Huh? He led the nation in passing ahead of Troy Aikmen. He was starting qb on a team that went unbeaten
Will Covid force Notre Dame to join ACC as a full member?
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Toga
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Total yards was the criterion for one season only.
longtimefan
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I am sure the ND SID put on a full-court press for Tim Brown. Just as they did 30 years earlier for Hornung.
I know that's their job (although how they did it with a straight face for the Golden Boy is beyond me).
There seems to be a "benefit of the doubt" advantage that has worked for ND football over the decades. Much as there is for Duke basketball these days.
TheCusian
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COVID is going to push ND into the ACC this season and the hope is that they’ll get used to it. As always, their reasoning is faulty for remaining independent and they are just waiting for old boosters to kick it before committing ...
Hoo's That
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How do you pick which games each team plays outside its pod? How do you pick two teams to be in the championship game with 3 pods? Virginia has to play UNC every year or you get 2 automatic "No" votes on the change. You need 16 teams (evenly divided into 4 pods) to work a pod system without creating a mountain of hassles. If ND comes in we'd probably go to 4-5-5. And if the SEC and B1G won't change the rule to let us have a championship game out of spite for getting ND, we'll just have to give up having one. Having a 3-5-5 schedule instead of divisions is to their stud teams' advantage, too. LSU wouldn't have to play both Bama and Auburn every year. Ohio State and Michigan wouldn't have to play Penn State every year and vice versa.
CousCuse
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Who is team 16 Hoo?
Hoo's That
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The standard semi-joking reply has been "Whoever ND wants." If they have no preference, then it's wide open. There are a lot of "Don't wants". NCSU and UNC don't want East Carolina. Miami and FSU don't want another team from Florida. Everybody doesn't want UConn. My best guess - Temple because the hybrid Navy (for football only)-Georgetown (for everything else) membership would be tough to sell to some of the members. Temple has had reasonable success in football and basketball lately and they have a lot of the Olympic sports the ACC sponsors. It also puts us on a better footing in the Philly market and puts more pressure on Comcast (HQ in Philly) to carry the ACCN. I know more people in PA care more about Penn State, but taking Temple gives the conference nice visibility in eastern PA (their enrollment is 39K+).
Cuse'91
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I would prefer Cincinnati based on market share. Most people would instinctively view Cincinnati OH as B1G territory, but its proximity to Lexington KY gives the SEC a huge foothold in that market as well. Getting ND and UC would give the ACC a solid Mid-West footprint. Also would give Louisville a natural rivalry...
It was one of those years where nobody really stood out. I liked McPherson and he deserved it as much as anybody else. He was 32nd in passing percentage and 19th in passing yards. Troy Aikman had a rather pedestrian college career btw.
If ND agrees now top go full member in football, the ACC will be open to a few P5 schools should they have an interest in joining when ND goes full football. That list will start with Texas, which may well still be uncertain of the future of the Big XII.
Texas will never join the SEC - the SEC killed the SWC, which Texas controlled almost singlehandedly, and the SEC almost killed and did deeply injure the Big XII. Plus, Texas will not follow the lead of Texas A&M.
Texas will not join the Big Ten, even if the BT were to agree to take OU. Texas is not going to want to play a midwestern schedule, and it is not going to want to suffer under the Ohio St-Michigan regime and be the 3rd wheel while the other two are mated for life.
Texas will not join the Pac now, not with A&M in the SEC, and not with what we now know about the probability of the Pac losing fans steadily well in to the future.
If Texas is ready to leave the Big XII, Texas will go ACC as long as ND is and the Texas-ND game is annual. UT-ND played annually will dwarf UT-Aggie and nationally will become bigger than UT-OU ever was and at least as big as ND-SC at the peak of that rivalry.
If Texas is keeping the Big XII, the ACC will be open to Penn St should its leaders realize that the Nits best sports interests (not money interests) lie in the ACC, in playing Pitt and Cuse annually in both revenue sports. If ACC leaders were to decide that TX is a state worth being in but UT intends to stay put, the ACC might explore both TCU and Baylor. Either would leave, in a snap, to join the ACC when ND does.
If we decide to add a 16th that is not now in a P5, I think Cincy is far and away the best choice. OH is easily the largest state with only 1 P5, and OH is very rich in talent in both revenue sports. And the geography is perfect for the ACC.
Texas will never join the SEC - the SEC killed the SWC, which Texas controlled almost singlehandedly, and the SEC almost killed and did deeply injure the Big XII. Plus, Texas will not follow the lead of Texas A&M.
Texas will not join the Big Ten, even if the BT were to agree to take OU. Texas is not going to want to play a midwestern schedule, and it is not going to want to suffer under the Ohio St-Michigan regime and be the 3rd wheel while the other two are mated for life.
