105 Wins & 73 Losses

[AZOrange]

So...

JB's lying.

Huerter's lying.

The Post-Standard is lying.

Don’t bother...

 

[OttoMets]

Braswell has played with and against walkons hard to judge

True.

But any kid that lanky who puts the ball on the floor as confidently as he has is someone to watch. From the little I've seen, he plays like a kid who grew up as a guard and grew into a forward. Much more Owens/Anthony than Southerland. (NB - it should be obvious that I'm comparing style of play and not potential production.)

 

[Alsacs]

Don’t bother...

You are awesome. Don’t bother when what is said is factually incomplete. Good job counselor have a good day.

 

[AZOrange]

True.

But any kid that lanky who puts the ball on the floor as confidently as he has is someone to watch. From the little I've seen, he plays like a kid who grew up as a guard and grew into a forward. Much more Owens/Anthony than Southerland. (NB - it should be obvious that I'm comparing style of play and not potential production.)

I’m not saying he won’t be good. I like what you like. But getting run against RJ Barrett is totally different. My guess is he’d be persona non grata out there.

 

[AZOrange]

Watched him tonight going into it thinking the same about him being just a smaller version of buddy that is not a good conaprison... this kid has a very good handle and can create his own shot even with bigger defenders on him... don’t know what he turns out to be in the end but the smaller buddy is a lazy take we make because of there shooting

He’s a lot like Jimmer honestly. You can see the influence.

 

[moqui]

How'd this not get a 'like'? It's an important point that has to be addressed if you're insistent that sanctions were crippling.

the scholarship reductions were not the only penalty nor the most severe

 

[orangecuse]

So...

JB's lying.

Huerter's lying.

The Post-Standard is lying.

I'm curious as to what you think Huerter was lying about? From the article you cited, he said he didn't agree with the premise that playing in Syracuse would've been a sure thing, and not fair to assume.

Huerter also said he didn't agree with the premise that playing in Syracuse would have been a sure-thing if the Orange had another scholarship, only that the Orange would have been another enticing option.

"I don't know if that's fair (to assume)," Huerter said. "Obviously it's the closest place. I didn't go down the same road I went down with others. I don't think it would have changed anything."

 

[SWC75]

Just updating myself on this thread, (the last 3 pages), I've seen posters say that we are "stuck in mediocrity", that "a lot of that's been bad more than good" and "What did we have, 7 guys and 2 or 3 were injured? I mean, I'm tired of excuses. That's just terrible roster management. Injuries happen, but you should still have enough bodies to field a team".

Mediocrity means average, a .500 team. we had our last .500 team in 1969-70. 105-73 is not mediocrity. The issue is: it's not elite and we think of ourselves as elite. There has been more good than bad in that stretch, just not as much more as we are used to. And last year we fielded a Sweet 16 team, one that might have been an Elite 8 team if the refs hadn't put Dolezaj in foul trouble. It just wasn't a powerhouse team, which we would like be again.

Overstating things doesn't make your opinion seem more valid.

 

[Alsacs]

Just updating myself on this thread, (the last 3 pages), I've seen posters say that we are "stuck in mediocrity", that "a lot of that's been bad more than good" and "What did we have, 7 guys and 2 or 3 were injured? I mean, I'm tired of excuses. That's just terrible roster management. Injuries happen, but you should still have enough bodies to field a team".

Mediocrity means average, a .500 team. we had out last .500 team in 1969-70. 105-73 is not mediocrity. The issue is: it's not elite and we think of ourselves as elite. There has been more good than bad in that stretch, just not as much more as we are used to. And last year we fielded a Sweet 16 team, one that might have been an elite 8 team if the refs hadn't put Dolezaj in foul trouble. it just wasn't a powerhouse team.

Overstating things doesn't make you opinion seem more valid.

You are better person that myself.
I don’t really think the 105-73 is that impressive when you factor in all the cupcake OOC games.
Colgate, Cornell, and those low D-1 teams are basically on the schedule for guaranteed wins.
I give JB credit for his always being competitive record wise when we are mediocre. He deserves credit for that.
I wonder how much over .500 we are in the ACC play and against P5/BE teams.

 

[SWC75]

You are better person that myself.
I don’t really think the 105-73 is that impressive when you factor in all the cupcake OOC games.
Colgate, Cornell, and those low D-1 teams are basically on the schedule for guaranteed wins.
I give JB credit for his always being competitive record wise when we are mediocre. He deserves credit for that.
I wonder how much over .500 we are in the ACC play and against P5/BE teams.

