Will Covid force Notre Dame to join ACC as a full member? | Page 3 | Syracusefan.com

Will Covid force Notre Dame to join ACC as a full member?

Nope. He's a colonel (pips on his epaulets). Plus, it's a different skit than the one I was thinking of. This is closer, but not the exact one.

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I would love Notre Dame go and join Ohio State and Michigan’s conference.
They would get paid and lose their identity.

It would be worth it to just watch that.

Notre Dame administration doesn’t forget the anti-Catholic sentiments and racism they got from Michigan.

I got ND family. I know the stuff.

Notre Dame in 1999 from London told the Big Ten ask us for membership just to turn them down.

Notre Dame keeps their own money. I never said it was the most money they could get.

The idea a conference with a TV deal with one partner would help a nonmember with a TV deal with another network is bad business. You know that as a lawyer.

It’s stupid.

If Notre Dame said we will play 6 ACC teams per year up from 5 currently which is what my source is telling me the ACC wants to get out this then its a win for both sides.


Sorry, but agreeing to something you don't want at all for perpetuity (an extra ACC game per year) because of a one year scheduling problem is also bad business to this lawyer.

Not a win for ND, at all, certainly not in the long run.
 
ND makes less TV/conference payout money than just about any P5 school. Wake Forest makes as much or more.

ND makes about $22 million from NBC, $6.8 million from ESPN/ACC, and a small amount from NBC Sports for home hockey games. That is about $30 million, total.

Most ACC schools make that much or more. At best, it is a wash.

So, there is no monetary "concession" for ND to make here. Nothing to share.

For comparison, Purdue as a Big Ten member makes about $35 million a year more from TV/conference payouts than ND does.

If forced into a football conference against its will by a Covid related ultimatum, ND would do much better to consider the Big Ten and make an extra $35 million a year doing it (while holding its nose).

For that amount between now and 2036, it may be worth challenging a GOR that doesn't cover ND football anyway.

How much is $35 million x 16 years?
Nice to have you on board, I had said would love to get to 20 teams, adding Texas, Notre Dame, Oklahoma, Oklahoma St, Baylor, West Virginia. Then go to 4 pods of 5. Notre Dame could then have Texas as a crossover game every year.
 
Sorry, but agreeing to something you don't want at all for perpetuity (an extra ACC game per year) because of a one year scheduling problem is also bad business to this lawyer.

Not a win for ND, at all, certainly not in the long run.
Some partner Notre Dame is with that mindset.
 
E]
I would love Notre Dame go and join Ohio State and Michigan’s conference.
They would get paid and lose their identity.

It would be worth it to just watch that.

Notre Dame administration doesn’t forget the anti-Catholic sentiments and racism they got from Michigan.

I got ND family. I know the stuff.

Notre Dame in 1999 from London told the Big Ten ask us for membership just to turn them down.

Notre Dame keeps their own money. I never said it was the most money they could get.

The idea a conference with a TV deal with one partner would help a nonmember with a TV deal with another network is bad business. You know that as a lawyer.

It’s stupid.

If Notre Dame said we will play 6 ACC teams per year up from 5 currently which is what my source is telling me the ACC wants to get out this then its a win for both sides.


As for the Big Ten, you know my hatred for them and you understand the reasons.

But, if the ACC is dumb enough to strong arm ND, give them an ultimatum and try to force ND football into a a conference, then all bets are off and making that much more money is on the table.

As the saying goes: "We are all whores, the only difference is the price."

(Does everyone advocating a Covid ultimatum discount the possibility that ND would instead see Covid, the ultimatum and the bigger payouts as reasons to join the Big Ten in full, which would set off a cascading domino effect that may tear apart the ACC?)
 
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Some partner Notre Dame is with that mindset.


If you did not want any more beets at all, or if you only needed a few more beets for one year, then buying "one more beet every year forever" is not a good deal from your perspective.

That is everyone's mindset.
 
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If you did not want any more beets at all, then buying "only one more beet" is not a good deal from your perspective.

That is everyone's mindset.

Yeah, but - if you don’t want any more beets (I prefer the autocorrect “beers” BTW! ;) ), then you could be forced to choose between:

one more beet,
or
your beet provider telling you to piss off, and go get all of your beets elsewhere.

And currently, none of the other farmers have ANY beets to sell you.

Since you’re Irish, I’d think potatoes would be the better widget than beets.

