You're the AD, and Boeheim walks into your office...

[bozophobe]

You need to let JAB coach at least another year because that was promised to the recruits coming in.

After reading some of the articles about why they chose Syracuse, one or two said coach Boeheim wasn’t the hollering monster you see on TV he’s actually a gentleman who knows a hell of a lot about coaching basketball. He just doesn’t have the players he used to and I’m going to change that.

So, some recruits actually believe Boeheim is a great basketball coach and want to be coached by him. Imagine that.

But what about the promises Boeheim makes to recruits next year? And so forth...

 

[jdubs30]

Coaching hires are at the mercy of that cycle. Who’s the hot mid major name? What other programs need a coach?

When Nate Oats was the hot name, we weren’t looking for a coach. Sometimes the timing is just bad.

Right now, there isn’t that big “name” out there that’s hot among the coaching ranks. Duke and UNC stayed in house. Louisville is linked to paying big cash for Pearl

When JB steps down, if the coaching landscape offers no options, we may be forced into a Hop/Red/GMac choice

Pitino is a stud and would put us in a good spot. It buys us time. No one is Saying he’s the guy for the next decade. But there’s no doubt we’d succeed under him and be in a very good place to look for a younger hire when the right one emerges

 

[DilemaCuse]

They’re 17.
They haven’t been there yet.
They say the right things in interviews.
Imagine that!

Here‘s the other thing, about JAB’s judgment of late, and how other recruiters can easily work against us:

Take, for example, JBA. Look at his high school tape. He is/was a rangy, athletic, bouncy perimeter player. Seems to have nice form on his jumper. So, what did we do? On the heels of making the splendid splinter Marek Dolemite into a center, that’s what we did with JBA. Because Marek worked out so well there, I guess. JBA, who was a bench reserve 3 on his high school team was going to come to a power conference and be converted to a center… by an alum who had only ever been a guard.

Quincy G comes in and wants/expects to play some perimeter stuff. Probably, most realistically saw himself as an NBA 3. But with us, he’s a 4. Marek should have been a 3...

Then, add that we play only a zone.

So, why would you go to Syracuse as a high school recruit with options? You’re going to be cast out of your natural position, be coached by a player who only understands your position in theory, learn a defense that doesn’t make you nba-ready, and get zero minutes because the coach’s progeny and pet are going to play 40 regardless of performance/productivity/commitment.
Add to that the fact that he had already committed to retire once, is now 77, and there will be constant banter about when is his next ‘last season.’

Why?

All of that leads to us getting kids in the bottom half of the top 100, and beyond, and then expecting them to coalesce into something that gets us out of the middle of the ACC. I now hear Jerry Seinfeld and Kramer’s horrible Cockney accents: “Not bloody likely!”

This was caused by recruiting misses and Bouramas injuries that had those guys out of position.

You could have even mentioned the mess at PG for years as well

 

[BillSU]

They’re 17.
They haven’t been there yet.
They say the right things in interviews.
Imagine that!

Here‘s the other thing, about JAB’s judgment of late, and how other recruiters can easily work against us:

Take, for example, JBA. Look at his high school tape. He is/was a rangy, athletic, bouncy perimeter player. Seems to have nice form on his jumper. So, what did we do? On the heels of making the splendid splinter Marek Dolemite into a center, that’s what we did with JBA. Because Marek worked out so well there, I guess. JBA, who was a bench reserve 3 on his high school team was going to come to a power conference and be converted to a center… by an alum who had only ever been a guard.

Quincy G comes in and wants/expects to play some perimeter stuff. Probably, most realistically saw himself as an NBA 3. But with us, he’s a 4. Marek should have been a 3...

Then, add that we play only a zone.

So, why would you go to Syracuse as a high school recruit with options? You’re going to be cast out of your natural position, be coached by a player who only understands your position in theory, learn a defense that doesn’t make you nba-ready, and get zero minutes because the coach’s progeny and pet are going to play 40 regardless of performance/productivity/commitment.
Add to that the fact that he had already committed to retire once, is now 77, and there will be constant banter about when is his next ‘last season.’

Why?

All of that leads to us getting kids in the bottom half of the top 100, and beyond, and then expecting them to coalesce into something that gets us out of the middle of the ACC. I now hear Jerry Seinfeld and Kramer’s horrible Cockney accents: “Not bloody likely!”

No bias. I agree with your assessment.

Who are you going to put in to score if you bench BB and JBIII? How about a line up of Joe, Benny, Cole, Symir and Jesse? I was at the Pitt game BB and the team was terrible. Probably one of the worst games I've ever watched an SU team play.

My basic point was, you can't take Boeheim out if the recruits and parents were promised he'd coach them. You can, but I bet the recruits would re - open their recruiting and we can't afford to lose them.

