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Symphony Steve

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My 9 year old kept saying during theBoneyard Match... this is like a movie!!!...it’s the greatest match Ive ever seen!!!

And I’ve showed him the best ones.

not sure how the old guard will react, but I liked it and he obviously did.
It was great. And, yes, it was filmed like a movie, including music. Don't think I'd call it a match, though. It's not as if it was done in one, or probably even 50, takes. But at least, for once, some true creativity from WWE.
 

KaiserUEO

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It was great. And, yes, it was filmed like a movie, including music. Don't think I'd call it a match, though. It's not as if it was done in one, or probably even 50, takes. But at least, for once, some true creativity from WWE.
It certainly has got me expecting a good show in the Firefly headliner.
 

jordville

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My 9 year old kept saying during theBoneyard Match... this is like a movie!!!...it’s the greatest match Ive ever seen!!!

And I’ve showed him the best ones.

not sure how the old guard will react, but I liked it and he obviously did.
My 8 year old said the same thing about it being just like a movie!

The Firefly Funhouse... was bizarre to say the least. My son said that was a waste of time and boring.
 

OrangeDW

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So I think that Orton-Wyatt Mania match a few years ago was the worst thing I’ve ever seen and I don’t get the “Broken Matt Hardy” thing at all.

So I probably wouldn’t like the Taker-AJ match I’m guessing?
 

jordville

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So I think that Orton-Wyatt Mania match a few years ago was the worst thing I’ve ever seen and I don’t get the “Broken Matt Hardy” thing at all.

So I probably wouldn’t like the Taker-AJ match I’m guessing?
You definitely wouldn't like the Firefly Funhouse "match" between Cena & Wyatt/Fiend.
 

Shawn91111

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So I think that Orton-Wyatt Mania match a few years ago was the worst thing I’ve ever seen and I don’t get the “Broken Matt Hardy” thing at all.

So I probably wouldn’t like the Taker-AJ match I’m guessing?
Honestly this is the first Mania I have watched in years, only watched because my son is big into wrestling this year. I just didn't get the Taker-AJ match, I thought it was very hokey, but reading a bunch of press on it I feel I am in the minority.
 

KaiserUEO

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My 8 year old said the same thing about it being just like a movie!

The Firefly Funhouse... was bizarre to say the least. My son said that was a waste of time and boring.
we both thought that was good too, my 5 year old who stayed up for it and is a big Cena fan didnt get it, but whatever.

IMO, Vince pulled off the whole the weekend in this difficult time.

if the board goes 100% against me, then i'll know for sure he did it.

the OT sports board, does have a good filter though...
 

Symphony Steve

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we both thought that was good too, my 5 year old who stayed up for it and is a big Cena fan didnt get it, but whatever.

IMO, Vince pulled off the whole the weekend in this difficult time.

if the board goes 100% against me, then i'll know for sure he did it.

the OT sports board, does have a good filter though...
It won't be 100%, but I disagree to a large extent. Yes, the UT-Styles Boneyard production was great. But there wasn't much else that was Wrestlemania-worthy. Owens-Rollins, yes. The problem is that Vince decided to go ahead with WM instead of rescheduling it. Not only will he lose money on what is annually the biggest money-making event of the year, but he has put his wrestlers at risk and has made it less likely that he can cut a good deal with ESPN or other outlets for WM going forward. The decision not to reschedule will, I think, come to be regarded as one of the biggest mistakes Vince has ever made.
 

MSOrange

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It won't be 100%, but I disagree to a large extent. Yes, the UT-Styles Boneyard production was great. But there wasn't much else that was Wrestlemania-worthy. Owens-Rollins, yes. The problem is that Vince decided to go ahead with WM instead of rescheduling it. Not only will he lose money on what is annually the biggest money-making event of the year, but he has put his wrestlers at risk and has made it less likely that he can cut a good deal with ESPN or other outlets for WM going forward. The decision not to reschedule will, I think, come to be regarded as one of the biggest mistakes Vince has ever made.
I didn't watch the show so I can't comment on your first couple sentences. But I agree with everything else except I don't think it necessarily makes it less likely he can cut a good deal going forward. I think people understand this was an one-off thing in very unique circumstances.
 