Texas will not join the Pac now, not with A&M in the SEC, and not with what we now know about the probability of the Pac losing fans steadily well in to the future.
If Texas is ready to leave the Big XII, Texas will go ACC as long as ND is and the Texas-ND game is annual. UT-ND played annually will dwarf UT-Aggie and nationally will become bigger than UT-OU ever was and at least as big as ND-SC at the peak of that rivalry.
If Texas is keeping the Big XII, the ACC will be open to Penn St should its leaders realize that the Nits best sports interests (not money interests) lie in the ACC, in playing Pitt and Cuse annually in both revenue sports. If ACC leaders were to decide that TX is a state worth being in but UT intends to stay put, the ACC might explore both TCU and Baylor. Either would leave, in a snap, to join the ACC when ND does.
If we decide to add a 16th that is not now in a P5, I think Cincy is far and away the best choice. OH is easily the largest state with only 1 P5, and OH is very rich in talent in both revenue sports. And the geography is perfect for the ACC.
HtownOrange
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Fair analysis. There are a few more options, such as: 1) expanding beyond 16; 2) Dragging Maryland back into the fold (would affect the B1G deals - losing the DMV market - as wells as forcing them to take another weak/duplicative team or dump Rutgers - losing the NYC market as well as the DMV); and 3) UH in lieu of UT/TCU/Baylor.
FRANKIEFAN
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Texas.
I make an offer to Vandy or Northwestern.
Colorado might say yes.
BYU fall back option.
I make an offer to Vandy or Northwestern.
Colorado might say yes.
BYU fall back option.
I don't think they will go larger than 16 because they have figured out how to schedule for 16 teams, but not for more.
That Maryland move was truly panicky, truly short-sighted. I do not see Maryland leaders eating a ton of crow and admitting that Maryland was wrong, not just in doing it, but in doing it in such a despicable, Big Ten way.
I live in TN and have family ties to Vandy - my brother is a season ticket holder for football and baseball. I would love to have Vandy in the ACC. The Nashville TV market is large and filled with college sports fans. But the Vandy brass has a long history of loving being the lone private school in the SEC. It allows them to put on airs around all the Ag college grads.
If ND wants Northwestern and it wants the ACC, I say go for it.
No way the ACC extends into Mountain Time.
orange79
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sutomcat
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Brown won, McPherson finished 2nd. Don had been plagued by injuries until his senior season, so he came pretty much out of nowhere, in 1987 much as the Entire Syracuse team did. A lot of the Heisman voters are old, don’t follow the sport closely and just vote for the person with the most press. That would be Brown In 1987.
Donnie’s slim chances were Really hurt when Rick Reilly wrote an article for Sports Illustrated extolling the virtues of D1AA player Gordie Lockbaum, imploring voters to vote for him for the Heisman. Lockbaum was a decent offensive player and a good defensive player whose primary selling point was him playing both ways in 1987. I don’t think anyone, including Gordie, Would include in the top 100 players in college football in 1987. But a bunch of voters took the bait, and voted for the two way player, splitting some of the vote in the Northeast between him and McPherson.
1987 Heisman Trophy Voting | College Football at Sports-Reference.com
1987 Heisman Trophy Voting
www.sports-reference.com
There have been many questionable Herman choices but this one was the most egregious. This one or maybe the bizarre vote that gave the Heisman to another overrated ND player on a bad Irish team in 1956/
Here are the stats for Tim Brown and Don McPherson in 1987:
Tim Brown
| Games | KO Returns | Yards | Avg | TDs | Punt Returns | Yards | Avg | TDs |
| 11 | 23 | 456 | 19.8 | 0 | 34 | 401 | 11.8 | 3 |
| Games | Catches | Yards | Avg | TDs | Att | Yards | Avg | TDs | Plays | Yards | Avg | TDs |
| 11 | 39 | 846 | 21.7 | 3 | 34 | 144 | 4.2 | 1 | 73 | 990 | 13.6 | 4 |
Don McPherson
| Games |
Passes
Pct
Yards
Yards/AttAdj Yds/AttTDs
Int
Rate1112922956.3234110.210.02211164.3
| Games | Att | Yards | Avg | TDs | Rec | Yards | Avg | TDs | Plays | Yards | Avg | TDs |
| 11 | 110 | 230 | 2.1 | 5 | 1 | 7 | 7.0 | 1 | 111 | 237 | 2.1 | 6 |
Donnie led the county in passing efficiency. He also led the country in TDs responsible for (28). And led Syracuse to an undefeated season, finishing 4th in the country.
Tim actually had a worse year than his junior season. He didn’t led the country in anything. He had 3 TDs receiving. You read that right. He had 1 rushing TD and 3 TDs returning punts. He was a good punt returner, an average KO returner and a decent WR. And ND ended 1987 ranked 17th in the country, finishing 8-4.