And it’s a bad idea to piss off your potato farmer in the midst of a potato famine.
 
If you did not want any more beets at all, or if you only needed a few more beets for one year, then buying "one more beet every year forever" is not a good deal from your perspective.

That is everyone's mindset.
Conferences have unique obligations due to the various needs of their members. ND has their own selfish needs, but they lose some flexibility by not having a conference. They may not be able to set the dinner table for themselves the way they want.
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E]



As for the Big Ten, you know my hatred for them and you understand the reasons.

But, if the ACC is dumb enough to strong arm ND, give them an ultimatum and try to force ND football into a a conference, then all bets are off and making that much more money is on the table.

As the saying goes: "We are all whores, the only difference is the price."

(Does everyone advocating a Covid ultimatum discount the possibility that ND would instead see Covid, the ultimatum and the biger payouts as reasons to join the Big Ten in full, which would set off a cascading domino effect that may tear apart the ACC?)
They aren’t strong arming though.
Using leverage to get better terms is just good business.
I am not saying to ask for the moon but getting more favorable terms ie an extra game each year seems pretty good negotiating.
 
They aren’t strong arming though.
Using leverage to get better terms is just good business.
I am not saying to ask for the moon but getting more favorable terms ie an extra game each year seems pretty good negotiating.

Saying no to that since it involves a "benefit" only for a season that won't happen seems to be better negotiating, in my view.
 
Yeah, but - if you don’t want any more beets (I prefer the autocorrect “beers” BTW! ;) ), then you could be forced to choose between:

one more beet,
or
your beet provider telling you to piss off, and go get all of your beets elsewhere.

And currently, none of the other farmers have ANY beets to sell you.

Since you’re Irish, I’d think potatoes would be the better widget than beets.

And it’s a bad idea to piss off your potato farmer in the midst of a potato famine.

See my edited Big Ten post above for this.

As for Potato Famine, that just drove the Irish elsewhere to take over another country. :)
 
Nice to have you on board, I had said would love to get to 20 teams, adding Texas, Notre Dame, Oklahoma, Oklahoma St, Baylor, West Virginia. Then go to 4 pods of 5. Notre Dame could then have Texas as a crossover game every year.
Absolutely no to Baylor and West Virginia.
 
E]

(Does everyone advocating a Covid ultimatum discount the possibility that ND would instead see Covid, the ultimatum and the bigger payouts as reasons to join the Big Ten in full, which would set off a cascading domino effect that may tear apart the ACC?)

How would “losing” a NON-MEMBER for football, tear apart the ACC?:rolleyes:

ND hasn’t been a pseudo-member for all that long as it is.

And having an even # of teams, all of whom are 100% members across the board, isn’t exactly a horrible fallback position.

“Football drives the bus” - yet, ND football isn’t actually even ON the ACC bus.
Even if you do hop 5-6 rides every Fall.
 
How would “losing” a NON-MEMBER for football, tear apart the ACC?:rolleyes:

ND hasn’t been a pseudo-member for all that long as it is.

And having an even # of teams, all of whom are 100% members across the board, isn’t exactly a horrible fallback position.

“Football drives the bus” - yet, ND football isn’t actually even ON the ACC bus.
Even if you do hop 5-6 rides every Fall.

The Big Ten and the SEC may decide to grab other schools if ND busts the ACC GOR.

(College conference GOR's have never been tested in the courts)

You do not think that Notre Dame joining the Big Ten in full will cause any ripples or aftershocks in the conference realignment world? Okay....

I am just saying that the "ultimatum" guys should consider the possible effects of the Law of Unintended Consequences, particularly with this much money involved and especially with an influential and powerful entity in the college football world as ND.

Its a dumb idea all around.
 
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If you believe this and I don’t know if you do Notre Dame would start their own network and keep all the money for themselves. Just like Texas and Longhorn Network.

Like they do with their football program and NBC Sports.

Notre Dame football I will grant is a strong brand.

Notre Dame basketball isn’t as big as Xavier basketball.

They aren’t why Disney used its leverage to get the ACC Network on cable.

A couple of Notre Dams football games aren’t going to seal the deal for the ACC Network.

They are parasites who take advantage of weak conferences for their own benefit.

The 14 ACC schools agreed to the deal because they get some value but Notre Dame only cares about Notre Dame.

