Wildhack is on the Clock

[RF2044]

Yeah, and I did it at a high level for a long time. Maybe you are lucky and not have to answer to CEO's and boards about things you know are wrong. Congrats and good for you if that is the case. It isn't always the case in corporate America. And you can find yourself in impossible positions.

Dash, I guess I don't get what you're implying. You and I have an off-board relationship to a degree, I think you know about my company, my background (to done degree). You might also know that I've presented to multiple boards of directors just in the last quarter.

I deal with c-suite executives on a continual basis. There have been times I've been brought in from a risk management perspective to weigh in on hiring or firing some of those people. Sometimes difficult decisions have to be made.

I also completely acknowledge the boeheim was an institution, which made things even more difficult. And he put the university in a difficult position that got worse and reverse over time. It sucked. The question was whether a clean break was warranted, to get the pain over and rip the bandaid off, then move on. Versus dragging out.

Edit -- Dasher, I apologize for calling you out. As you know you're one of my favorite posters on the board, we have a long history, I'm just frustrated. Is definitely not directed at you my man.

 

[FloridaCuse]

I mean not really. Happens all the time. Pasqualoni was the LB coach.

they should’ve cleaned house and went outside. BUT, if not, they should’ve listened to the hall of fame coach who built the program and knew stuff.

Think about it

 

[hoopsupstate]

Count me in. But how do you do that?

When’s the next time they meet? CTO probably knows.

 

[dasher]

This is why I blame JB, held on too long and now we are in a crappy situation. There were no good solutions when he was let go, no good choices. This isn’t unusual, the best CEO’s know when to step down, the most selfish stay on. Hopefully JW structured a low buyout in Reds contract

What we can blame JW for is his decision to stay in house. I and others said it at the time. But you are right. Jb made things tough the whole way.

 

[djcon57]

I mean not really. Happens all the time. Pasqualoni was the LB coach.

they should’ve cleaned house and went outside. BUT, if not, they should’ve listened to the hall of fame coach who built the program and knew stuff.

Why didn’t any other P5 program hire GMac? Clearly he was open to leave last year. Yet only Siena? Does the 80 year old HOF coach know more than every AD in the country? What experience did Jim have in hiring head coaches?

 

[oldpinepoint]

Please stop with this. This is not the hill to die on. Every day he stayed beyond 2016, led us to where we are now. Still want to be playing 6 guys and playing 2-3 zone?

100% not sure why people don’t see this. Stayed on way too long. Should have left clean and not demanded to name his successor

 

[phil77]

JB - GMac - Red neither should be the head coach of the Syracuse Men's Basketball team.

 

[oldpinepoint]

What we can blame JW for is his decision to stay in house. I and others said it at the time. But you are right. Jb made things tough the whole way.

I agree,’you know much more than I, but was it really an option to hire outside? Our out was the second NCAA sanction, should have cleaned house and nobody would have blamed SU for doing that

 

[dasher]

Yeah sure, I guess I don't get what you're implying. You and I have an off-board relationship to a degree, I think you know about my company, you might also know that I've presented to multiple boards of directors just in the last quarter.

I deal with c-suite executives on a continual basis. There have been times I've been brought in from a risk management perspective to weigh in on hiring or firing some of those people. Sometimes difficult decisions have to be made.

I also completely acknowledge the bayheim wasn't institution, and he put the university in a difficult position that got worse and reverse over time. It sucked. The question was whether a clean break was warranted, to get the pain over and rip the bandaid off, then move on. Versus dragging out.

I wasn't disagreeing with you at all about whether we should have gone outside. We should have. We both said it at the time. But getting rid of JB was hard to do for a lot of reasons and I think JW might have lost his job if he tried any sooner than he did. The majority of our situation is JB's fault. The rest lie with the Board and JW. I wish I knew how this ended. And when.

 

[FloridaCuse]

I wasn't disagreeing with you at all about whether we should have gone outside. We should have. We both said it at the time. But getting rid of JB was hard to do for a lot of reasons and I think JW might have lost his job if he tried any sooner than he did. The majority of our situation is JB's fault. The rest lie with the Board and JW. I wish I knew how this ended. And when.

When JW did it was it his decision or was he told to do it? Also, we know how it's going to end -- we'll get a new coach and the program will get better. We just don't know when.

