Worst Cuse team in JB era

[JeremyCuse]

I am not sure that stat is about just threes. That stat might refer to any shot that is not a layup.

Its just threes, sorry I was off by 10, hes 8 for his last 50+, undefensable. Players at Hobart dont shoot that bad.

iommi said: ↑​

Reece just said that BT is 2 for his last 18 from deep. Wow. Yuck. I didn't realize it was that bad.​

yeah but he had been a 6-30 roll before that...

that's right - 8-48​

 

[BlackKnight76]

We may yet be champions!

And I may yet wake up next to Jennifer Lawrence tomorrow. Unfortunately, I didn't run into her in DC tonight so it ain't looking too good.

 

[Mr. M]

Easily. They'll have a better record than many others, but that's because college hoop in general is horrible this year.

At this point, this team is just bad. It takes a minor miracle for them to score a basket against good teams.

Easily? Are you guys serious? We're having a swoon which brought confidence down, but this is not the worst team in the JB era at all. The Shumpert Deshaun Williams Greg Davis James Theus years were worse. The Donte Greene year wasn't great...I know it's not looking great at the moment, but our record is good, we beat Ville and the easy teams we shoulda beat...I can see us winning 2-3 games in the tourney if we play good D and get a decent draw opponent wise.

 

[omg_cuse_rules]

We are the best 23-8 team in the country. 23 wins and 8 "moral victories"

 

[OrangeDW]

Easily? Are you guys serious? We're having a swoon which brought confidence down, but this is not the worst team in the JB era at all. The Shumpert Deshaun Williams Greg Davis James Theus years were worse. The Donte Greene year wasn't great...I know it's not looking great at the moment, but our record is good, we beat Ville and the easy teams we shoulda beat...I can see us winning 2-3 games in the tourney if we play good D and get a decent draw opponent wise.

Easily was an exaggeration, taking the whole season into account. But I don't ever remember an SU team struggling to score in so many games like this one has, especially lately.

Shumpert and Greene were both better than anyone on this team.

The Greene team was dumb and terrible defensively. Maybe this isn't the worst overall team, but it's become the worst offensive team and the hardest to watch. I dreaded every single half court possession in the Gtown games because I knew we wouldn't score on 90% of them.

 

[DoctorBombay]

 

[alphaorange]

There is some truth to both sides of this. We are not a good shooting team, but neither are we the horrific shooting team that we have shown. There is plenty of reason for hope, as:
1) We defend teams that are unfamiliar with the zone very well
2) Any player or team can have a good shooting game or series of games, which because of 1) means we win that game(s)

Jason Kidd just completed a complete disaster of a 3 pt skid that was nearly as bad as BTs. He broke out of it by hitting four in a row. His career % is above 40%. It happens to all shooters at some point. Our guys CAN hit shots. The only thing that matters from here on in is WILL they? If they do, all this is just white noise.

 

[orangecuse]

Even JB could shoot better than the players on the floor. This is just a Poor shooting team, not JBs fault.

Maybe not (JB's fault) but JB actually stated in his post game presser that their offensive woes yesterday was on him...I don't recall when I last heard him say such a thing (if ever) and placing the onis there... :noidea:

 

[strumpfasaurus]

And I may yet wake up next to Jennifer Lawrence tomorrow. Unfortunately, I didn't run into her in DC tonight so it ain't looking too good.

I think Vegas has us at a higher chance of waking up next to Jennifer Lawrence then us winning the NCAA championship. I would take the spread on the former.

 

[mantonio]

So you are saying here that anyone who disagrees with you and your worldview should be shot? Falling under your label of nihilistic pessimism would be folks like Mark Twain, Albert Einstein, Charles Dickens, Charles Bukowski, and many more, including the best poets and writers and thinkers in history should've been shot?

Why is everyone misunderstanding my statement? Do I have to explain myself to you people like I am teaching a kindergarten class?

Okay, if I must...

Nihilism tends to drive people towards suicidal thoughts... hence the gunshot reference... It was not a threat to all nihilists, simply a prediction of their possible fate at their own hands...

It was obviously a sarcastic exaggeration to make a point.

Now do you understand?

 

[OttoMets]

The "bad" JB teams: 1981-82, 1996-97, 1998-99, 2001-02, 2007-08 and this one. 81-82 and 07-08 were impacted by injuries to key players. 96-97 and 01-02 were very young. This year's team can't shoot. The 98-99 team is the one that's always bothered me the most. The nadir of effort for a Syracuse team was against Providence that year where we kept fouling to get the ball back, they kept missing foul shots and they kept getting the rebound. I think that happened something like 9 times in a row.