Symphony Steve

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I didn't watch the show so I can't comment on your first couple sentences. But I agree with everything else except I don't think it necessarily makes it less likely he can cut a good deal going forward. I think people understand this was an one-off thing in very unique circumstances.
When the numbers of those who bought the show come in, and they will be exceedingly low, WWE's bargaining position will be weaker. They were going for a mega-bucks deal. I don't see how such a deal makes sense now, especially since Disney, which owns ESPN, is leaking money right now.
 

MSOrange

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When the numbers of those who bought the show come in, and they will be exceedingly low, WWE's bargaining position will be weaker. They were going for a mega-bucks deal. I don't see how such a deal makes sense now, especially since Disney, which owns ESPN, is leaking money right now.
Oh come on Steve. Every other year Wrestlemania is a guaranteed attraction and you think this one year under very unique circumstances is going to kill that? Sure it's not the best time to negotiate but I just can't see how you can discount 35 years of history. There's a lot of platforms out there besides ESPN.
 

Symphony Steve

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Oh come on Steve. Every other year Wrestlemania is a guaranteed attraction and you think this one year under very unique circumstances is going to kill that? Sure it's not the best time to negotiate but I just can't see how you can discount 35 years of history. There's a lot of platforms out there besides ESPN.
Vince openly talked about how he was gonna strike a deal this year. He couldn't. We're talking solely and specifically about the rights to show WM, not the live event, ticket prices, or merch sales. WWE made the (IMO) disastrous decision to offer it on the network as a means of driving subscriptions. At best, it's been a wash since they took it off PPV. Well, they didn't REALLY take it off PPV, but they openly ridiculed on their shows the idea that people would buy the PPV when they could get it on the network. In fact, most people learned how they could get it for free on the network and then cancel their free trial subscriptions.

WWE's ratings have fallen consistently for years now. They were in a strong position when they negotiated the latest Raw and Smackdown deals, yet the ratings have continued to diminish.

I take your point about this year being different. But I don't see any sort of boost in demand for their product increasing for some time now. We're likely talking about at best a few more months of empty arena matches if they can even FIND a place that will let them tape. The product largely sucks. And, for the supposed 'stars' who were made at WM, including Drew McIntyre and Braun Strowman, they're gonna have to take the baton in the empty arena era.

Finally, keep in mind that we're not merely talking about adding something to WWE, we're talking about largely striking such a deal in lieu of having it on the network. Since WM is, by all measures, the single biggest attraction that the network has, a sharp decline in subscribers is inevitable.

(JEE-zus, this latest screed is proof that I've got too much time on my hands...we've gotta get our fantasy baseball back.)
 

cuse10

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It won't be 100%, but I disagree to a large extent. Yes, the UT-Styles Boneyard production was great. But there wasn't much else that was Wrestlemania-worthy. Owens-Rollins, yes. The problem is that Vince decided to go ahead with WM instead of rescheduling it. Not only will he lose money on what is annually the biggest money-making event of the year, but he has put his wrestlers at risk and has made it less likely that he can cut a good deal with ESPN or other outlets for WM going forward. The decision not to reschedule will, I think, come to be regarded as one of the biggest mistakes Vince has ever made.
They lost money anyway. He tried to recoup some of it via PPV and it's nowhere near what it could have been. He had to rent the space and get sets built among other expenses. Reschedule it to when? If this was over by Summer, SummerSlam wasn't getting pushed back and the event itself has become the second Mania with the runtime and events surrounding it. Wrestlemania Inglewood is going to be a very big deal.

Re: the show being memorable or not, there's a ton of crap in every Mania. The Roman Reigns/HHH main event from a few years ago was so bad and ran so late that people left as the show was going on. You could visibly see the crowd emptying out. What came out of this is that we learned you can have Mania over two nights. Put the card out in advance and sell tickets for separate sessions.
 