It is ridiculous that he was even considered. Players like Donnie, Thurman Thomas and Craig Hayward were far more impactful.
007
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What about Perth? Australia is untapped as a college football market.
FRANKIEFAN
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Whos the most likely to say 'yes' from the B1G or SEC?
South Carolina? Indiana?
I think those two and Vandy/Northwestern are the only options. Makes sense for all 4 especially if they get to join w/ND.
No Big Ten or SEC team is leaving their conference for another conference without being kicked out.
Notre Dame isn’t going to become a full time member in the ACC.
2020 would be a exception unless their leadership is ready to tell its older alumni to go away.
If ND became a full time member let them pick team 16.
Whomever ND wanted that could be brought in would be the choice.
Understanding that choice would have to be willingly as well and no Big Ten or SEC member would leave.
The obvious contenders would be West Virginia, Navy, Cincinnati, Temple, Central Florida, South Florida.
West Virginia would make a lot of sense but screw them.
Notre Dame isn’t going to become a full time member in the ACC.
2020 would be a exception unless their leadership is ready to tell its older alumni to go away.
If ND became a full time member let them pick team 16.
Whomever ND wanted that could be brought in would be the choice.
Understanding that choice would have to be willingly as well and no Big Ten or SEC member would leave.
The obvious contenders would be West Virginia, Navy, Cincinnati, Temple, Central Florida, South Florida.
West Virginia would make a lot of sense but screw them.
Brown won, McPherson finished 2nd. Don had been plagued by injuries until his senior season, so he came pretty much out of nowhere, in 1987 much as the Entire Syracuse team did. A lot of the Heisman voters are old, don’t follow the sport closely and just vote for the person with the most press. That would be Brown In 1987.
Donnie’s slim chances were Really hurt when Rick Reilly wrote an article for Sports Illustrated extolling the virtues of D1AA player Gordie Lockbaum, imploring voters to vote for him for the Heisman. Lockbaum was a decent offensive player and a good defensive player whose primary selling point was him playing both ways in 1987. I don’t think anyone, including Gordie, Would include in the top 100 players in college football in 1987. But a bunch of voters took the bait, and voted for the two way player, splitting some of the vote in the Northeast between him and McPherson.
1987 Heisman Trophy Voting | College Football at Sports-Reference.com
1987 Heisman Trophy Voting
There have been many questionable Herman choices but this one was the most egregious. This one or maybe the bizarre vote that gave the Heisman to another overrated ND player on a bad Irish team in 1956/
Here are the stats for Tim Brown and Don McPherson in 1987:
Tim Brown
Games KO Returns Yards Avg TDs Punt Returns Yards Avg TDs 11 23 456 19.8 0 34 401 11.8 3
Games Catches Yards Avg TDs Att Yards Avg TDs Plays Yards Avg TDs 11 39 846 21.7 3 34 144 4.2 1 73 990 13.6 4
Don McPherson
Completions
Games
Passes
Pct
Yards
Yards/AttAdj Yds/AttTDs
Int
Rate1112922956.3234110.210.02211164.3
Games Att Yards Avg TDs Rec Yards Avg TDs Plays Yards Avg TDs 11 110 230 2.1 5 1 7 7.0 1 111 237 2.1 6
Donnie led the county in passing efficiency. He also led the country in TDs responsible for (28). And led Syracuse to an undefeated season, finishing 4th in the country.
Tim actually had a worse year than his junior season. He didn’t led the country in anything. He had 3 TDs receiving. You read that right. He had 1 rushing TD and 3 TDs returning punts. He was a good punt returner, an average KO returner and a decent WR. And ND ended 1987 ranked 17th in the country, finishing 8-4.
It is ridiculous that he was even considered. Players like Donnie, Thurman Thomas and Craig Hayward were far more impactful.
Solid points. I had forgotten all about Gordie Lockbaum. That did hurt McPherson's candidacy. I think u make a good point about McPherson not coming in with any hype. That can be tough to overcome. I get the argument against Brown but I've never advocated for Brown. My point was more that nobody really stepped up with a performance that solidly distanced themselves from the pack.
Just a few counters to consider: 1) McPherson's completion percentage at 56% probably didn't impress voters all that much; 2) the reality is that the 1987 team was as much or more about defense. I believe in eight of the 12 games the defense held the opponent to no more than one TD; 3) Not Donny's fault but the strength of schedule was kinda meh, we did not have one win over an opponent that finished in the top 20 (they didn't do top 25 back then) final poll.
donniesyracuse
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Yeah, Penn State was ranked for most of the season, dropped-out after losing to Pitt, finished the regular season ranked after beating Notre Dame, but then lost to Clemson in the bowl game.
I remember Pitt being ranked for a bit after beating Penn State, but that didn’t last.
