105 Wins & 73 Losses

[NineOneSeven]

ill bet 80 percent of teams would love to be a .600 record team the last 4-5 years in the ACC

Absolutely. It's all relative, of course. That's what happens when you build up such a successful program. No different than successful businesses or personal development. Standards increase.

 

[UnknownOrange]

My point is literally all the time, points are made by simply looking at the last x # of games.

Strange there is so much backlash about splitting up a season into different portions. It's legit done all the time and talked about all the time. There literally used to be a portion on the selection show called last 10 that showed how every team was doing to end the season. Obviously that is gone, and I agree with it because determining a postseason bracket should include everything from that season because the entire season builds up to that postseason. But if you're talking about historical trends, choose whatever sample size you want. Fact- in the last 178 games SU has lost 73.

But I digress. Didn't mean to get sucked into this topic. Let's beat Clemson.

And that's fine. I understand what you're trying to say... but when someone is campaigning to get the head coach fired it's tough to ignore that the OP specifically chose the 1st loss as his starting point.

 

[Day2]

you should ask my employees if they enjoy working with me lol

What do you do for a living?

 

[HRE Otto IV]

Yeah but we're 130 and 73 since the start of the '13-14 season so now what

That’s still worse than we should be. Equivalent of a 20-12 season.

 

[UnderHisOwnPower]

#'s do not lie

Feb 14th - 2014 - 25-0 streak ended with a loss against BC
2013–14 Syracuse Orange men's basketball team - Wikipedia

That team had 7 - yes 7 SU players drafted, signed as free agents by NBA teams - some never made it to the show, but all were at least on G teams - 7 players from that team is just incredible

Since then our record 105 wins & 73 losses

This is not about sanctions, did we stop recruiting players? We had less slots to give so yes we had to have a better batting average and yes we were limited to coaches on the road, however deal with the cards you are dealt, the record is the record , you still signed kids

Our offense is not an offense

Read the recent article about Tyus and the NBA scouts - embarrassing - about 6 scouts commented on his game and each basically said he plays 1 on 1 basketball up at SU b/c they do not run offense

We have a coach unwilling to make changes, the broken record continues every game, make a change please, put in different players, i for one would have liked to see Braswell play some, take Oshae out some, not the entire game, but give him a chance, JB is the only head coach in america who talks about well they are freshmen, yes freshmen are the kids that make up the largest % of the nba draft each season

i can't even watch frank howard play basketball anymore, hurt or not, can JB make an adjustment? I mean the guy was so bad vs VA, he has been horrible all season, i feel bad for him, but he is not getting any better with age, this is not a fine wine, we had 3 PG's to start the year, 2 of them just sit on the bench,

what about talking to the press and just providing more and more info to our competition - like - why is he telling the press that Elijah is just not ready, he can't drive around anyone or continue to insult Pascal about what he is NOT

Does "Inspire" exist in that locker room?

Or embarrassing the kids during post game press conferences - just ask Oshae how he feels

I wish each of you could see the 2 hour practices each day - I have only witnessed JB sitting on his chair and watching them run up and down the court, he is not involved with any of the 1st hour of practice, he watches while the other coaches are with their groups

I have never seen JB on the court with the players working before or after practice - never, now, maybe he does, but maybe he doesn't, i just find it very strange

He does not relate to the kids today, i thought it would be different w/ Buddy on the team, but it's not

This is about coaching & recruiting

We are no longer a tier 1 program, clearly middle of the pack

Why should we think the future should be any better w/out changes?

(Gilardino - thanks for the info)

Time for changes to be made

I love this idea of how much better things will be when JB finally retires. You really have no idea how good you've had it as a fan of this program.

 

[NineOneSeven]

Cannot wait for townie to show up. We've already sucked in his protege.

 

[jgeorge322]

I dont know. I find it hard to believe that JBs system suddenly doesnt work when weve had two legit national contending teams in the past ten or so years. I think our talent is a bit down right now, and theres a couple reasons for that, mainly the sanctions IMHO.

