Future Campus Framework Presentation...

[JeremyCuse]

Syracuse has the Armory area, which draws people to that area. But the Marshall area could use a facelift and some better shopping, restaurants and bars. That's why I question turning the Sheraton into dorms down the road. It's the only place in that area with any class.

Sheraton isn't going anywhere. There putting in millions for upgrades to there banquet/wedding reception areas and redoing pretty much that entrire floor.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

Because it will suck. Syracuse has proven over and over again that when it comes to things like this the logistics never work out. It sounds great in theory but as you noted how are you going to get 35-40K people over to the stadium? Are we going to have a fleet of buses that are used 30 times a year? Really hope the chancellor feels this out before going forward without taking everything into consideration.

How do they do it now?

 

[JeremyCuse]

I'd be curious to know how many parking spots there actually are near the Dome. Not parking garage spaces, but just surface lot parking spaces. And only lots owned by SU. I'd bet at this point that the number is surprisingly low.

Very low, to be honest when SU had more of them I thought they were completely underutilized. Can't tell you how many more people I know would go to games/events at the dome if the parking situation was a little bit better. They lost the huge RV lot when they put in the new Law dorm which I think everyone understood was necessary ditto for the upper lot across from the dome with the actual law building. The problem is right now your down to three lots 2 of which aren't even full lots the upper west lot behind the law dorm and Standart lot both have lost about a quarter to half there size. The fine lot is really the last full lot in that area that remains untouched. Now of course SU did clear out those terrible houses across from the fine lot and that whole area was supposed to be another parking lot. Unfortunately as expected what was supposed to be a 1 year project is now on year 3 and wrapped up in legal issues so now we have a chain fenced overgrowth eye sore. Thats why SU saying "dont worry we know what were doing" is absoutely terrifying because they have shown many times in the past they don't.

 

[JeremyCuse]

How do they do it now?

They don't. The shuttles from Manely would be a 1/4th of the scale of what there talking about in this project ( one that I doubt actually ever comes to full fruition by the way) if they got rid of all the nearby parking spaces. Parking at Manley is a nightmare I did it once for bball never again.

 

[jr4750]

Sheraton isn't going anywhere. There putting in millions for upgrades to there banquet/wedding reception areas and redoing pretty much that entrire floor.

Strange. The dean was fairly adamant that it would become a dorm in do course. Can understand why they would be dumping money into at this point. Goes completely against the philosophy of only moving on projects that fit into the master framework.

 

[JeremyCuse]

Strange. The dean was fairly adamant that it would become a dorm in do course. Can understand why they would be dumping money into at this point. Goes completely against the philosophy of only moving on projects that fit into the master framework.

Agreed, which is why I found that comment so confusing. I ran into the event coordinator this spring as I had my wedding at the Sheraton last year and he was telling me about all the renovations that are planned for 2016 and that they are re-doing pretty much that entire floor. I am assuming at minimum were talking a few million dollars if not tens of millions depending on the scope. Things can always change but as you noted I find it hard to believe there going to spend that much money and then a year or two later bulldoze the place especially when the money is coming from the Sheration corporation for the upgrades. I don't see the Sheration making that kind of expenditure without guarantees about the viability of the hotel for a lot longer then 5-6 years.

 

[xc84]

They don't. The shuttles from Manely would be a 1/4th of the scale of what there talking about in this project ( one that I doubt actually ever comes to full fruition by the way) if they got rid of all the nearby parking spaces. Parking at Manley is a nightmare I did it once for bball never again.

I use a permit lot about 1/2 mile from the dome. I'll likely still use it. "I have been to many stadiums where "adjacent" lots are still so large you could still be walking a 1/4 mile + to get in. And many have no adjacent lots.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

They don't. The shuttles from Manely would be a 1/4th of the scale of what there talking about in this project ( one that I doubt actually ever comes to full fruition by the way) if they got rid of all the nearby parking spaces. Parking at Manley is a nightmare I did it once for bball never again.

Assuming a crowd of 45,000 people, how many currently walk up to the Dome, and how many take shuttles from Manley/Skytop now?

If they eliminate 1000 West Campus parking spots and move them to South Campus, it's not that big a bump.

If they ban passenger cars on campus, they can have dedicated bus lanes.

Or people will have to adjust. You won't be able to leave your tailgate at 12:15 for a 12:30 game anymore.

 

[cuseguy]

Strange. The dean was fairly adamant that it would become a dorm in do course. Can understand why they would be dumping money into at this point. Goes completely against the philosophy of only moving on projects that fit into the master framework.