Symphony Steve

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They lost money anyway. He tried to recoup some of it via PPV and it's nowhere near what it could have been. He had to rent the space and get sets built among other expenses. Reschedule it to when? If this was over by Summer, SummerSlam wasn't getting pushed back and the event itself has become the second Mania with the runtime and events surrounding it. Wrestlemania Inglewood is going to be a very big deal.

Re: the show being memorable or not, there's a ton of crap in every Mania. The Roman Reigns/HHH main event from a few years ago was so bad and ran so late that people left as the show was going on. You could visibly see the crowd emptying out. What came out of this is that we learned you can have Mania over two nights. Put the card out in advance and sell tickets for separate sessions.
What we saw wasn't Wrestlemania. It was something called Wrestlemania. Without fans, without spectacle, without live wrestling as most matches were edited, with portions being reshot. It was in part, Vince's delay in recognizing the inevitable--that it wasn't gonna take place live in that stadium, that put him in a no-win situation. Had he acted earlier, he likely could have found an alternative date--however tentative it might be. Instead, he took his biggest moneymaker of the year, and turned it into a huge money loser. Yes, he was dealt a bad hand, but he also misplayed it.
 

Knicks411

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I don't think this show will hurt the WWE's bargaining positioning when it comes to trying to sell Mania, or any other PPVs to some other OTT service. This is clearly a one off event (he says, hopefully)

The fact that the entire economy is terrible right now, on the other hand...
 

KaiserUEO

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Good lord you guys are overthinking this.

it was a humanitarian effort, debating the economic side of things is useless.

there is nothing to do...this was something.

Vince tried to help fill a void, you should all be ashamed for criticizing it.

there was some great moments...and some duds, so what??

If he wants he can just take 1 of the other PPVs and call it WrestleMania 37.

The NBA wants us to watch a game of horse from different gyms, and u guys kill an actual match.

didnt expect the debate to go this way...
 

Chip

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Heenan -“ladies and gentlemen! Feast your eyes! Feast your eyes on that man!”...lmao, what the hell? RR ‘93 as Lex Luger poses in mirrors. Gotta be top 3 weirdest segments ever. I’m dying laughing at how ridiculous it is.

* I “watched” this Rumble in ‘93 as a kid - on one of the scrambled channels on cable. You could kinda see but not really, but you could hear. I know some of you know gotta know what I’m talking about. I watched Survivor Series ‘92 that way, as well. Never would’ve dreamed I’d have access to every PPV ever for 10 bucks.
I am a Real American music comes on, crowd goes wild.

Heenan: "This is my 2nd favorite song"

Gorilla: "What's your favorite"

Heenan: "The rest of them are tied"

He was the best.
 

Knicks411

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Good lord you guys are overthinking this.

it was a humanitarian effort, debating the economic side of things is useless.

there is nothing to do...this was something.

Vince tried to help fill a void, you should all be ashamed for criticizing it.

there was some great moments...and some duds, so what??

If he wants he can just take 1 of the other PPVs and call it WrestleMania 37.

The NBA wants us to watch a game of horse from different gyms, and u guys kill an actual match.

didnt expect the debate to go this way...
I agree and I disagree.

The economic stuff, agree, can't make anything of it.

I do think there are legitimate criticisms around whether or not they should even have been running a show period. They did put people at risk and it didnt have to happen. And the reporting indicates Roman Reigns, the guy most at risk, took himself out, as opposed to the company doing it.
 

KaiserUEO

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I agree and I disagree.

The economic stuff, agree, can't make anything of it.

I do think there are legitimate criticisms around whether or not they should even have been running a show period. They did put people at risk and it didnt have to happen. And the reporting indicates Roman Reigns, the guy most at risk, took himself out, as opposed to the company doing it.
Id like to think everyone was quarantined 1st, maybe even together.

mans if they got ‘tested’ the horror, the horror...I’m fine with that too.

