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Zone

Orangezoo

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Turning on the UCLA game and they are playing 2-3 almost exclusively. Its incredible how many more teams are using it as a base defense now. I think that works to our advantage. Teams will have seen more zone but crappy zones quite often. Much like good mtm teams stymie good mtm offenses because of the difference in quality.
 
Watching the Baylor game last night. They played a lot of zone, but it looked very poor compared to ours.

Baylor was playing like a 1-2-2 from halfcourt until the top the key then switching back to a 2-3.
 
I wonder if it really is because of the changes in officiating? Are teams using more zone to prevent their players from getting into foul trouble?
 
Turning on the UCLA game and they are playing 2-3 almost exclusively. Its incredible how many more teams are using it as a base defense now. I think that works to our advantage. Teams will have seen more zone but crappy zones quite often. Much like good mtm teams stymie good mtm offenses because of the difference in quality.

Good m2m teams usually do it with better athletes (just IMHO, of course). Zone D, when played well, usually allows a.) smaller, b.) smarter, c.) less athletic, or d.) all of the above teams to compete with better athletes. Up to a point, anyway. Gonzaga, for example, plays a lot of zone, but they inevitably get "out-athleted."

I picked up a copy of JB's how to play zone D, and used it as my base D. Almost overnight my smaller & faster kids/teams took a lot of the vertical away from bigger teams, and made them play more horizontal, and we were a lot more effective doing that.

Effective Zone D is virtually an ideology. In JB's vid he spent time talking about the importance of sticking with it, ie: "If you're the type of coach who switches back to man because someone dropped some 3's on you, you're not a zone coach." So, coaches who play some zone just to mix up the looks are not likely to be playing zone at crunch time, and I'd expect to see that in the tourney.
 
it's used by teams that have suspect personnel. this group of orange might be the deepest ever. no coach in the world has ever had a Patterson or a Roberson that can't make the court
 
I assume you're kidding right? If on the off chance you're not, I'm referring to calling all really as fouls.

No, I'm serious. I ref in FIBA ball. I don't get to see a lot of NCAA games.
 
if you watched SU play in the '80s about the only time JB went zone was to protect a big man in foul trouble.
 
I don't really see how it's an advantage to us that more teams are playing it. Teams are going to start preparing for it more than they have been in the past; and while ours is on a different level than everyone elses', more preparation for going against a zone in general will make it a little easier on teams when they start preparing for us.
 
Maybe its not but so far teams supposedly comfortable with zones havent attacked it all that well. Sure some have hit a lot of outside shots but at the expense of a lot of turnovers.
 
All the touch fouls that are being called. Are they influencing the use of zone?

I'd suggest you're trying too hard to see something, or make a connection, that's not there. You're suggesting all refs officiate the same way, or call fouls for the same reasons? Or that all coaches play zone defense for the same reason? Either way, since I don't get ESPN, I can't really say I've seen what you're talking about this year. But I can tell you, from years of officiating, this: about 20-odd years ago, the philosophy entered basketball, generally everywhere, that the "defense must be allowed to play, too."

Now, in the short term, it took a while for officials to incorporate that into their game. While this was building in, it led to a lot of rough play and inconsistent officiating. And really, much of basketball in North America was more physical in part because of this. Today (the last few years, actually), however, the pendulum is swinging back the other way, with more of a "get the hands off the cutters," and "protect the shooter" focus. And a three man crew sees a lot more than the old two-man style we all grew up with.

Also consider that what you see on TV, or from a few rows up in the gym, is quite different from what the refs see at eye-level.

In a quiet gym you can handle a lot with your voice, especially off-ball. But in a large, loud and crowded gym, all you can really do is call the fouls because that's really the only thing the players/coaches will respond to. Unfortunately, every time the "pendulum swings" it does lead to inconsistency. Change takes time, and a lot of coaches who don't like to change or adjust, don't coach players into incorporating the same mindset in their game. You get a lot of players, then, who think it was just a bad call, or that the ref guessed wrong, and it's not their problem, it just "bad refs."
 
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Turning on the UCLA game and they are playing 2-3 almost exclusively. Its incredible how many more teams are using it as a base defense now. I think that works to our advantage. Teams will have seen more zone but crappy zones quite often. Much like good mtm teams stymie good mtm offenses because of the difference in quality.

Nobody knows how to play man to man when you aren't allowed to put your hands all over the guy with the ball, maul cutters, and ride ball handlers.

I think we'll see much, much more zone in the coming years if they stick to calling the game so much tighter.
 
it's used by teams that have suspect personnel. this group of orange might be the deepest ever. no coach in the world has ever had a Patterson or a Roberson that can't make the court

You have never seen Ron Patterson play ball enough to know if he's any good. You just picked the name of some young player that isn't playing and claimed he's really good.

Admit it.
 
Baylor was playing like a 1-2-2 from halfcourt until the top the key then switching back to a 2-3.

Baylor played a stay in the paint to double post guys, clog the lane against penetration and protect the glass zone. Basically if you can beat us from 3 do it.
 
I wonder if it really is because of the changes in officiating? Are teams using more zone to prevent their players from getting into foul trouble?


It seems that the officiating has been inconsistent this year. Some games the new hand checking, contact, charge rules etc have been emphasized and other games it doesn't seem to be called at all (like the Kentucky-Baylor game). The new rules would seem to favor the dribble-drive offenses (like Kentucky, Louisville) and penalize man -to -man pressure defenses. It sure appears that many coaches are employing zone defenses more than ever to limit dribble drive penetration and the foul calls that hand checking and body contact the new rules were targeted to eliminate. Heck even man-to-man Duke tried playing zone to slow down Kansas' penetration - tougher to play defense if you've relied heavily on hand checking, charges etc in your defense and refs start calling it.
 
I don't really see how it's an advantage to us that more teams are playing it. Teams are going to start preparing for it more than they have been in the past; and while ours is on a different level than everyone elses', more preparation for going against a zone in general will make it a little easier on teams when they start preparing for us.


Obviously it's going to be a bigger advantage if they have never seen one than if they've seen one, even if it's a bad one.
 
Obviously it's going to be a bigger advantage if they have never seen one than if they've seen one, even if it's a bad one.

I respectfully disagree. A bad zone can be beat without a zone offense. They can still use man to man principles on offense against a bad zone. UK did this last night. When Baylor did a better job in their zone UK was clueless. The SU zone is not alike any other zone in how its played due to both personnel and in how it is adjusted accordingly much like you would adjust mtm schemes. So having other teams play against zone all the time and then find you can't beat the SU zone that way creates issues for them.

Also on the flip side its used so much more now anyways that a team completely green to a zone defense is hard to find.
 
You have never seen Ron Patterson play ball enough to know if he's any good. You just picked the name of some young player that isn't playing and claimed he's really good.

Admit it.
bull ive seen him more coming into the season than boeheim. secondly I saw melo for ten minutes and knew more about him than his coach.
 
bull ive seen him more coming into the season than boeheim. secondly I saw melo for ten minutes and knew more about him than his coach.

Yeah because JB didn't start Melo from day one and feature him enough that he scored 27 in his college debut at MSG...:bang::blah:
 
suppose flip side of the coin also is that these teams that play "crappy zones" have the flexibility to switch up to decent man2man at any time they see fit. an option unfortunately we don't share. it's either zone or trunk monkey for the cuse.
 

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