacts/scope. New offense. New defense. Kids leaving, some of which could be upper-tier players. Everyone seems to assume the new HC is going to be better in every facet (staff hires, offense, defense, recruiting, public persona). And more often than not, they don’t hit home runs in all of these areas. Perhaps some, but not others.

Three years in, I see the Shafer administration doing well on offense, defense, special teams and recruiting. Continuity should bear fruit.

Offense
Unlike most here, I really like Lester’s offense. I think we’ve moved the ball better this year than any season dating to McNabb, with the exception of Nassib’s senior season. It’s not perfect, of course. How much of this success is predicated on the presence of Dungey? A lot I suppose, but I think you could say that about a good number of offenses around the nation. We should do better in the red zone. IMHO, we should stretch the field a bit more vertically. I wish we could run the ball between the tackles. To me, the offensive line is sub-par this season and this is hindering our offensive efforts. They’ve been poor despite being a veteran unit.

Defense
Terrible irony that for the last 5-6 years, our defense is all we’ve often had to hang our hat on. And now that we have a requisite offense and a young & dynamic quarterback (any multiple playmakers), our defense is really struggling. That said, my eyes tell me that I should believe that the prior 5 years can be the norm and this year is an aberration. We have some work to do, but we’ve seen Shafer and Bullough perform at a high level for years at a time.

Special Teams
Much much better this year. We all see that. Not perfect, but it’s been a while since we’ve been this strong in the kicking game. The return game, especially on punts, is above average for the first time since Qadry, Shelby Hill or Jim Turner were on campus (it been a long time). Plugging in a highly regarded kicker, who is currently redshirting, next year won’t hurt things.

Recruiting
It’s going well. Noticeable improvement it would seem, especially in the recruitment of the quarterback position. In the last 5 years, we’ve expanded our scope to the Midwest and Georgia a bit. After years of being nearly shut out, we are again solid in Florida. New Jersey is trending up, granted at a steady pace, and that is okay. And I think we are gaining traction in the Empire State. Having Steven Gregory on staff won’t hurt those efforts in NYC in the coming years. I’d also like to see us to make some hay in Pennsylvania in the coming years. Immediate focus for me would be on the offensive and defensive lines.

Overall
Yesterday was not that good. We needed one stop and had about 4-5 chances to achieve it. Calls inside the 2-yard line were iffy at best. I've seen Shafer grow this year. I've seen him go for it on 4th-and-1 multiple times (yesterday was a bad decision on the risk/reward scale). I've seen fake kicks work a vast majority of the time. I've seen better, but not flawless, clock management.

What I do want to see Shafer and Co. do it go for the jugular. Play to win (cliche). I know this sounds silly, but I feel yesterday, he relished the opportunity to win the game by 7 points or less. Well, I think we had so much going for us that we could have won that game by 10-14 points. Yes, run-run-pass when we had the ball in the 4th quarter. But also, when we were up 7 (late in the 3rd Q) and had the ball first-and-goal on the 9 yard line. Run-run-pass = Field goal. Go for the win Coach. Coach or show these kids how to win, not how to survive. (disclaimer: sometimes run-run-pass works, but I feel like this becomes quite difficult inside the 10 yard line).

Overall
I have no allegiance to Shafer in any way. I do like him enough and respect what he represents, but I don’t love him and am not married to keeping him. I do have a lot a faith in Coyle, so if he does pull the plug, I believe he’ll make a good hire. But if he asked me today, I’d tell him to keep Shafer because I like much of what I am seeing.

Agree with most of your post, but I think we need to make secondary the #1 recruiting priority. As a matter of fact we need to find a couple of JUCOs to fill the gap next year.

 

[djorange1989]

Agree with most of your post, but I think we need to make secondary the #1 recruiting priority. As a matter of fact we need to find a couple of JUCOs to fill the gap next year.

Agree 100%. We have to bring in some Juco help for the secondary. not enough depth or talent there that can contribute

 

[CuseOnly]

If Shafer. does not make staff changes, we will probably continue to have issues, regardless of talent, and he will be at great risk IMO.

Coyle will own this after next season and the odds of him making a change beome higher. I don't think ADMC will go any longer.

Versus FBS opponents we are dead last in the ACC for pass defense and next to last in scoring defense. We are 9th (and dropping) in rushing defense.

Not counting RI, we have been outscored 86 - 58 in the second half. Together with last year's injuries S&C has to be questioned.

O Line play has been poor.

What has to think long and hard about issues.

You can't blame the S&C coach for starting Freshman that have only been on campus a short time. Next year, yes you can throw some blame on him.