People want to change the system but i feel like that is short sighted. Staying true to your identity is what brings sustained success. Making significant changes year in and year out would seemingly conflict the program and players for possibly short term goals. We actually run an offense that is very similar to NBA teams so I dont get why scouts wouldn’t want to see that. The offense has looked beautiful in the recent past and it will again once we get the talent needed.

Also, you cant simply say the sanctions arent the problem and not explain it. If anything, sanctions would hurt us most right now, at the very end. Thats because they have a cumulative effect. What has happened with the sanctions on this board is called fatigue. Posters are sick of hearing about it because it seems like a tired excuse. But the sanctions are finally over just now! And the thing is, just because the scholarship numbers have been restored, does not mean the harm is finished. The sanctions will continue to hurt us because of a hangover effect. The sanctions hurt us on the court, which means makes recruiting harder. That snowballs into more losses which lowers the status of the program. And so on. People seriously understate how bad the penalty was. You don’t just flip the switch and be back to full strength because the scholarships are restored. It will take another 2-3 years to get back to 100%.

The comment about how JB runs practice seems like a petty cheap shot. I dont mind a coach observing. The knowledge can be passed on through the assistants. Plus, it may free up JB to observe things more objectively and from a different perspective than if he was caught up running individual drills. This comment seems to stem purely from emotion. “We got crushed by Virginia in a half so I am going to lash out with any petty argument I can think of.” Its weak.

I agree about JBs public commentary. I wish he wouldn’t do that, especially with players who leave early for the NBA.

Lastly, were not all that bad right now. Were going to make the NCAAT and theres probably only 5 teams that we really can’t beat consistently/aren’t close to a toss up.

 

[Jasoncuse]

All fair points. But we all know nothing is changing. This program isn't going to get out of the mud until there is a change at the top. Simple as that.

All I can hope for is that some of the young guys really improve (Carey, Braswell, Marek) and along with the newcomers, we are able to gel in a year or two. I just see such a flawed system and pieces being brought in that its hard to envision becoming a contender any time soon.

 

[dasher]

Moten? Who is looking back to 1993 1994 ? Do you think they are doing this at UCLA? or Kansas? Or AZ? or UNLV? or UNC? did UNC make any HC changes since 1994?

look at the top 25 programs records since 1994 - how many schools have made leadership changes - please - your response is absurd - 1994 does not matter - u are living in the past - we used to run a fast break with nba players during 1989 to 95 - Coleman & Owens and most of the guys on those teams would start today

Well, leave it up to you do not understand what I just wrote. 1994 was about the last sanctions. we were hurt by them as well. And we weren't running fast breaks with nba talent from '92 to '95. That is the point.

 

[MikeSU02]

I don’t think people realize how much trouble we are in with our offensive strategy.

Sanctions hurt. Focusing on players for the defense hurt our offense.

But we now have a defense *and* now an offense that can be used against us in recruiting.

And we have a coach who only has Cuse players as his assistants.

We’re in more trouble than people think.

 

[OrangeFoo]

I think that the 25-0 record is an interesting inflection point to use because that season is when the cracks with our program really started showing. If I remember correctly, we were very lucky to be 25-0 and we were playing like crap well before the BC loss... if anything that 25-0 was a microcosm of our program because the systemic flaws in the program were papered over by a gaudy record and post season success. Our performance after 25-0 was a better reflection of the state of the program than 25-0 and the NCAA runs ever were. We were basically white-knuckling our way to wins... ironically something we've continually made fun of the football program for but because it's JB the loyalists will never criticize.

At the end of the day the loyalists will argue the downfall was due to sanctions... the non-loyalist will argue it's all about JB. The answer is it was both and we will be stuck in this perpetual cycle of whose fault it is until either the direction of the program trend changes or JB retires.

I for one hope next season is different, because why not? As a fan when this year is over, all you have to look forward to is next year (this is specific to college hoops... there is much more outside of college hoops to look forward to)

 

[Jasoncuse]

Well, leave it up to you do not understand what I just wrote. 1994 was about the last sanctions. we were hurt by them as well. And we weren't running fast breaks with nba talent from '92 to '95. That is the point.