I'll let you look that up. I have some chores to do.

I would argue that being .500 in the ACC is not mediocre compared to the rest of college basketball.

 

[Alsacs]

I'll let you look that up. I have some chores to do.

I would argue that being .500 in the ACC is not mediocre compared to the rest of college basketball.

We aren’t talking about the rest of basketball we are talking about P5 basketball.
Medicore means moderate quality.
Which is exactly what we have been.

When I have time I will do the numbers.

 

[kirbivore]

Off-topic, but I'll say it again:

HOW TF DID WE GET A 4 SEED IN 2005?!

Ranked 11th, won the Big East tournament; got seeded as if we're ranked 13th to 16th. And got sent to play everyone's season-long upset special 3 hours from their campus.

The most underrated seeding screwjob in SU history.

Perhaps the committee clowns dramatically over seeding the 2006 team, which went from wrong side of bubble to #5 NCAA seed in just four games, was some kind of make up call.

 

[FrancoPizza]

i think the anxiety is heightened because we have an old coach, and there was a succession plan in place that got thrown out the window. some people say Hopkins left so we had to keep boeheim, some people say hopkins left on purpose so that we would have to keep boeheim. either way, as a fanbase we are stuck with an unknown and I think the real source of frustration is that everyone wants to see JB go out as a winner. we all want to see him go out on top. and there is just no evidence that it is going to happen. JB should have handed over the reigns to Hopkins as his trusted lieutenant to coach his son, and we could have all enjoyed that. we are stuck in mediocrity until he retires, and the only question left is he much damage does he do on the way out.

Could not have said it any better.

 

[721Comstock]

Could not have said it any better.

Well, that's true. You couldn't have.
But lots of others could have, can, and will.

So - the "unknown" we're "stuck with", is that we have an older coach? EGADS!!!
How come Duke, UNC, Miami, FSU, et. al. - also aren't dealing with this horror like we, and only we, are?

Have you checked those guys ages out?
Let's put it this way - they're all well beyond being eligible for Medicaid.

Please name the Head Coach In Waiting at any other P5 with an older coach.
We'll wait here...

JB CLEARLY was not done wanting to coach.
That 9 game suspension probably proved it to him, beyond any shadow of a doubt.
And Hop knew it.

And then there was the chance to coach his son.
Which he's now doing.

Go out a winner?
The dude has LITERALLY NEVER HAD A LOSING SEASON. EVER.

 

[SWC75]

We aren’t talking about the rest of basketball we are talking about P5 basketball.
Medicore means moderate quality.
Which is exactly what we have been.

When I have time I will do the numbers.

"of moderate or low quality, value, ability, or performance : ORDINARY, SO-SO "
Definition of MEDIOCRE

I contend that a .500 record in the ACC would be better than that in other power 5 conferences.

 

[FrancoPizza]

Go out a winner?
The dude has LITERALLY NEVER HAD A LOSING SEASON. EVER.

So now the bar is being above .500? Got it.

JB's longevity is due more to the fact that we have been consistently well above .500... him going out a winner is not about extending a streak (nobody outside of Syracuse cares) --- it's about restoring vitality to the program.

 

[Alsacs]

"of moderate or low quality, value, ability, or performance : ORDINARY, SO-SO "
Definition of MEDIOCRE

I contend that a .500 record in the ACC would be better than that in other power 5 conferences.

I can’t tell you what to think.
So go ahead feel that way.
I would contend that since only Big XII has a true round robin .500 record means .500 record.
It’s medicore.
Being medicore as our down period is a complement to JB’s consistency but also it’s not wrong to call it out for what it is as medicore regular season basketball.

2014-15
9-9 ACC play
8-0 against midmajor OOC teams
1-4 against BE/P5 OOC games

2015-16
9-9 ACC play
0-1 ACCT
8-0 against midmajor OOC teams
2-3 against BE/P5 OOC teams
4-1 NCAAT

2016-17
10-8 ACC
0-1 ACCT
8-0 against midmajor OOC teams
0-5 against BE/P5 OOC teams

2017-2018
8-10 ACC
1-1 ACCT
8-1 against midmajor OOC teams
3-1 against BE/P5 OOC teams
3-1 NCAAT

2018-2019
10-7 ACC play
7-2 against midmajor OOC teams
2-2 against BE/P5 OOC teams.