It's a 25 year plan. Maybe that doesn't happen for 10 years or more.

 

[xc84]

Assuming a crowd of 45,000 people, how many currently walk up to the Dome, and how many take shuttles from Manley/Skytop now?

If they eliminate 1000 West Campus parking spots and move them to South Campus, it's not that big a bump.

If they ban passenger cars on campus, they can have dedicated bus lanes.

Or people will have to adjust. You won't be able to leave your tailgate at 12:15 for a 12:30 game anymore.

And just maybe... the school understand that the shuttles need to be good ones.

 

[Cuseman78]

Assuming a crowd of 45,000 people, how many currently walk up to the Dome, and how many take shuttles from Manley/Skytop now?

If they eliminate 1000 West Campus parking spots and move them to South Campus, it's not that big a bump.

If they ban passenger cars on campus, they can have dedicated bus lanes.

Or people will have to adjust. You won't be able to leave your tailgate at 12:15 for a 12:30 game anymore.

I've tailgated/parked at Skytop multiple times for football games and found the system rather efficient (for the most part). I would assume the addition of a thousand or two more people wouldn't require much of a tweak at all.

 

[OttoMets]

Assuming a crowd of 45,000 people, how many currently walk up to the Dome, and how many take shuttles from Manley/Skytop now?

If they eliminate 1000 West Campus parking spots and move them to South Campus, it's not that big a bump.

If they ban passenger cars on campus, they can have dedicated bus lanes.

Or people will have to adjust. You won't be able to leave your tailgate at 12:15 for a 12:30 game anymore.

I'd be curious to know how many parking spots there actually are near the Dome. Not parking garage spaces, but just surface lot parking spaces. And only lots owned by SU. I'd bet at this point that the number is surprisingly low.

I can't find the exact number, but I think there are about 2,700 total spots on West Campus (this counts the Irving garage). The city approved SU's 2011 request to expand the PID on the condition that it maintain that number of spaces in the neighborhood; as it's built out, though, most of those spaces will be in garages.

I'd add that anyone who wants uncovered parking near the Dome should lobby SU and the city to free up current on-street spaces and maintain or add on-street spots as a part of street reconstruction (see what they did last summer with the Henry repaving by Fine? the street is three lanes wide but the city has restricted the parking lane with paint - no good for anyone, except SU).

 

[JeremyCuse]

I use a permit lot about 1/2 mile from the dome. I'll likely still use it. "Nre so large you could still be walking a 1/4 mile + to get in.

Should that plan ever come to fruition, private lots like that will become gold mines. The people who own them will be printing money.

 

[JeremyCuse]

Assuming a crowd of 45,000 people, how many currently walk up to the Dome, and how many take shuttles from Manley/Skytop now?

If they eliminate 1000 West Campus parking spots and move them to South Campus, it's not that big a bump.

If they ban passenger cars on campus, they can have dedicated bus lanes.

Or people will have to adjust. You won't be able to leave your tailgate at 12:15 for a 12:30 game anymore.

If were counting all the non SU parking garages in the immediate area id say its a lot more then you think. Between the Crouse garage, the other medical garage, the VA garage, the other former public garage which SU now leases and the permit lots your talking a big bump. Fine lot has been packing them in this year.

In regards to the tailgates most of the time having to leave 15 minutes prior to kick is necessity as it take a while to clean up and break everything down. Perhaps if more tailgaters stayed to help.....

 

[cuseguy]

They're still going to need parking for the law dorm. Can't see how they can eliminate all of the surface parking in that area.

 

[JeremyCuse]

They're still going to need parking for the law dorm. Can't see how they can eliminate all of the surface parking in that area.

Bingo. To make that area car free is impossible.

 

[cuseguy]

Bingo. To make that area car free is impossible.

They also just put a lot of money into redoing the Fine lot. If they were planning on ripping it up in a year or two, I doubt they would have did that. But, than again, this is Syracuse.

 

[OttoMets]

They also just put a lot of money into redoing the Fine lot. If they were planning on ripping it up in a year or two, I doubt they would have did that. But, than again, this is Syracuse.

Parking lots need routine maintenance and reconstruction, regardless of future plans. And I don't think there's any talk of building on the Fine Lot in a year or two or five.

 

[dollarbill44]

Can you point out examples of some of these that the government identified and put out RFPs not funded by bonds or taxes? If not funded by taxes or munis, why is the government even involved and who pays?