We had a HC that was 25 years younger at that time. Recruiting is a different beast now and seems to require more presence and detail. I'd love to see JB back out on the road grinding, but I find it hard to believe a man in his 70's will physically be able to, especially with all that he's going through right now.

 

[newmexicuse]

it is not just the number of losses, but the fact that many have been embarrassing. jb does what he does. it works sometimes, not as often as previously.

as a fan it is just frustrating to see matchups or gameplans obviously not working and no adjustment from our coach in terms of either strategy or player rotations.

 

[Day2]

My point is that all the time, points are made by simply looking at the last x # of games.

Strange there is so much backlash about splitting up a season into different portions.

Except that’s not what he’s doing. He’s splitting up a season and then tacking the back half onto subsequent seasons. That isn’t done all the time. It isn’t done at all, unless there’s a streak that carried over from one year to the next.

Anyone who ignores the 25-0 start or the two Final Fours this decade is being disingenuous.

 

[AZOrange]

I rarely say this, but this is a dumb post. Why the heck do you start at the end of a 25-0 start? Dumb. And to double down on dumb, you say it isn't about sanctions but coaching and recruiting. Well, both recruiting and coaching were badly hurt by, wait for it, the sanctions. Want proof, go back and look at what we looked like during our last round of sanctions. If we didn't get very lucky with Moten being much better than anyone thought and Wallace growing up down the road, we would have fielded teams much worse that what we have now. The sanctions really hurt our recruiting. And the coaches were left coaching kids that were not as good. Over the last 10 years, we have 2 #1 seeds, two other final fours. A 25-0 start. Are we as good now as we were 10 years ago. No. There are a number of reasons for that. The sanctions are at the top of the list. But we have been in this spot before. We do face new challenges with a coaching change on the horizon. Overall, the last 10 years have been as good as any 10 years we have had. We just don't tend to remember the down years in the 90's or the prior 10 years as well as the years we are living through right now.

It’s also very clear that we missed on recruits we needed (Bryant, quade, stew, Tucker, huerter) had some departures we didn’t need (Mali, Lydon, Taurean) and had guys that didn’t work (kaleb and Moyer). There’s been a confluence of issues and it all relates back to sanctions.

 

[dasher]

We have gone to 2 final fours in the last 6 years. That isn't good. That is great for us. We have only been to 6 in our great history. Do we have problems right now, yes. We have to get back to having real point guards. We have to get back to having a center that we can lob the ball down low and get a bucket. But the op is just throwing stuff up against the wall to fit his agenda. The other day it was what a great player Roberson has turned out to be. Tomorrow, it will be something else.

 

[SU94]

#'s do not lie

Feb 14th - 2014 - 25-0 streak ended with a loss against BC
2013–14 Syracuse Orange men's basketball team - Wikipedia

That team had 7 - yes 7 SU players drafted, signed as free agents by NBA teams - some never made it to the show, but all were at least on G teams - 7 players from that team is just incredible

Since then our record 105 wins & 73 losses

This is not about sanctions, did we stop recruiting players? We had less slots to give so yes we had to have a better batting average and yes we were limited to coaches on the road, however deal with the cards you are dealt, the record is the record , you still signed kids

Our offense is not an offense

Read the recent article about Tyus and the NBA scouts - embarrassing - about 6 scouts commented on his game and each basically said he plays 1 on 1 basketball up at SU b/c they do not run offense

We have a coach unwilling to make changes, the broken record continues every game, make a change please, put in different players, i for one would have liked to see Braswell play some, take Oshae out some, not the entire game, but give him a chance, JB is the only head coach in america who talks about well they are freshmen, yes freshmen are the kids that make up the largest % of the nba draft each season

i can't even watch frank howard play basketball anymore, hurt or not, can JB make an adjustment? I mean the guy was so bad vs VA, he has been horrible all season, i feel bad for him, but he is not getting any better with age, this is not a fine wine, we had 3 PG's to start the year, 2 of them just sit on the bench,

what about talking to the press and just providing more and more info to our competition - like - why is he telling the press that Elijah is just not ready, he can't drive around anyone or continue to insult Pascal about what he is NOT

Does "Inspire" exist in that locker room?

