"Wolves do not fret over the opinion of sheep"

[Col. Bleep]

-Gregg Marshall

I like WSU...think they're a strong, well-coached team.
But wolves also don't have the sense to know when a 30-ought-6 is pointed at them.
And there are about 15 big game hunters out there ready to take them down.

 

[Timonen]

-Gregg Marshall

Here's why I'd bet on them being a complete fraud...and why all the folks yelling about "it's not their fault nobody would play them" need to knock it off.

Butler opponents in 2011: Louisville, Duke, Xavier, Stanford, Utah, FSU, Washington St.
Butler opponents in 2010: Minnesota, UCLA, Clemson, Georgetown, Ohio St., Xavier
VCU opponents in 2010: Wake Forest, Tennessee, UCLA

WSU is clearly good but their record doesn't mean diddly poo. They have ZERO big boy basketball experience this season. ZERO. I would LOVE to play them instead of the other options on the 1 line.

 

[cuseincincy]

Wolves? I'd say they're more of coyotes slinking around in the dark picking off the weak and the injured on the fringe. Wolves attack with no fear and will take down prey larger than them. Coyotes won't pick a fight if there's a chance they'll lose.

 

[Briancuse]

Would that make them 1 of the best teams of all time?

Its funny... they are so polarizing now... but are 6 games away from true immortality.

I don't think that they are going to win it all, but I think they are going to win at least 3 games.

 

[Divergence]

I thought our SOS was bad at 61 but the shockers are at 94. Apparently not that bad as last year Gonzaga had a 97 SOS and that was deemed the worst SOS of any number one seed in twenty years ...

Edit - the Zags lost to the shockers in the second round, forgot about that. Shockers ended the year at number 39 SOS.

WSU Non-Conference SOS is 31
Syracuse's Non-Conference SOS 61

WSU problem is not from their non-conference schedule, the issue is with their conference. Not much WSU can do about that except win. MVC was hurt with CU leaving neither UNI or the senior laden Indiana St. (they had 5 seniors) were able to step up their program.

 

[Timonen]

WSU Non-Conference SOS is 31
Syracuse's Non-Conference SOS 61

WSU problem is not from their non-conference schedule, the issue is with their conference. Not much WSU can do about that except win. MVC was hurt with CU leaving neither UNI or the senior laden Indiana St. (they had 5 seniors) were able to step up their program.

no, the problem is the net of the two. they have no control over the conference...so they'd be better served to up their non-conference.

 

[CusefanATL]

WSU Non-Conference SOS is 31
Syracuse's Non-Conference SOS 61

WSU problem is not from their non-conference schedule, the issue is with their conference. Not much WSU can do about that except win. MVC was hurt with CU leaving neither UNI or the senior laden Indiana St. (they had 5 seniors) were able to step up their program.

Come on... there is a HUGE difference:

Syracuse beat: Minny, Baylor, Cal, Indiana, Nova, St Johns.

I'll give Wichita State their entire schedule and they cant match Cuse's non-conf schedule.

What killed Cuse was the 3 or 4 horrible horrible teams they played. But that doesnt really have an effect on anything, because even if they got lucky and played better mid-majors at home - they would have beaten them all.

 

[pearl31]

WSU Non-Conference SOS is 31
Syracuse's Non-Conference SOS 61

WSU problem is not from their non-conference schedule, the issue is with their conference. Not much WSU can do about that except win. MVC was hurt with CU leaving neither UNI or the senior laden Indiana St. (they had 5 seniors) were able to step up their program.

Hey, nice Seth Davis parroting routine.
Let's cling to their "#31" non-con SOS (with a win over mighty SLU as the crowning achievement) and pretend they're in some way elite.

BTW, I watched them play against both SLU and Alabama and the "eye" test told me that they are a good team, probably deserving of a protected seed, but nowhere near a 1 or 2 seed.

We'll see, though, won't we?

(and, no, it certainly doesn't help that Marshall as emerged as probably the biggest coaching douche this side of Jamie Dixon)

 

[CuseFaninVT]

Last thing on this issue for me, because I think it's silly. Wichita St. played essentially the same schedule last year and ended up in the Final Four. VCU looks like one of the only differences, besides Creighton obviously, and they beat VCU. And they actually had a pretty bad losing spell. Whether or not they will make it back to the same spot in this year's tourney is anyone's guess, but I don't understand the hating on them that I'm seeing here.

If SU had done more (specifically had they not lost to BC and GT) I could see the argument for us over them, but we slipped up and they didn't.

 

[pearl31]

A) This isn't about SU.
B) Last year was last year.
C) Based on the supposed criteria for seeding, they have not demonstrated that they deserve a 1 or 2 seed—compared to the teams that have demonstrated it.

 

[CuseCPT]

I was just trying to make that point that HoustonCuse refined a bit better, that going into this year there is no upside to a major program scheduling Wichita State. You lose and you hear about it endlessly, you win, so what you were supposed to. That probably doesn't apply anymore though, now if you lose to them people will say "see they are good!' and if you beat them you get props. Totally different equation for them now.

 

[longislandcuse]

Last thing on this issue for me, because I think it's silly. Wichita St. played essentially the same schedule last year and ended up in the Final Four. VCU looks like one of the only differences, besides Creighton obviously, and they beat VCU. And they actually had a pretty bad losing spell. Whether or not they will make it back to the same spot in this year's tourney is anyone's guess, but I don't understand the hating on them that I'm seeing here.