Not sure you can blame last years injuries on Hicks but not say he did a great job this year because there are no injuries.

 

[SaltineWarrior]

If im Coyle i would keep Shafer under the following provision.

* The team doesnt quit on him

* The team regardless of W/L continues to make progress.

* Recruiting continues to trend upward and he retains his key recruits in the event we continue to lose this year

* He agrees to review his staff and make adjustments that might be warranted such as the secondary and Oline

* There are no major off field issues.

If the above is met i would provide him with a 2 year extension. The extension would have a low and high end buy out. If he was let go with a less than 5 win season going forward the buyout would be the lower number. 6 wins or greater would earn the higher amount.

At this point with the injuries of last year, Lester being new and showing promise, More youth playing significant roles than at anytime in the history of SU Football, recruiting trending up i believe that unless we have the money to hire a true name coach and staff that we would be making a huge mistake to fire him after this year. The program is heading in the right direction regardless of the W/L results. To fire Shafer now could set us back many years. Next year we will still be very young but we will have the best depth at many key positions that we have had in years. This years recruiting class looks very strong and wih them in the fold combined with this years team growing bigger stronger faster and smarter coupled with another year in the Lester system we should be poised to do very well. At that point it the excuses will no longer exist and Coyle can make a true decision based on HCSS and his staff ability to coach.

One more years guys. That is the right call at this point.

I generally agree with giving anyone 5 year minimum, unless the environment becomes toxic (I think that is what happened around here in 2008). Therefore by default, Shafer should be OK for a while, but if I was Coyle I would want to hear a few points about adjustments. Your points above are good, but I would add another point about our offensive philosophy. Let me explain...

Say what you want about Marrone, but he at least "said" he knew where we could recruit and what type of athlete we could expect on the hill. Whether he delivered on that is not the point; what matters is he is right. SU will not bring in an entire group of offensive linemen that would be confused with Auburn or Georgia. SU can however get the type of linemen that otherwise go to Pitt, BC and even that school down in central PA. Remember what a fullback looks like? How about a blocking TE?

This offense is still a work in progress but getting the QB under center, playing REAL smash-mouth football and getting the right lineman in place are definitely worth considering.

Just one idiots opinion...

 

[TheCusian]

Why does everyone love HCSS? Week after week all I hear is excuse after excuse. It is time to cut the cord. The new AD has the perfect set up to bring in his guy. Year after year week after week the team finds ways to lose games that is the coaching. We have gotten to the point were we now have more talent than some of the teams we are losing too. I have no faith in HCSS to game plan and to make critical in fame decisions. There is no easier time for the AD to get rid of HCSS. Another terrible season filled with coaching mistakes. AD has the excuse of being new and waiting his guy. We have young talent and new facilities that would make this an attractive spot for an up and coming coach. I think HCSS is doing a decent job of bringing talent into the program but feel he isn't a good enough head coach to ever get the program over the hump. I think now we have young talent is the perfect time to move on.

Anytime I hear people use the word "excuse" I know they are not in the business of fair evaluation. And since Coyle is...

 

[TheCusian]

He should get next year. This season was always 12 scrimmages. My problem is with the delusionals who couldn't/can't see where this team is right now. Without a major improvement this team was never going to win 6 games and they have gotten worse in the easier half of the schedule. Maybe it clicks but my guess they end the year in sub 100 in offense, more likely sub 110, and in the 70's on defense. It's the formula for a 3 win season. Stop playing to win and "4th quarter games" and get some reps. Run you offense and get kids reps on defense. It might be a youth movement season but the future in not now, it's next year.

Scoring offense or total offense? I've see people use either depending on what argument they are making.

Dungey leads the ACC in passer rating. We need more plays and more throwing, less option.

We've been in every game we've played in the 4th Q.

Where we agree is that we need the kids to continue to grow. Learn from losses and get better. Set the foundation - don't lose the kids by playing tight.

 

[GoSU96]

Scoring offense or total offense? I've see people use either depending on what argument they are making.

Dungey leads the ACC in passer rating. We need more plays and more throwing, less option.

We've been in every game we've played in the 4th Q.

Where we agree is that we need the kids to continue to grow. Learn from losses and get better. Set the foundation - don't lose the kids by playing tight.

Total offense, yards.

They have more offensive TD's than the team did all of last year, which is obviously better, but in the scheme of things, BFD, because last years 18 TD's were the third worst in D-1, better than only by Wake and SMU.

 

[Willy75]

The title of this thread seems to assume that there would be some competition for Shafer's services, which is laughable. It would be professional malpractice for Coyle to give him any contract extension.