Last 5 years
ACC play 46-43
OOC record against midmajors 31-3
OOC record against P5/BE teams 8-15
ACC Tournament 1-3
NCAA Tournament 7-2
Our record overall 101-66(.584)
If you can’t see that for medicore be my guest.
We are 27 games over .500 the last 5 years and are 28 games over .500 against midmajors.

Thus when it’s P5/BE teams we are textbook medicore at .500.

However sorry I didn’t do this as well as you do as I don’t have that talent.

 

[SaltLakeOrange]

Alsacs, where does this notion that JAB and staff are lacking in player development come from?
It is utter nonsense. Let's think about it ...

• Battle: Much improved/well rounded. Has learned how to play a little point. Strong development.
• Howard: Cannot ignore the context of injury this year. It's a bummer to watch. That said, Frank was VITAL to last year's successes. He was a top 5 PG in the ACC in 2017-18. Was he anywhere near that as a frosh or sophomore? No. Good development.
• Buddy: Small sample, only one season to analyze, but he went from dismal in Nov and Dec to a vital cog at present. He's broken out of his basketball shell. Solid development.
• Hughes: Averaged about 7.8 PPG for ECU int eh American two years ago. Now averaging nearly 14 PPG in the ACC. Had a year to bone up on the system and fine tune his game under the watchful eye of SU staff. Strong development.
• Dolezaj: If you cannot see how he's improved the last 16 months, I cannot help you. Strong development.
• Brisset: I think he is essentially the same as last year, other than he's dropped about 12-14% on his FT percentage. Also not getting to the line like he did last year. I've been more encouraged the last 6-8 games (Monday/UVa nonwithstandng). Less jump shooting, more driving. He's a 4-year player who got more run out these past 2 years out of necessity (sanctions!). Slight downturn.
• Chukwu: His rise has been gradual in nature, but he is definitively a better player now than he was 2-3 years ago. Still inconsistent, but improving in this area too. Solid development.
• Sidibe: Incomplete due to lack of playing time/injury.
• Carey: Incomplete due to lack of playing time.
• Washington: Incomplete due to lack of playing time/injury

So, by my count: 3 strong developments, 1 good development, 2 solid development, 1 slight downturn, 3 incomplete.

But the proof is in the pudding? The whole is less than the sum of the parts. They are wildly inconsistent and really don’t play well together on offense against any team that can apply more than token pressure.

 

[Fly Rodder]

OOC record against P5/BE teams 8-15

 

[rrlbees]

I'm curious as to what you think Huerter was lying about?

if the Orange had another scholarship

 

[moqui]

Just updating myself on this thread, (the last 3 pages), I've seen posters say that we are "stuck in mediocrity", that "a lot of that's been bad more than good" and "What did we have, 7 guys and 2 or 3 were injured? I mean, I'm tired of excuses. That's just terrible roster management. Injuries happen, but you should still have enough bodies to field a team".

Mediocrity means average, a .500 team. we had our last .500 team in 1969-70. 105-73 is not mediocrity. The issue is: it's not elite and we think of ourselves as elite. There has been more good than bad in that stretch, just not as much more as we are used to. And last year we fielded a Sweet 16 team, one that might have been an Elite 8 team if the refs hadn't put Dolezaj in foul trouble. It just wasn't a powerhouse team, which we would like be again.

Overstating things doesn't make your opinion seem more valid.

also: there are 353 teams in division 1 basketball. in years 2015-2018 there were 351. in those seasons, syracuse has finished with the following ranks in the pomeroy ratings:
2015: 53, 85th percentile
2016: 27, 92nd percentile
2017: 55, 84th percentile
2018: 41, 88th percentile
2019: 36* 89th percentile
*not final yet

of course we would all like to see those numbers higher and they pale next to the great run from 2009 to 2014. but they are not "mediocre" by any reasonable definition of the term.

 

[br801]

also: there are 353 teams in division 1 basketball. in years 2015-2018 there were 351. in those seasons, syracuse has finished with the following ranks in the pomeroy ratings:
2015: 53, 85th percentile
2016: 27, 92nd percentile
2017: 55, 84th percentile
2018: 41, 88th percentile
2019: 36* 89th percentile
*not final yet

of course we would all like to see those numbers higher and they pale next to the great run from 2009 to 2014. but they are not "mediocre" by any reasonable definition of the term.