I don't know what to do. The situation is not a good one.

 

[llandz]

It's a delicate situation so I would want to handle it real classy.

I'd ask him to go out for dinner. Somewhere nice. Maybe Applebees.

I'd order for him. Show him who is in charge. I would go all out though, splurge a bit. I'd do the 2 for $22. Order up some chimichangas, maybe get an app - onion rings, extra sauce.

Then, after we got a little bit of a buzz, finished our food, we'd retire to comfier confines - Paradise Found. We could have some cocktails, enjoy some dancing - and then, I'd let him walk.

He'd have the best night of his life, and he leaves on a high note. Everyone wins.

If I remember correctly, JB doesn't drink..So scrap this one.

 

[EnviroSciGuy]

I ask him for Rick Pitino’s cell number and politely tell him to leave

Rick. Still. Has it.

 

[MSOrange]

I've always considered myself a bit of a softie. But I guess age has gotten to me because compared to a few in this thread, I'm a hard ass.

 

[BillSU]

Rick. Still. Has it.

If you like him.

He is a winner.

Pitino is the first coach in to win NCAA national championships at two schools. His greatest success came at Kentucky and Louisville where he reached 6 Final Fours and won the two national titles. He is also the first coach to take three schools to the Final Four.

And, the messes he was involved in goes on all over.

Everything's in place. A Dome which will hold 35,000 for BB and a prime BB conference.

The question I have is will the SU board of trustees look at his past transgressions and say are you kidding?

But, I think coaches are aware of everything that goes on in their programs, everything. If somebody wrote a paper for a player, Jim didn't want to get caught but he did. 101 wins vacated are you kidding me? The NCAA is an antiquated baloney eater.

So, Wildhack has to make up his mind. Does JB get two more, three more years? I think he gets as many as he wants. Say what you want but he is the program and knows in his heart that he can still coach and make kids better OR NOT. Favor his kids, a once in a lifetime opp, yes, but one of the kids when he's on can shoot the lights out. Give JB a break.

You will have the tea totalers on one side and the realists on the other. You want to WIN, bring in Pitino. You want to shoot threes, bring in Gerry, which he doesn't do any more - we would need him to win not show players how to shoot threes though he would. Make up your mind.

You are going to have many who will throw up their arms if Pitino does show up and others who will welcome the man in the custom made / tailored suit with ties to SU ready to recruit 5 stars and WIN.

Who knows what will happen? I guess only the Shadow knows. For me, I am tired of all the debate.

Do something, bring in a winner, it may take two to three years till JB sees he's not helping the situation but it has to happen, difficult, maybe, but a decision has to made.

 

[Alsacs]

Boeh

He is a winner.

And, the messes he was involved in goes on all over.

With the NIL in force it's hard to make a case against hiring him. He's happy at Iona and made winners out of them and Boston U, Providence, Kentucky, Louisville, and Iona.

Everythings in place. A Dome which will hold 35,000 for BB and a prime BB conference.

The question I have is will the SU board of trustees look at his past transgressions and say are you kidding?

But, I think coaches are aware of everything that goes on in their programs, everything. If somebody wrote a paper for a player, Jim didn't want to get caught but he did. 101 wins vacated are you kidding me? The NCAA is an antiquated baloney eater.

Pitino knew about the s e xual favors for recruits, so what, you think that doesn't go on elsewhere?

So, Wildhack has to make up his mind. Does JB get two more, three more years? I think he gets as many as he wants. Say what you want but he is the program and knows in his heart that he can still coach and make kids better OR NOT. Favor his kids, a once in a lifetime opp, yes, but one of the kids when he's on can shoot the lights out. Give JB a break.

You will have the tea totalers on one side and the realists on the other. You want to WIN, bring in Pitino. You want to shoot threes, bring in Gerry, which he doesn't do any more - we would need him to win not show players how to shoot threes though he would. Make up your mind.

You are going to have many who will throw up their arms if Pitino does show up and others who will welcome the man in the custom made / tailored suit with ties to SU ready to recruit 5 stars and WIN.

Who knows what will happen? I guess only the Shadow knows. For me, I am tired of all the debate.

Do something, bring in a winner, it may take two to three years till JB sees he's not helping the situation but it has to happen, difficult, maybe, but a decision has to made.

Boeheim is 77. Letting him cosch 2-3 more years just because he wants and after what has happened would be negligence.

If JB wants to continue coaching go do what Calhoun did.
He isn’t making players better, he is playing short rotations, and not building rosters capable of competing for conference titles never mind National titles.

We are now a plucky underdog. The guy shouldn’t as long as he wants.

 

[UpstateSM]

Rick. Still. Has it.