The ACC survives because of ESPN and Disney backing them. Not because of Notre Dame parking its non-football programs in the conference.

Notre Dame could have parked into Olympic sports with the Big East Catholic schools they didn’t want that.

They wanted the best P5 conference they could get. The ACC and Big XII talked with them. The ACC got the deal done and got 5 annual football games.

If Notre Dame basketball left the ACC tomorrow it wouldn’t hurt the conference one iota. Notre Dame wants nothing to do with the Big Ten full membership.

If the ACC had real leadership they would actually use the leverage they currently have if Notre Dame wants to play college football this year.
ND basketball brand is FAR greater then Xavier's. They might not be as good of a program, but nationally the brand is far superior.
 
The Big Ten and the SEC may decide to grab other schools if ND busts the ACC GOR.

(College conference GOR's have never been tested in the courts)

You do not think that Notre Dame joining the Big Ten in full will cause any ripples or aftershocks in the conference realignment world? Okay...

ND isn’t joining the B1G.

You know this.
I know this.
I’m pretty sure everybody in the ACC offices know this.

ND will do 1 of 2 things:
1 - remain independent.
2 - join the ACC.

The only reason #2 is a remote possibility, is due to all of the non-football sports already being ACC, and football playing 5/6 games annually vs the ACC.

All that said, it’ll remain 1 for the foreseeable future.

ND needs to get screwed out of a few more Playoff opportunities via not being in a conference, before they will seriously entertain joining one.

So, while the ACC does indeed have some leverage at the moment, it’s probably not enough to sway the decision makers at ND.

It is only when football gets shafted, that you’ll consider anything else.
 
The Big Ten and the SEC may decide to grab other schools if ND busts the ACC GOR.

(College conference GOR's have never been tested in the courts)

You do not think that Notre Dame joining the Big Ten in full will cause any ripples or aftershocks in the conference realignment world? Okay...
North Carolina and Virginia already rebuked the Big Ten.

The Big Ten only was interested State flagships.

UNC isn’t going to the SEC unless the ACC was nuked and that won’t happen because of Notre Dame.

The Big Ten wants ND and whatever elite school they can get.

If the ACC played hard ball with Notre Dame it causes the Big XII and ACC to battle.

Clemson and Florida State being locked out of the SEC keeps the ACC football fine.
North Carolina wouldn’t leave being a king to be a hired gun.
 
ND isn’t joining the B1G.

You know this.
I know this.
I’m pretty sure everybody in the ACC offices know this.

ND will do 1 of 2 things:
1 - remain independent.
2 - join the ACC.

The only reason #2 is a remote possibility, is due to all of the non-football sports already being ACC, and football playing 5/6 games annually vs the ACC.

All that said, it’ll remain 1 for the foreseeable future.

ND needs to get screwed out of a few more Playoff opportunities via not being in a conference, before they will seriously entertain joining one.

So, while the ACC does indeed have some leverage at the moment, it’s probably not enough to sway the decision makers at ND.

It is only when football gets shafted, that you’ll consider anything else.
Ding ding.
Let them join the Big Ten. The Notre Dame threat is laughable.
They would lose their identity and become Penn State who hates the Big Ten office because of Michigan and Ohio State.

Notre Dame won’t join the Big Ten. It’s like the Cold War. Notre Dame and Big Ten on opposite sides each want the status quo as it relates to ND being independent or in the Big Ten.

England would have conquered Ireland when Notre Dame joins the Big Ten. Trust me I hear this chit from my ND family.
 
ND isn’t joining the B1G.

You know this.
I know this.
I’m pretty sure everybody in the ACC offices know this.

ND will do 1 of 2 things:
1 - remain independent.
2 - join the ACC.

The only reason #2 is a remote possibility, is due to all of the non-football sports already being ACC, and football playing 5/6 games annually vs the ACC.

All that said, it’ll remain 1 for the foreseeable future.

ND needs to get screwed out of a few more Playoff opportunities via not being in a conference, before they will seriously entertain joining one.

So, while the ACC does indeed have some leverage at the moment, it’s probably not enough to sway the decision makers at ND.

It is only when football gets shafted, that you’ll consider anything else.



My Big Ten discussion (I hate them with a white hot passion, by the way) is based on the following assumptions from this thread:

1) Covid forces all P5 conferences to play only conference games in 2020;

2) The ACC uses this to present a "join in full or suffer in 2020" ultimatum;

3) Covid and the ACC ultimatum forces ND to seriously re-consider its entire situation.