 

[RF2044]

I wasn't disagreeing with you at all about whether we should have gone outside. We should have. We both said it at the time. But getting rid of JB was hard to do for a lot of reasons and I think JW might have lost his job if he tried any sooner than he did. The majority of our situation is JB's fault. The rest lie with the Board and JW. I wish I knew how this ended. And when.

See above: made an edit

 

[hoopsupstate]

SU had the perfect reason to kick JB down the road after the second NCAA violations. They didn’t need to come up with a three year plan. He should have been gone immediately. What bigger reason did they need when they lost 101 games and embarrassed the University a second time. He knowingly broke rules and tried to justify it. As fans, many of us condoned it too. Hop was also implicated and yet they were going to make him the coach in waiting. How bizarre is that?

 

[dasher]

Dash, I guess I don't get what you're implying. You and I have an off-board relationship to a degree, I think you know about my company, my background (to done degree). You might also know that I've presented to multiple boards of directors just in the last quarter.

I deal with c-suite executives on a continual basis. There have been times I've been brought in from a risk management perspective to weigh in on hiring or firing some of those people. Sometimes difficult decisions have to be made.

I also completely acknowledge the boeheim was an institution, which made things even more difficult. And he put the university in a difficult position that got worse and reverse over time. It sucked. The question was whether a clean break was warranted, to get the pain over and rip the bandaid off, then move on. Versus dragging out.

Edit -- Dasher, I apologize for calling you out. As you know you're one of my favorite posters on the board, we have a long history, I'm just frustrated. Is definitely not directed at you my man.

RF, same. And I wasn't upset at all. All is good. Except our team

 

[Newhouser]

Dashers point was that he made the only decision he could. The administration and BOT had blocked a change previously and were only going to allow an internal hire if JB was forced out. There was no national search done because one wasn't going to be allowed, full stop.

I don't get what's hard for people on this. It was going to be internal which meant Red for a variety of reasons.
Now the way is paved to do a better search.

 

[RF2044]

I don't get what's hard for people on this. It was going to be internal which meant Red for a variety of reasons.
Now the way is paved to do a better search.

Then, the AD -- who I hold in relatively high esteem -- didn't do his job.

 

[AZOrange]

SU had the perfect reason to kick JB down the road after the second NCAA violations. They didn’t need to come up with a three year plan. He should have been gone immediately. What bigger reason did they need when they lost 101 games and embarrassed the University a second time. He knowingly broke rules and tried to justify it. As fans, many of us condoned it too. Hop was also implicated and yet they were going to make him the coach in waiting. How bizarre is that?

We were really really good those years

 

[PhatOrange]

right again? Like what was the first time? When he reneged on his time to leave? That time. The school better not listen to him about much of anything these days. He is the #1 reason we are in the situation we are in. His refusal to leave and not work the job the way it has to be worked. Turning the program in to Boeheim and sons instead of Syracuse University.

Stop. Your disdain for JB is clouding your rational thoughts. putting aside the fact that JAB built the program and became a hall of famer because of it, it’s normal in life for guys not to want to hang it up.

If you want to blame him for not retiring earlier I think that’s dumb. (The coach in waiting stinks too by the way)….But fact is, JB had bosses and they could’ve pulled the trigger, they didn’t. Their lack of a spine is the #1 reason we are in this. Why do they lack spine? Optics….lol, that’s such a Syracuse thing. They’re going to make the same mistake now to, optics, when it’s clear as day Autry can’t coach. Are you still going to blame JB that they can’t fire Red? (Or is Melo now the guy holding Syracuse hostage?.)

 

[MikeSU02]

SU had the perfect reason to kick JB down the road after the second NCAA violations. They didn’t need to come up with a three year plan. He should have been gone immediately. What bigger reason did they need when they lost 101 games and embarrassed the University a second time. He knowingly broke rules and tried to justify it. As fans, many of us condoned it too. Hop was also implicated and yet they were going to make him the coach in waiting. How bizarre is that?

This is what is wild to me. JB got hit 2x.

No matter what life is like now in the Wild West of cbb, JB still got nabbed twice back then. Heck, in the 80s we were “UNLV East” in some quarters.

I’ve posted I want them to get his wins back, but the fact that he got to stay after the second time is kind of wild.

The Boeheim and friends AAU team into the hiring of Red has just been such a den of mayhem and losing.