But none of those teams had a losing record.

1999 is an underrated disappointing team. They had most of the pieces that added up to a very good team the following year, but they were very inconsistent. Looked great against South Carolina, looked awful at UCLA. And the Providence game was infuriating; I believe that was the longest scoreless streak to open a game in the Boeheim era. We were standing for a long time and got down 17 or 18 to nothing.

Wouldn't call 2002 a young team - mostly juniors with experience, plus Shumpert as a senior. But they had their troubles.

And 1997 had a self-inflicted difficulty that was every bit as damaging as the Rautins injury in 1982 - Todd Burgan got himself suspended and we lost just enough Big East games in that seven-game stretch to leave us on the wrong side of the bubble (which led to my choice for nadir of effort - the Florida State NIT game where Syracuse quit in the second half).

 

[alibrat66]

Why is everyone misunderstanding my statement? Do I have to explain myself to you people like I am teaching a kindergarten class?

Okay, if I must...

Nihilism tends to drive people towards suicidal thoughts... hence the gunshot reference... It was not a threat to all nihilists, simply a prediction of their possible fate at their own hands...

It was obviously a sarcastic exaggeration to make a point.

Now do you understand?

Fair enough. Now kindly cite your reference that "nihilism tends to drive people towards (sic) suicidal thoughts" at a greater rate than optimists or Christians or whatever have suicidal thoughts.

 

[realorange]

Maybe not (JB's fault) but JB actually stated in his post game presser that their offensive woes yesterday was on him...I don't recall when I last heard him say such a thing (if ever) and placing the onis there... :noidea:

Yeah, I mentioned that in another thread. I think he did that in part to take a little of the blame off of the players who he also said were losing confidence in their offense.

 

[mantonio]

Fair enough. Now kindly cite your reference that "nihilism tends to drive people towards (sic) suicidal thoughts" at a greater rate than optimists or Christians or whatever have suicidal thoughts.

C'mon, I was using a cliche' to make an assertion. Most people don't associate Christians or optimists with suicide, even if a small percentage of them have considered or attempted it.

We might be over-thinking this a tad bit, don'tcha think?

 

[alibrat66]

C'mon, I was using a cliche' to make an assertion. Most people don't associate Christians or optimists with suicide, even if a small percentage of them have considered or attempted it.

We might be over-thinking this a tad bit, don'tcha think?

What I figured. Now, I'll pass on a cliche to you: All hat and no cattle.

 

[kirbivore]

The 2002 team truly couldn't do anything right between the Tennessee loss and the NIT.

Additionally, the 2008 team played mostly dumb basketball and didn't defend at all. The 2006 team looked as bad as today's team looked at several different points (but they also looked as good as we looked against Louisville and Notre Dame at several other times). And I'd probably take this year's team over the 1993 team, too.

But there's a common theme here. Young point guard + limited veteran leadership = below average Syracuse team.

I disagree about 1993. If not for probation they would've been a tourney team. Veteran guards in Hopkins (sr.) and Autry (jr.). Other primary players were Moten (so.) and McRae (sr, RIP). Went 8-3 down the stretch and finished 3rd in a 10 team Big East, advancing to the BET title game before being blasted by Seton Hall. Interesting that the Big East allowed an SU team banned from the NCAA tourney into the BET that year yet won't let storz compete in this year's BET. Not that I'm complaining.

 

[SWC75]

I disagree about 1993. If not for probation they would've been a tourney team. Veteran guards in Hopkins (sr.) and Autry (jr.). Other primary players were Moten (so.) and McRae (sr, RIP). Went 8-3 down the stretch and finished 3rd in a 10 team Big East, advancing to the BET title game before being blasted by Seton Hall. Interesting that the Big East allowed an SU team banned from the NCAA tourney into the BET that year yet won't let storz compete in this year's BET. Not that I'm complaining.

Actually, this year team could be described as the 2006 team minus GMAC.

 

[sufandu]

From a talent perspective, this team is one of the better JB squads in his history, & that is a big part of the chances for success in the Tourney.

I would take a team of talented players that need an attitude adjustment before tourney time, than a bunch of scrappy wannabe's who have a low ceiling.

This squad is capable of a championship if they fix what's in their heads. MANY of JB's past teams did not have that ability.