Testing people, when they’re already sick...is pretty stupid if you ask me.

testing these guys to go perform a humanitarian act for our quarantined pleasure, is a-ok by me.

Roman dropping out also was fine in my book.

same goes for anyone else’s who asked out.
 

Symphony Steve

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There's a first time for everything. Not when it comes to Vince performing a 'humanitarian' effort, however. He refused to cancel the stadium show, daring the mayor of Tampa Bay to do it for him. He lost a game of chicken, then found himself with no choice precisely because he had painted himself into a corner, like he does with many of his angles.

Whenever WWE performs a 'humanitarian' effort, they make sure that they get maximum pub for it.

They never should have brought Reigns to Orlando, not with his compromised immune system. But they did, and when he dropped out for safety reasons, WWE performed the humanitarian effort of not telling anybody that he was off the show, much less telling people why. Humanitarians? Not so much.
 

Symphony Steve

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According to Bryan Alvarez, they're gonna show the Boneyard match tonight on Raw and the Firefly Funhouse on Smackdown on Friday.
 

KaiserUEO

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There's a first time for everything. Not when it comes to Vince performing a 'humanitarian' effort, however. He refused to cancel the stadium show, daring the mayor of Tampa Bay to do it for him. He lost a game of chicken, then found himself with no choice precisely because he had painted himself into a corner, like he does with many of his angles.

Whenever WWE performs a 'humanitarian' effort, they make sure that they get maximum pub for it.

They never should have brought Reigns to Orlando, not with his compromised immune system. But they did, and when he dropped out for safety reasons, WWE performed the humanitarian effort of not telling anybody that he was off the show, much less telling people why. Humanitarians? Not so much.
find a different word than humanitarian if you’d like.

I don’t care about his economical game of chicken 1st, this whole thing changed by the second a few weeks ago. We had that idiot in NYC and his heath czar TELLING everyone all is well and to go to Chinatown for a party when people were already dying and then they took another week to close the schools.

The BigEast played half a game on a Friday when the rest of the country had shut down.

they lost $$ this weekend, and they would’ve lost less if they didn’t do it.

me and my boys enjoyed it, when we look back at quarantine...we will have WrestleMania 36.

and hopefully the entire NBA in Vegas.

Don’t know where any of you guys live, but here in my little town...we have 212 cases and 18 deaths as of noon.

the old don’t live here, taxes too high and it’s an awesome commuter town, with great schools.

when this is over, it’s gonna be ugly here.

so what I’m saying is...that was a nice thing last night(weekend) and it worked.
 

Symphony Steve

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find a different word than humanitarian if you’d like.

I don’t care about his economical game of chicken 1st, this whole thing changed by the second a few weeks ago. We had that idiot in NYC and his heath czar TELLING everyone all is well and to go to Chinatown for a party when people were already dying and then they took another week to close the schools.
The big East played half a game on a Friday when the rest of the country had shut down.

they lost $$ this weekend, and they would’ve lost less if they didn’t do it.

me and my boys enjoyed it, when we look back at quarantine...we will have WrestleMania 36.

and hopefully the entire NBA in Vegas.

Don’t know where any of you guys live, but here in my little town...we have 212 cases and 18 deaths as of noon.

the old don’t live here, taxes too high and it’s an awesome commuter town, with great schools.

when this is over, it’s gonna be ugly here.

so what I’m saying is...that was a nice thing last night(weekend) and it worked.
I live in a small state-Delaware. 673 cases, 14 deaths so far. I'm taking off work this week b/c it looks like it will be the worst week for new cases, and I have a job where I have to engage with the public. Be safe, everybody.
 

OrangeDW

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Ronda. Out.
I always felt like you could tell the boos bothered her. Even after being in it for a year or whatever, I don’t think she really “gets” wrestling from a fans standpoint.

I don’t think there’s one “outsider” in the world that wouldn’t get a mixed reaction at best if they were heavily pushed. Heck, even almost every single “real” wrestler gets a mixed reaction once they get heavily pushed.
 

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