A bit of a hijack here, so I apologize in advance: but there are too many examples outside of the U.S. to list here. Keep in mind that there are many ways to skin this cat. A typical way these projects work is that the government identifies the project, for example, a new toll bridge that needs to be built over a river because the existing one is crumbling. The state puts out the parameters of the project: how many lanes, length of bridge, any exits, how much volume it needs to be able to handle during peak periods, how long is the concession period (how long the winning bidder needs to maintain the bridge), etc. Developer groups are then invited to bid on the project. These groups are comprised of equity partners, lenders, engineering firms, contractors, consultants and anybody else they feel they need. Their bids are typically for the cost to complete the project and how much they will need in annual payments from the government to recoup the cost of the build, cost to maintain the bridge, repayment of debt and a return on equity. The lowest qualifying bid is usually awarded the project. The government can operate a toll booth to generate revenue or they can use tax revenues or refinance with bonds, however they want to do it. The construction is funded via equity and bank loans typically, with longer term financing (usually private bonds or long-term loans from banks or life insurance companies or pension funds) that takes out the shorter-term construction loans. Often times, there are completion payments made by the government when milestones are met to reduce the periodic payments. In the U.S. there is usually federal funding available as well under the TIFIA program. The bridge will always be owned by the government.

The old model for public-private bridges and roads was for the winning bidder to get repaid from toll revenues, however, lenders are not usually willing to accept traffic volume risk anymore after some big failures, Indiana Toll Road, San Diego Expressway, etc. Availability payments are typically how these are repaid now, where the group gets paid a set amount as long as the project is maintained in accordance with agreed upon metrics.

Canada has been rebuilding and modernizing their whole country over the last 10 years using this model. It has been going on even longer in Europe and Asia, but Canada is now the global leader and has the most efficient model. I can give dozens, if not hundreds of examples globally where this model has been successful. Thankfully, there are many U.S. states that are embracing this philosophy now, with VA, MD, TX, FL, CO and to a growing extent, CA. It really is the best way to keep a country modern and economically relevant.

And to the poster who asked how a high-speed rail line enhances national security, it does so through enhancing the country's economy. A stable, healthy economy is more relevant for national security than a strong military. It's not always about guns and bullets.

As for all of the issues with SU's plan that people have presented here, there are always solutions if there are creative people and a real willingness of the people of CNY/Syracuse (and financial ability) to carry them out. M street probably needs an overhaul. The City probably needs to have exceptions to food and alcohol permits in the M St zone and SU needs to back off a little with their resistance. If Dome parking is removed, there needs to be more parking put in somewhere else with a realistic plan to get people from their cars to the Dome with minimal hassle. Maybe that means more shuttles and more pickup zones around the Dome than just the east end of the Quad that shuttle to a new parking area on the west side of campus/downtown, I don't know. But it should be adequately addressed and it doesn't necessarily seems to be at this point. I don't think it's wise of SU to punt the issue down the road - alternatives should be worked out now. But, I'm excited about the potential of all of this.

 

[OttoMets]

A bit of a hijack here, so I apologize in advance: but there are too many examples outside of the U.S. to list here. ...

Here's an American example: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/12/20/AR2007122002733.html

Denver's Metro expansion is a P3, also.

 

[dollarbill44]

Here's an American example: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/12/20/AR2007122002733.html

Denver's Metro expansion is a P3, also.

There are several within the U.S. that have been P3 projects in recent years. One of the major difficulties in the U.S. is the political climate. Just look at the Gordie Howe Bridge that is finally going to happen linking Detroit and Windsor. There is also an entrenched distrust by Americans that someone other than the government will be in control of their public goods ("I don't want no Spanish company owning our roads and paying European banks with our tolls. This is 'Murica").

 

[FrancoPizza]

Could they not just build a single 50-story parking garage to free up the space?

 

[Toga]

Could they not just build a single 50-story parking garage to free up the space?

Chi Town

 

[OttoMets]

Parking lots need routine maintenance and reconstruction, regardless of future plans. And I don't think there's any talk of building on the Fine Lot in a year or two or five.

Also, I'm still skeptical that this lot will ever be built on.

The master plan's a great piece of work - better than anything SU's done since the '20s. But these build-outs rarely come to fruition. It's possible that they'll implement a few projects, say a million square feet in a few different phases working from campus to the west and north, and Fine never gets touched and Syverud moves on in 2025 and is replaced by someone with different priorities.

 

[DoubleDee]

Could they not just build a single 50-story parking garage to free up the space?

That could be right next door to the dome, and I'd still park for free and walk. Imagine the traffic coming out of that.