If SU had done more (specifically had they not lost to BC and GT) I could see the argument for us over them, but we slipped up and they didn't.

What do you think their record would be playing our schedule?

BC and Tech would probably be equivalent to Indiana State if they were in that league.

 

[Divergence]

I would assume Wichita St and Creighton will set something up.

No. WSU and CU coaching staffs don't like each other. CU will likely set up some game versus other MVC teams at some point but it won't be against WSU.

 

[HOFCeluck]

Here's why I'd bet on them being a complete fraud...and why all the folks yelling about "it's not their fault nobody would play them" need to knock it off.

Butler opponents in 2011: Louisville, Duke, Xavier, Stanford, Utah, FSU, Washington St.
Butler opponents in 2010: Minnesota, UCLA, Clemson, Georgetown, Ohio St., Xavier
VCU opponents in 2010: Wake Forest, Tennessee, UCLA

WSU is clearly good but their record doesn't mean diddly poo. They have ZERO big boy basketball experience this season. ZERO. I would LOVE to play them instead of the other options on the 1 line.

I love that you used an 8-24 Wake Forest team to support your arguement that WSU hasn't played anyone.

They just did something that hasn't been done in 23 years. I think they're pretty good.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

No.

Yes. Van Vleet and Baker are better than Tyler and Trevor. Not by a long shot, but mostly because they are consistently very good.

 

[Divergence]

Wichita state lost 4 guys from last year, 3 of which averaged over 25 minutes a game. 2 of their top scorers. Its not exactly the same team that went to the final four.

Actually last year WSU NCAA tournament team is lot closer to this year team than it might look by looking at raw end-0f-season stats. SG Ron Baker was injured for most of the year and just came back for the NCAA tournament. He averaged over 30+ minutes in the NCAA and scored 6, 16, 13, 9 and 11 pts and was one of the reasons WSU was capable of the final 4 run. PG Fred Van Vleet also started taking a bigger role on the team due to injury of another Shocker and was averaging 20+ minutes during the NCAA tournament and had big games against Gonzaga and OSU.

Carl Hall is real difference between '13 and '14 Shockers. Since Marshall didn't have another Hall available he took a "moneyball" approach and replace him aggregate of players (Carter, Lufile and Coleby).

With that said however, they did lose some games in conference last year to teams other then Creighton. What they have done so far is really really impressive, but I agree that it is against very weak competition. Still incredibly hard to do, I mean we lost to a 6 win BC team at home. I still dont think they make it to a final four however. As we saw with Gonzaga last year, you need to be tested and they were not really tested all year. Their toughest game was against St louis; not all that impressive. Their second round matchup against an 8 or 9 will probably be their toughest game to date.

That where the haters are being dishonest - it is hard to win every game even, against mid-150's competition. There is some team that is just going to shoot lights when you are off. So for WSU to go 34-0 says something about their ability to bring a consistent game night after night. Now the rub is how much credit do you give them.

 

[Divergence]

Hey, nice Seth Davis parroting routine.
Let's cling to their "#31" non-con SOS (with a win over mighty SLU as the crowning achievement) and pretend they're in some way elite.

No, their non-conference crowning achievement is they beat SLU, BYU and Tennessee all potential NCAA teams. It would have been nice to have gotten Texas (but BYU beat them). WSU also lost what was a high-quality matchup on a neutral court (Dallas) to be on ESPN - but the opponent backed out because they didn't want to play WSU. It was rumored to have been a B12 opponent.

BTW, I watched them play against both SLU and Alabama and the "eye" test told me that they are a good team, probably deserving of a protected seed, but nowhere near a 1 or 2 seed.

We'll see, though, won't we?

In a normal year WSU probably no more than a 4 or 5 seed - but the thing they have going for them is their undefeated record.

(and, no, it certainly doesn't help that Marshall as emerged as probably the biggest coaching douche this side of Jamie Dixon)

Hopefully that will work to Wichita advantage and nobody will come calling. Because that is the real key for teams like a Wichita State to stay on the national scene. They need to keep a quality guy and have continuity year in and year out.

 

[pearl31]

.

Just curious - are you a Wichita State fan?

 

[FlynessNJuicy]

by what right does the wolf judge the lion?

 

[jncuse]

No. WSU and CU coaching staffs don't like each other. CU will likely set up some game versus other MVC teams at some point but it won't be against WSU.

Has there ever been any talk of a home and home with teams like Gonzaga, Xavier, Memphis, or other mid-majors like UConn?

 

[Divergence]

Just curious - are you a Wichita State fan?

Yes I am.

 

[Divergence]

Has there ever been any talk of a home and home with teams like Gonzaga, Xavier, Memphis, or other mid-majors like UConn?

Not that I have heard of. But Coach Marshall keeps things close to the vest. Coach Marshall has said that scheduling has gotten a little easier and they are about to close some things for next year - but he said he can't give any details until the deals are done.

 

[BlackKnight76]

Has there ever been any talk of a home and home with teams like Gonzaga, Xavier, Memphis, or other mid-majors like UConn?

I see what you did there, and I like it.

 

[pearl31]

Yes I am.

ok, so more curiosity on my part… why posting on a Syracuse message board and how did you find your way here?

 

[Divergence]

ok, so more curiosity on my part… why posting on a Syracuse message board and how did you find your way here?

just a college basketball fan. WSU and Syracuse paths seem to occasionally get intertwined.