The last time I tried to speak something into existence on this website Woody transferred within 48 hours so this is already going better

 

[BillSU]

Boeh

Boeheim is 77. Letting him cosch 2-3 more years just because he wants and after what has happened would be negligence.

If JB wants to continue coaching go do what Calhoun did.
He isn’t making players better, he is playing short rotations, and not building rosters capable of competing for conference titles never mind National titles.

We are now a plucky underdog. The guy shouldn’t as long as he wants.

Alsacs: If you noticed, I said OR NOT making players better and I think you forgot the word coach in your last line. I don't think he should coach as long as he wants either but I'm not Wildhack.

 

[Zelda Zonk]

No bias. I agree with your assessment.

Who are you going to put in to score if you bench BB and JBIII? How about a line up of Joe, Benny, Cole, Symir and Jesse? I was at the Pitt game BB and the team was terrible. Probably one of the worst games I've ever watched an SU team play.

My basic point was, you can't take Boeheim out if the recruits and parents were promised he'd coach them. You can, but I bet the recruits would re - open their recruiting and we can't afford to lose them.

I don't know what to do. The situation is not a good one.

I've never said anything about benching Buddy or Jimmy. Ever. I don't think...

In fact, i've questioned the people who seem to believe that Benny represents some sort of upgrade over Jimmy, as Benny has not been good. I have said that i think Benny needs more of an opportunity, and that Jimmy should have fewer minutes. But, that's the extent of it. Nothing in my post above is really referencing that stuff, though.

Re: your point that the recruits were 'promised' JAB and might transfer if JAB were retired before they got here... well, that's the chance you take. I personally am not worried about that. Even if we have to take one step back in order to take one or two forward, that's just the way the cookie crumbles. And if we actually make a positive—as opposed to a lateral—change, those same kids might either be more energized, or we get better ones.

The situation is not a good one. Agreed.

 

[Dave]

We're pretty awful now. You're willing to wait for irrelevance, like we went through for so many years with football? You won't be satisfied until we're the butt of jokes by the national media?

I simply do not see it happening. This lineup mix has not worked out. The deep shooters and the development of Edward’s has not overcome the deficiencies. Please explain to me how many of you predicted this? In fact if Buddy, Cole, and Joe were shooting 43 percent how would we be doing? If Buddy were the Buddy of the last tournament what kind of team would we be? There is no sport which provides as many variables as basketball with respect to chemistry. Our current coach has taken second tier recruiting and shaped system to fit talent more successfully than anyone who comes to my mind. No, it isn’t like the teams and coaches who have the luxury of approaching recruiting like a cafeteria and picking the best to fit their chosen system. Boeheim REVOLUTIONIZED the game with his zone. He created the expectations we are holding him up to, he created the product we have enjoyed so much for so long. We have a great recruiting class coming in. I want to see what a MASTER can do with them and whoever comes back. Many in our fan base are freaking embarrassing. Slick Rick Pitino? Are you joking? The hard ones for Hopkins? Are you kidding? We have been gifted with greatness. Por lamor de Santo Pietro! This man goes on his own terms when he says. Loyalty a mile wide and a fraction deep is what I see. Shame.

 

[Dave]

I've never said anything about benching Buddy or Jimmy. Ever. I don't think...

In fact, i've questioned the people who seem to believe that Benny represents some sort of upgrade over Jimmy, as Benny has not been good. I have said that i think Benny needs more of an opportunity, and that Jimmy should have fewer minutes. But, that's the extent of it. Nothing in my post above is really referencing that stuff, though.

Re: your point that the recruits were 'promised' JAB and might transfer if JAB were retired before they got here... well, that's the chance you take. I personally am not worried about that. Even if we have to take one step back in order to take one or two forward, that's just the way the cookie crumbles. And if we actually make a positive—as opposed to a lateral—change, those same kids might either be more energized, or we get better ones.

The situation is not a good one. Agreed.

Or disintegrate into an experiment

 

[albanycuse]

and asks you for a chance (3-5 years) to build this back up and then off to retirement he goes.

Do you give it to him?

No, once he started playing favorites and not the best player how could it ever go well.

 

[Dave]

With all due respect... I'm never going to understand this.

The man has a job. It's a career. It's work.

In any industry, a person has to perform, or they get put aside in favor of someone else who can perform. Because the program is more important than the individual. This isn't the Supreme Court—there are no lifetime appointments. He's a basketball coach. All this nonsense about how he built the program and it belongs to him and it's his to do with as he sees fit... insanity. He works for the University. He wasn't some entrepreneur who created a business and can therefore burn it to the ground with impunity. He works for the school. And the school has a responsibility to do what's best for the school and all who support the school. JAB, at this point, is not that.