If these things force ND football into joining a conference, it would be foolish not to look at making over a half a billion or so extra dollars over 15 years in the process, GOR be damned.

Does anyone seriously doubt this? Does anyone think that ND will not consider this half a billion dollars in its calculus?

Some of you think that ND is "greedy" when it makes less than everyone else.

What do you think that ND might do when presented with a chance to make a half a billion more?

Don't just assume that ND will meekly say "OK, you got me." and just join the ACC in full without exploring something unexpected. It has done it before (NBC deal, Big East deal, ACC deal).

Did anyone see those deals coming?

I mean, if ND is forced to surrender to a conference, it may as well get paid as much as it can for its surrender.

I think that all bets are off if the ACC forces ND into this situation under these circumstances.

One of the main reasons that ND is in the ACC is that the latter did not require football. Remove that...and force ND football into a conference, you can be sure that money will talk in that scenario.

Once things like this start, one never knows how things end up. That is my only point and is based on 1-3 above.

I don't think that I am discussing anything outrageous or controversial here.
 
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My Big Ten discussion (I hate them with a white hot passion, by the way) is based on the following assumptions from this thread:

1) Covid forces all P5 conferences to play only conference games in 2020;

2) The ACC uses this to present a "join in full or suffer in 2020" ultimatum;

3) Covid and the ACC ultimatum forces ND to seriously re-consider its entire situation.

If these things force ND football into joining a conference, it would be foolish not to look at making over a half a billion or so extra dollars over 15 years in the process, GOR be damned.

Does anyone seriously doubt this? Does anyone think that ND will not consider this half a billion dollars in its calculus?

Some of you think that ND is "greedy" when it makes less than everyone else.

What do you think that ND might do when presented with a chance to make a half a billion more?

Don't just assume that ND will meekly say "OK, you got me." and just join the ACC in full without exploring something unexpected. It has done it before (NBC deal, Big East deal, ACC deal).

Did anyone see those deals coming?

I mean, if ND is forced to surrender to a conference, it may as well get paid as much as it can for its surrender.

I think that all bets are off if the ACC forces ND into this situation under these circumstances.

One of the main reasons that ND is in the ACC is that the latter did not require football. Remove that...and force ND football into a conference, you can be sure that money will talk in that scenario.

Once things like this start, one never knows how things end up. That is my only point and is based on 1-3 above.

I don't think that I am discussing anything outrageous or controversial here.
I don’t think forcing ND into the ACC as full member is what they would want to help them out this year.

Again going from 5 annual games to 6 and giving an even 3home and 3away each year is a fair thing to get out of Notre Dame for bailing them out when conferences are all going Conference only.
 
I don’t think forcing ND into the ACC as full member is what they would want to help them out this year.

Again going from 5 annual games to 6 and giving an even 3home and 3away each year is a fair thing to get out of Notre Dame for bailing them out when conferences are all going Conference only.

Again, for a one year benefit, you want to yoke ND forever to the ACC for another football game.

Not sufficient consideration.

If you want to make it, "X number of future extra ND games in return for X number of extra ACC 2020 games", then maybe.

Fair trade.

Put a cap on it and make the numbers equal, then lets talk. Nothing open ended, forever.
 
My Big Ten discussion (I hate them with a white hot passion, by the way) is based on the following assumptions from this thread:

1) Covid forces all P5 conferences to play only conference games in 2020;

2) The ACC uses this to present a "join in full or suffer in 2020" ultimatum;

3) Covid and the ACC ultimatum forces ND to seriously re-consider its entire situation.

If these things force ND football into joining a conference, it would be foolish not to look at making over a half a billion or so extra dollars over 15 years in the process, GOR be damned.

Does anyone seriously doubt this? Does anyone think that ND will not consider this half a billion dollars in its calculus?

Some of you think that ND is "greedy" when it makes less than everyone else.

What do you think that ND might do when presented with a chance to make a half a billion more?

Don't just assume that ND will meekly say "OK, you got me." and just join the ACC in full without exploring something unexpected. It has done it before (NBC deal, Big East deal, ACC deal).

Did anyone see those deals coming?

I mean, if ND is forced to surrender to a conference, it may as well get paid as much as it can for its surrender.

I think that all bets are off if the ACC forces ND into this situation under these circumstances.

