2020-2021 NY Knicks Season Thread

[MikeSU02]

I'm going to go against the grain a little and point out a valid point CR has made many of you look right past. Anyone thinking the Knicks can add a superstar or 2 to the current Knicks mix under Thibs are likely to be disappointed. The current players are buying in because they have little choice. If they dont they are gone and likely not in the NBA any longer. Thibs style is not conducive to bringing in better experienced players because they won't want to adapt to Thib's style. There is the rub. They are getting better because of Thibs but he comes with a ceiling. There aren't many "superstars" willing to do what Thibs demands. The focus in my opinion should be on extending players like Randle that have bought in and have the necessary skills to excel. Right now Randle is the only Knick I have any confidence in that he will contribute every single game.

The Knicks biggest problem right now is RJ. What is he? What is he good at? He's still only 20 but I'm not very optimistic that he will ever be anything.

Our biggest issue is we're going to be in NBA purgatory. Thibs will raise our floor to the point where we're not bottoming out and we aren't getting a superstar because of Dolan, not Thibs. Also, the new front office is all in on CAA, which limits us quite a bit.

I get the effort, you don't want to just lose over and over, and as a Knicks fan, it's great to see them competitive. The issue is we can't fix this in FA and we're going to have to bank on getting a bump in the lottery (or maybe we make the playoffs).

Again, I'm not complaining, I wanted us to sign CP3. I would take Harden in a heartbeat. We need some sort of positive effort to get out of the muck, but that doesn't lend itself to level up in the NBA.

We just don't have the top level talent to really compete for anything meaningful and I'm not sure what our path is to get there.

 

[FloridaFan]

Our biggest issue is we're going to be in NBA purgatory. Thibs will raise our floor to the point where we're not bottoming out and we aren't getting a superstar because of Dolan, not Thibs. Also, the new front office is all in on CAA, which limits us quite a bit.

I get the effort, you don't want to just lose over and over, and as a Knicks fan, it's great to see them competitive. The issue is we can't fix this in FA and we're going to have to bank on getting a bump in the lottery (or maybe we make the playoffs).

Again, I'm not complaining, I wanted us to sign CP3. I would take Harden in a heartbeat. We need some sort of positive effort to get out of the muck, but that doesn't lend itself to level up in the NBA.

We just don't have the top level talent to really compete for anything meaningful and I'm not sure what our path is to get there.

Harden? You want to completely decimate any sense of continuity in the locker room with his style?

 

[MikeSU02]

Harden? You want to completely decimate any sense of continuity in the locker room with his style?

I don't care. I want to win and see high level talent.

We are so far past being able to properly rebuild and now the new crew is literally sticking us with only CAA/Kentucky people, we are in a very narrow scope.

Give me Harden, his historic scoring and get him his own booth at One Oak with a plaque on it. I do not care.

Who are we going to get, otherwise? Giannis? Signed. Bron? Nope. AD? Nope. Kawhi? Nope. Luka? Nope.

We aren't going to get Cade Cunningham and it will be a miracle of we land Emoni Bates (and it's still not clear what year he'll be able to come out).

So please give me James Harden. I don't care if he walks into MSG after not sleeping for 48 hours as long as he puts up 33/12/8.

 

[cuseincincy]

Harden? You want to completely decimate any sense of continuity in the locker room with his style?

Say nothing about locker room continuity. James Harden may be the most un-Thibs like player in the league.

 

[MikeSU02]

Say nothing about locker room continuity. James Harden may be the most un-Thibs like player in the league.

Harden is 1000000x more important to winning than Thibs in the NBA.

 

[Red Holzman]

The current players are buying in because they have little choice. If they dont they are gone and likely not in the NBA any longer. Thibs style is not conducive to bringing in better experienced players because they won't want to adapt to Thib's style. There is the rub. They are getting better because of Thibs but he comes with a ceiling. There aren't many "superstars" willing to do what Thibs demands.

For years, have not followed the NBA closely while monitoring the Knicks for signs of Life.
Therefore don't know Thibs other than very experienced and specializes in D.
What's the backstory? ie: What are his "style" and "demands" that make superstars unwilling to play for him?
Go ahead and burst my bubble .
Results so far are exciting -enjoy watching this team, but want to understand reasons for Thibs Black Cloud posts!
Lots of young talent, and improving so far under Thibs. Willing to wait and see where the ceiling is for most of them. The effort the Knicks show, and player comments, seems very positive (and supportive of Thibs) therefore hard to understand the "false hope" perspectives that seem too early to project. These guys bought in and are playing hard for Thibs "because they have little choice"?
Rather than shop for talent, hoping the Knicks have more potential than given credit for, and when developed with a couple more good draft picks we can compete and make playoff runs for many years.
So yeah, go ahead and burst my bubble! Just looking for details explaining the Black Cloud Backstory to prepare for potential Knicks Disappointment if that is sadly where this leads once again.