Sure, but remove the 80% or so teams below SU in those years and the program looks mediocre at best.

 

[Alsacs]

also: there are 353 teams in division 1 basketball. in years 2015-2018 there were 351. in those seasons, syracuse has finished with the following ranks in the pomeroy ratings:
2015: 53, 85th percentile
2016: 27, 92nd percentile
2017: 55, 84th percentile
2018: 41, 88th percentile
2019: 36* 89th percentile
*not final yet

of course we would all like to see those numbers higher and they pale next to the great run from 2009 to 2014. but they are not "mediocre" by any reasonable definition of the term.

Yeah when you are comparing Syracuse to Colgate or Cornell or the entire D-1 it completely moves the goalposts.
When you are comparing Syracuse to P5/Big East high division 1 basketball it’s where the term medicore comes.
If you want to lower the bar go ahead.
My god comparing our team to America East/Patriot League/ Ivy teams is pointless.
If you don’t think ACC conference play 46-43
P5/former BE OOC 8-15
ACC Tournament 1-3
NCAA tournament 7-2
Total 62 wins 63 losses isn’t medicore then fine.
Of course when you add the 31-3 in midmajor games we become 93-66.

Jim Boeheim deserves sincere credit for his bottom being mediocrity. It honestly is a credit in his ledger. Having a winning season every year and over 1 thousand wins.

However our last 5 years in relation to high level power 5 ACC level basketball we have been medicore.

 

[SWC75]

I can’t tell you what to think.
So go ahead feel that way.
I would contend that since only Big XII has a true round robin .500 record means .500 record.
It’s medicore.
Being medicore as our down period is a complement to JB’s consistency but also it’s not wrong to call it out for what it is as medicore regular season basketball.

2014-15
9-9 ACC play
8-0 against midmajor OOC teams
1-4 against BE/P5 OOC games

2015-16
9-9 ACC play
0-1 ACCT
8-0 against midmajor OOC teams
2-3 against BE/P5 OOC teams
4-1 NCAAT

2016-17
10-8 ACC
0-1 ACCT
8-0 against midmajor OOC teams
0-5 against BE/P5 OOC teams

2017-2018
8-10 ACC
1-1 ACCT
8-1 against midmajor OOC teams
3-1 against BE/P5 OOC teams
3-1 NCAAT

2018-2019
10-7 ACC play
7-2 against midmajor OOC teams
2-2 against BE/P5 OOC teams.

Last 5 years
ACC play 46-43
OOC record against midmajors 31-3
OOC record against P5/BE teams 8-15
ACC Tournament 1-3
NCAA Tournament 7-2
Our record overall 101-66(.584)
If you can’t see that for medicore be my guest.
We are 27 games over .500 the last 5 years and are 28 games over .500 against midmajors.

Thus when it’s P5/BE teams we are textbook medicore at .500.

However sorry I didn’t do this as well as you do as I don’t have that talent.

Firstly it's "mediocre" not "medicore". However you spell it, 46-43 in the country's best conference is not mediocre. 31-3 vs. mid majors is not mediocre. 7-2 in the NCAAs is not mediocre, especially with a Final Four. 8-15 vs. PS/BE is bad. 1-3 in ACCT is bad. if you want to complain, complain about that.

My position is that we still have a good program but we haven't been elite over this period as we were from 2008-2014. Our problem is that we want to get back to that and it's hard to see how we will the way things have been going. But maybe things will turn around again.

 

[Alsacs]

Firstly it's "mediocre" not "medicore". However you spell it, 46-43 in the country's best conference is not mediocre. 31-3 vs. mid majors is not mediocre. 7-2 in the NCAAs is not mediocre, especially with a Final Four. 8-15 vs. PS/BE is bad. 1-3 in ACCT is bad. if you want to complain, complain about that.

My position is that we still have a good program but we haven't been elite over this period as we were from 2008-2014. Our problem is that we want to get back to that and it's hard to see how we will the way things have been going. But maybe things will turn around again.

My phone auto changes it so I blame my stupid phone for the misspelling.

46-43 is mediocre. We have finished
9th, 9th, 8th, 11th, 6th or 7th in the standings the last 5 years out of 15 teams.
If being on average 8th of 15 isn’t mediocre then okay.

The last 5 years we have been an average ACC program. It’s okay to say that as I have confidence the program will get better.