Or embarrassing the kids during post game press conferences - just ask Oshae how he feels

I wish each of you could see the 2 hour practices each day - I have only witnessed JB sitting on his chair and watching them run up and down the court, he is not involved with any of the 1st hour of practice, he watches while the other coaches are with their groups

I have never seen JB on the court with the players working before or after practice - never, now, maybe he does, but maybe he doesn't, i just find it very strange

He does not relate to the kids today, i thought it would be different w/ Buddy on the team, but it's not

This is about coaching & recruiting

We are no longer a tier 1 program, clearly middle of the pack

Why should we think the future should be any better w/out changes?

(Gilardino - thanks for the info)

Time for changes to be made

You must be new to the bandwagon, which is fine. I put this in another thread, but I think it bears repeating ...

Programs are not measured in seasons, but decades. And a program's arch is not a straight line, with a few exceptions.

And yet, the SU Basketball program has been one sport's most consistent entities. What is it? 50 straight winning seasons.

That said, there are fluctuations within our incredible range of consistency. The last 2-4 years have been rockier than most we've encountered, with some incredible ups and some low points, too. I mean, we do have two F4s this decade, right? Most fans of the program for more than 5 years get this.

This program will trend up again. It lulled in the mid-to-late 90s. It lulled about 3-4 years after the 2003 National Championship. It will likely nudge back up in Boeheim's final 3 seasons and it will be back after his tenure ends too. And there will invariably be some valleys to weather too. That's the nature of competition.

That is the history of Syracuse basketball: High ceiling, high floor!

 

[dasher]

We had a HC that was 25 years younger at that time. Recruiting is a different beast now and seems to require more presence and detail. I'd love to see JB back out on the road grinding, but I find it hard to believe a man in his 70's will physically be able to, especially with all that he's going through right now.

I agree 100% with this.

 

[GooseMutt]

What upsets me most, is the embarrassing lack of offense perpetuated by a negative disconnected Coach who has the audacity to sit during practice. Even a minute. Define “Coach”. One who sits?

 

[NineOneSeven]

I don’t think people realize how much trouble we are in with our offensive strategy.

Sanctions hurt. Focusing on players for the defense hurt our offense.

But we now have a defense *and* now an offense that can be used against us in recruiting.

And we have a coach who only has Cuse players as his assistants.

We’re in more trouble than people think.

It's very intriguing to see how this all plays out.

 

[AZOrange]

it is not just the number of losses, but the fact that many have been embarrassing. jb does what he does. it works sometimes, not as often as previously.

as a fan it is just frustrating to see matchups or gameplans obviously not working and no adjustment from our coach in terms of either strategy or player rotations.

SUs last 30-40 years is littered with disappointing results to SU fans. People forget how many losses our “great” teams in the 80s/90s had. How many games did Red lose as a PG? Now you have 18 conference games in the best conf in hoops. We cannot load up on East Texas State games anymore.

 

[721Comstock]

What do you do for a living?

Apparently, it's posting arbitrary and disingenuous stats and claiming them as facts.
so - clearly he works for the Trump administration.

 

[PauliePeppas]

JB hitting the trail consistently has been my biggest worry and continues to be...

 

[hoopsupstate]

It's very intriguing to see how this all plays out.

dasher - keep your blinders on - you will never go against JB -
i thought it would get better, it has gone the other way, i was wrong, but i admit it
we are not headed in the right direction

When you have less talent the last thing you want to do is give players more freedom and freelance on offense. This team needs more structure and continuity on offense. JB won’t do this. This team is very easy to defend and our style only makes it worse. You might get away with this playing against average teams, but not the better teams. We’ve only beat teams in the bottom half of the conference.

 

[Trueblue25]

I’d shake up the rest of the staff on the bench if the old man’s here to stay. I know that’s not a popular opinion but coaching is at least half the underlying issue.

That being said I don’t think we’ve fallen to a middle tier program, we’ve had 50+ consecutive winning seasons and will end with at least 10 ACC wins.