Are they talented or athletic? The two are not synonymous, and it takes more than running fast and jumping high to put the ball in the basket.

 

[OttoMets]

I disagree about 1993. If not for probation they would've been a tourney team. Veteran guards in Hopkins (sr.) and Autry (jr.). Other primary players were Moten (so.) and McRae (sr, RIP). Went 8-3 down the stretch and finished 3rd in a 10 team Big East, advancing to the BET title game before being blasted by Seton Hall. Interesting that the Big East allowed an SU team banned from the NCAA tourney into the BET that year yet won't let storz compete in this year's BET. Not that I'm complaining.

We did finish pretty well that year (unlike this season), but I always thought that that team had a lot of good pieces that did add up to a greater whole (a little like this season). Racked up a lot of losses (nine or ten, I think) in a Big East that wasn't as strong as it had been in the last ten years nor as strong as it would be toward the middle of the decade. And. considering all the upperclassmen on that squad, our play was maddening at times (aside from the championship game loss, one game that sticks out is the Hopkins-McRae win at the Spectrum - the ending was epic, but the meltdown that led to Nova having the lead at that point was equally remarkable).

Truly don't get the league's inconsistent treatment of SU and UConn as far as the tournament goes. Oh well.

 

[OttoMets]

Actually, this year team could be described as the 2006 team minus GMAC.

I think we're better than that team, McNamara or not. Some similarities (the Depaul and Cincinnati losses, not to mention Bucknell and Drexel, were more maddending than anything we saw this year) and one large (probable) difference (four games in New York). Though that last one remains to be seen.

 

[mantonio]

Are they talented or athletic? The two are not synonymous, and it takes more than running fast and jumping high to put the ball in the basket.

I suppose raw athletic ability can be defined as talent, but I do get your point.

The bottom line is, it takes raw athletic ability to get your team in place to win a National Title. All the Ball shooting skill in the world will not win you a title if you don't have a few athletes on the team.

Syracuse has the raw talent to get there, it's simply a question of how well they have developed that talent. They can get the ball in the hole, because we have seen them do it this season.

The question is, can they do it against a team that bangs them all the way to the hole, & will the officials call the game according to basketball rules, not prison rules?

You can sense the frustration by this team when they get their arses kicked by the linebackers on G'town & Pitt, & the refs swallow their whistles.

 

[sufandu]

I suppose raw athletic ability can be defined as talent, but I do get your point.

The bottom line is, it takes raw athletic ability to get your team in place to win a National Title. All the Ball shooting skill in the world will not win you a title if you don't have a few athletes on the team.

Syracuse has the raw talent to get there, it's simply a question of how well they have developed that talent. They can get the ball in the hole, because we have seen them do it this season.

The question is, can they do it against a team that bangs them all the way to the hole, & will the officials call the game according to basketball rules, not prison rules?

You can sense the frustration by this team when they get their arses kicked by the linebackers on G'town & Pitt, & the refs swallow their whistles.

I mostly agree. You can't be absent with either athletic ability or skill. We could compare MCW and GMac, maybe. MCW is certainly more athletic and may be in the NBA next year, yet GMac was a better college player as a sophomore and came up huge many times over his career. Was GMac completely devoid of athletic ability? No, but it was his grit and skill that carried him. We have too many athletic players that have an obvious lack of skill and/or grit.

 

[mantonio]

I mostly agree. You can't be absent with either athletic ability or skill. We could compare MCW and GMac, maybe. MCW is certainly more athletic and may be in the NBA next year, yet GMac was a better college player as a sophomore and came up huge many times over his career. Was GMac completely devoid of athletic ability? No, but it was his grit and skill that carried him. We have too many athletic players that have an obvious lack of skill and/or grit.

Yes, GMac had a grit that lacks on the guards here now, but without the athleticism of Carmelo, Josh Pace, Hak, etc... There would be no Championship in 2003.

My question is, can they gather some grit for the tourney season, & turn it on like a switch?

 

[BlackKnight76]

C'mon, I was using a cliche' to make an assertion. Most people don't associate Christians or optimists with suicide, even if a small percentage of them have considered or attempted it.

We might be over-thinking this a tad bit, don'tcha think?

What the hell kind of cliche is that?

 

[Shermthegeneral]

96-97 team was the worst IMO, 19-13, 1-4 vs top 25 and a loss to Eastern Mich... Ouch!