Far too much sentimentality being expressed here. He is owed a paycheck, for the work he does, and affection/reverence/respect from fans as the individual fan sees fit. He's not owed another year. The "another year" was this one. And the last one. And the one before that. All of the years since he was supposed to have retired the last time—those were all gifts. Having his two-star son play 35 minutes—that's another gift. One more year? What's going to change?

Even suggesting that it be a year-to-year decision, based on the results of the most recent season... that's just more limbo. This program doesn't need more limbo. It needs a clear path.

A pretty broad brush you paint with. A housepainter is a job. The guy who painted the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel was doing a job too. Yeah. As many years as he wants before we cast our chances into the abyss.

 

[Shrmdougluvr]

NSFW Language

 

[CuseFaninVT]

Rick. Still. Has it.

Your dedication is impressive

 

[Zelda Zonk]

I simply do not see it happening. This lineup mix has not worked out. The deep shooters and the development of Edward’s has not overcome the deficiencies. Please explain to me how many of you predicted this? In fact if Buddy, Cole, and Joe were shooting 43 percent how would we be doing? If Buddy were the Buddy of the last tournament what kind of team would we be? There is no sport which provides as many variables as basketball with respect to chemistry. Our current coach has taken second tier recruiting and shaped system to fit talent more successfully than anyone who comes to my mind. No, it isn’t like the teams and coaches who have the luxury of approaching recruiting like a cafeteria and picking the best to fit their chosen system. Boeheim REVOLUTIONIZED the game with his zone. He created the expectations we are holding him up to, he created the product we have enjoyed so much for so long. We have a great recruiting class coming in. I want to see what a MASTER can do with them and whoever comes back. Many in our fan base are freaking embarrassing. Slick Rick Pitino? Are you joking? The hard ones for Hopkins? Are you kidding? We have been gifted with greatness. Por lamor de Santo Pietro! This man goes on his own terms when he says. Loyalty a mile wide and a fraction deep is what I see. Shame.

The current coach is responsible for the “second tier recruiting.” I wouldn’t even call it second tier, though. We used to have second tier.… We used to have first tier in the Big East. Those days are long gone.

How do you ”revolutionize the game” when no one else is adopting the same philosophy? How many zone-exclusive teams are there?

I would also suggest he didn’t invent the zone. And one championship in 50 years isn’t really that spectacular. We have twice as many probations.

Crediting him for creating all the standards might be fair, except he didn’t do it alone. I’m gonna go out on a limb and suggest that the Dome and 35k has been a significant recruiting tool. JAB just happened to rise alongside it.

Blind loyalty always gets you hurt. Always.

 

[Dave]

The current coach is responsible for the “second tier recruiting.” I wouldn’t even call it second tier, though. We used to have second tier.… We used to have first tier in the Big East. Those days are long gone.

How do you ”revolutionize the game” when no one else is adopting the same philosophy? How many zone-exclusive teams are there?

I would also suggest he didn’t invent the zone. And one championship in 50 years isn’t really that spectacular. We have twice as many probations.

Crediting him for creating all the standards might be fair, except he didn’t do it alone. I’m gonna go out on a limb and suggest that the Dome and 35k has been a significant recruiting tool. JAB just happened to rise alongside it.

Blind loyalty always gets you hurt. Always.

Lack of loyalty gets you hurt, always. Yes, the Dome contributed greatly. We have NEVER recruited with the best. But we have played with the best. Views of recruiting are revisionist. Boeheims legacy was created with Pearl and Owens. It was also created with many, many second choices and players who were turned down at other programs. Exclusive zone? I don’t care for it myself. He is a stubborn man. Revolutionary? “You can’t win big games playing zone. Good teams exploit it easily.” That was a basketball truism. All you have to do is …. and it was true. Yet he created this thing which adapted and gave opportunity and took them away in the blink of an eye. He punished teams for passing into the blocks and the corners. Nobody says you can’t win playing zone anymore. So you’ve forgotten. He is one of the true greats in the game. Others have ridden a wave, had ups and downs, petered out, etc. you suggest and believe that is what has happened to him. I disagree. I find your lack of sentimentality unfortunate. But I get it. You might be right. I don’t believe it. History and the man himself suggest otherwise. Mostly, being a fan means riding through the rough times which this base has little experience with. Yes, it means looking to maintain and improve. However, we have an IDENTITY. I think you said you don’t understand my position. I understand yours. I believe forcing this great man to walk the plank besmirches our identity. I believe it is a black eye. Bring someone else in. Maybe it’ll work. Maybe Pitino and the hookers. Maybe in five years we’re Pitt.

 

[EnviroSciGuy]

Your dedication is impressive

Makes me feel dirty.

 

[two3zone]

Makes me feel dirty.

 

[kcsu]

Its Gmac