One of the main reasons that ND is in the ACC is that the latter did not require football. Remove that...and force ND football into a conference, you can be sure that money will talk in that scenario.

Once things like this start, one never knows how things end up. That is my only point and is based on 1-3 above.

I don't think that I am discussing anything outrageous or controversial here.

Two things:
(1) I agree with all the above. I hate ND's special status but honestly its a win/win for both sides and serves the purposes intended. They already play the 5 games, why should 1 more be a make or break situation? They're already in the ACC, if not in name only. And if they're backed into a corner and forced to join a conference, why not go for the B1G money instead? The ACC would survive an ND departure, but our value would decrease, while the B1G's would be secured in perpetuity. That's just facts.


Conferences have unique obligations due to the various needs of their members. ND has their own selfish needs, but they lose some flexibility by not having a conference. They may not be able to set the dinner table for themselves the way they want.View attachment 183758

And (2)...

I hate beets! :mad:
 
Two things:
(1) I agree with all the above. I hate ND's special status but honestly its a win/win for both sides and serves the purposes intended. They already play the 5 games, why should 1 more be a make or break situation? They're already in the ACC, if not in name only. And if they're backed into a corner and forced to join a conference, why not go for the B1G money instead? The ACC would survive an ND departure, but our value would decrease, while the B1G's would be secured in perpetuity. That's just facts.

The ACC has leverage if you don’t think Notre Dame doesn’t use its own leverage you have your head buried in sand.

The ACC should use its leverage.
Notre Dame has other options that they don’t want.

The ACC needs compensation if they are going to accommodate Notre Dame.


If Notre Dame was backed into corner there aren’t going to the Big Ten. They want nothing to do with the Big Ten it’s all a bluff. They use the Big Ten for the status quo of keeping their independence.

The ACC would be fine without Notre Dame. They would go play Big XII teams and make Clemson and Florida State they could get 7 home games every single season.
 
ND is in the ACC for all sports other than football.
The ACC has a 16 year lock on ND for football conference membership.
ND is good for the ACC network.
It is good business to help out a partner when they are in need.
The ACC is making a great business decision and doing the right thing. In business you gain much more by helping partners than by trying to leverage or take advantage of them. Especially when the situation is caused by an act of God.
Great decision by the ACC.

Notre Dame has been screwing everyone in college athletics for 100 years. They absolutely wouldn’t help the ACC teams if the roles were reversed. They would leverage the situation to get a larger share of the ACC pie, bowl rights or something. No way ND would help out of the kindness of their heart.
 
My Big Ten discussion (I hate them with a white hot passion, by the way) is based on the following assumptions from this thread:

1) Covid forces all P5 conferences to play only conference games in 2020;

2) The ACC uses this to present a "join in full or suffer in 2020" ultimatum;

3) Covid and the ACC ultimatum forces ND to seriously re-consider its entire situation.

If these things force ND football into joining a conference, it would be foolish not to look at making over a half a billion or so extra dollars over 15 years in the process, GOR be damned.

Does anyone seriously doubt this? Does anyone think that ND will not consider this half a billion dollars in its calculus?

Some of you think that ND is "greedy" when it makes less than everyone else.

What do you think that ND might do when presented with a chance to make a half a billion more?

Don't just assume that ND will meekly say "OK, you got me." and just join the ACC in full without exploring something unexpected. It has done it before (NBC deal, Big East deal, ACC deal).

Did anyone see those deals coming?

I mean, if ND is forced to surrender to a conference, it may as well get paid as much as it can for its surrender.

I think that all bets are off if the ACC forces ND into this situation under these circumstances.

One of the main reasons that ND is in the ACC is that the latter did not require football. Remove that...and force ND football into a conference, you can be sure that money will talk in that scenario.

Once things like this start, one never knows how things end up. That is my only point and is based on 1-3 above.

I don't think that I am discussing anything outrageous or controversial here.

False premise is false.
There’s no such thing as “GOR be dammed”.

I also think your calculus is wrong, given that the whole point of a GOR is to provide compensation for breaking a contract.

You think the ACC’s response to ND violating their current agreements to join the B1G will be “ok, good luck then”?

If EVERY P5 goes to Conference Only for 2020, and ND isn’t in a conference, then nobody is obligated to play them this year.

And there’s zero guarantee that Covid is a 2020 only phenomenon.
 

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