It’s so unfortunate that this program is where it is. There used to be a time when I would say “at least I have JB to make my sports life not totally suck”. God, I’d kill for those days again for this program.

But to be clear: 2x probation, the absurdity of the teams at the end of JB’s tenure and then the hiring of Red is just a cascade of poor decisions with some momentary peaks.

 

[FloridaCuse]

Stop. Your disdain for JB is clouding your rational thoughts. putting aside the fact that JAB built the program and became a hall of famer because of it, it’s normal in life for guys not to want to hang it up.

If you want to blame him for not retiring earlier I think that’s dumb. (The coach in waiting stinks too by the way)….But fact is, JB had bosses and they could’ve pulled the trigger, they didn’t. Their lack of a spine is the #1 reason we are in this. Why do they lack spine? Optics….lol, that’s such a Syracuse thing. They’re going to make the same mistake now to, optics, when it’s clear as day Autry can’t coach. Are you still going to blame JB that they can’t fire Red? (Or is Melo now the guy holding Syracuse hostage?.)

Hope not. Shame on us if he is.

 

[DilemaCuse]

It's mid January and we have more MCDONALD'S AAs in the starting lineup than P5 or conference wins...
Think about that.
You got to have coaching malpractice to do that or put together the worst possible roster outside of those 2.

 

[PhatOrange]

Why didn’t any other P5 program hire GMac? Clearly he was open to leave last year. Yet only Siena? Does the 80 year old HOF coach know more than every AD in the country? What experience did Jim have in hiring head coaches?

well if I were an AD of a P5 program I wouldn’t have looked at him either because he had no head coaching experience. It’s not the be all end all but it’s at the top of the list.

Siena is the type of program where a guy starts out and cuts his teeth.

JB has no experience as AD hiring any head coaches (assistants yes), but coaches typically know who have the chops of the people underneath them. IMO if youre hiring from within and the program will continue to run itself you need the best coach. If you blow it up and hire outside you need the best CEO.

 

[kingtidge]

To me the biggest issue, even bigger than the ability of a guy on staff, was the idea of a continuity hire when we were coming off the worst basketball of JB's career.

You make a continuity hire when you're good, or at least trending up.

Making a continuity hire when we were bad didn't make basketball sense. And the people that pointed to Duke and UNC doing it seemed to fail to realize that their programs were in much different shape than ours.

If the goal of the continuity hire was to continue the trajectory we were on, I guess, mission accomplished?

^^ This is a good post

 

[PhatOrange]

We would have more wins because JBs an excellent coach but still be staring at 4 years of no tourney. This is the argument people use about coach P. The issue wasn't that he was let go its that the subsequent hire was worse. In this case the school bumbled it completely and tied the ADs hands.

I agree 100%.

The school has historically bungled these things. That we can count on.

 

[Cuseball]

Stop. Your disdain for JB is clouding your rational thoughts. putting aside the fact that JAB built the program and became a hall of famer because of it, it’s normal in life for guys not to want to hang it up.

If you want to blame him for not retiring earlier I think that’s dumb. (The coach in waiting stinks too by the way)….But fact is, JB had bosses and they could’ve pulled the trigger, they didn’t. Their lack of a spine is the #1 reason we are in this. Why do they lack spine? Optics….lol, that’s such a Syracuse thing. They’re going to make the same mistake now to, optics, when it’s clear as day Autry can’t coach. Are you still going to blame JB that they can’t fire Red? (Or is Melo now the guy holding Syracuse hostage?.)

It’s kind of sad we keep blaming JB. This is all Autry. He has been a complete failure. Stop the scapegoating and let’s put the blame where it lays.

 

[UpstateSM]

I wasn't disagreeing with you at all about whether we should have gone outside. We should have. We both said it at the time. But getting rid of JB was hard to do for a lot of reasons and I think JW might have lost his job if he tried any sooner than he did. The majority of our situation is JB's fault. The rest lie with the Board and JW. I wish I knew how this ended. And when.

I learned this lesson recently with the school I went to but applies here: from the AD's perspective, the most important part of the job is to keep the job. And that can very easily lead to decisions that are far from the best interests of the fans and alums.

I've been hard on ours but it's much easier to understand some decisions now that I appreciate that viewpoint. I try to keep an open mind at my young age.