 

[OrangeDW]

I think Free Agents are far more likely to sign with a competitive team, or a team with the pieces to become competitive. Just having “NYC” and “the Garden” hasn’t been enough. Maybe things like that could be the cherry on top, but it can’t be your whole draw.

Knicks just need to focus on drafting well and developing players and getting better now, IMO. If they’re able to look like a solid team on the rise, then you’ll have a far better shot at top FA’s, and if you get to that point and Thibs is holding you back, then make a move. IMO. Thibs is your “starter house”. Holding out hope that the best player in the league is going to come because “it’s NY” has been a false hope for a long time, and tanking for ping pong balls as such a long shot.

Nets got KD and Kyrie because they had the foundation of a solid team. Same with the Lakers getting LeBron. They’d acquired and developed some nice young talent and had pieces.

 

[OrangeDW]

For years, have not followed the NBA closely while monitoring the Knicks for signs of Life.
Therefore don't know Thibs other than very experienced and specializes in D.
What's the backstory? ie: What are his "style" and "demands" that make superstars unwilling to play for him?
Go ahead and burst my bubble .
Results so far are exciting -enjoy watching this team, but want to understand reasons for Thibs Black Cloud posts!
Lots of young talent, and improving so far under Thibs. Willing to wait and see where the ceiling is for most of them. The effort the Knicks show, and player comments, seems very positive (and supportive of Thibs) therefore hard to understand the "false hope" perspectives that seem too early to project. These guys bought in and are playing hard for Thibs "because they have little choice"?
Rather than shop for talent, hoping the Knicks have more potential than given credit for, and when developed with a couple more good draft picks we can compete and make playoff runs for many years.
So yeah, go ahead and burst my bubble! Just looking for details explaining the Black Cloud Backstory to prepare for potential Knicks Disappointment if that is sadly where this leads once again.

Thibs has been criticized primarily for being demanding and running hard practice, and for running guys into the ground minutes wise by playing his best guys a ton.

As far as I know the “superstars don’t like him” stems from Minnesota with Karl Anthony Towns and Andrew Wiggins(who so far has been nowhere near a superstar) who were young players that haven’t won squat. Should be noted Thibs is the only guy to get that organization to the playoffs in like 15 years.

In the early 10’s, Thibs walked into a pretty young and on the rise Bulls team and had a very good tenure there, but they could never get past LeBron. Overall he had a solid run there though.

 

[Red Holzman]

Read that Durant's $40M annual contract is doubled by his endorsements.
The Garden Luster may be gone, but there's still a rabid Knicks fanbase in NYC and beyond-
I'd argue that players that finally lead the Knicks back to the Promised Land would become legend and own NYC for years to come AND gain as many or probably more endorsements than any other NBA market!
Hope that $ Driven Free Agents recognize this. Sounds like Austin Rivers gets it and wants to be part of a rebuild.

 

[Red Holzman]

Thibs has been criticized primarily for being demanding and running hard practice, and for running guys into the ground minutes wise by playing his best guys a ton.

As far as I know the “superstars don’t like him” stems from Minnesota with Karl Anthony Towns and Andrew Wiggins(who so far has been nowhere near a superstar) who were young players that haven’t won squat. Should be noted Thibs is the only guy to get that organization to the playoffs in like 15 years.

In the early 10’s, Thibs walked into a pretty young and on the rise Bulls team and had a very good tenure there, but they could never get past LeBron. Overall he had a solid run there though.

Thank You OrangeDW-
Nothing there concerns me, other than excessive minutes for starters -will hope that learning from the past and the balance on this team will prevent running guys into the ground playing excessive minutes.
These young guys are going to have to work for it, so the demanding coach running hard practices is a plus!

 

[Madbiker]

The Knicks actually look like a real team under Thibs. Amazing that a real coach can make a difference. I actually like some of the new talent. Robinson has great potential. This Quickley is an intriguing guy who can play. Nice find. Barrett has talent he just needs to take fewer 3's. It's the first time they are watchable (so far) in like 10 years maybe more.

 

[OrangeDW]

Thank You OrangeDW-
Nothing there concerns me, other than excessive minutes for starters -will hope that learning from the past and the balance on this team will prevent running guys into the ground playing excessive minutes.
These young guys are going to have to work for it, so the demanding coach running hard practices is a plus!

I would agree. I think in the long term the “demanding practices” can wear thin - especially with a good team that has proven something. But personally I wouldn’t be worried about that now.

Scheme wise, I know he was knocked in Minnesota for his offense and not “embracing the 3” and the current trends. However, he also didn’t really have the roster for that. His best guys were Butler who lives in the mid range, and Towns - an inside player with a nice jumper. Wiggins was just an athlete. They didn’t really have the perimeter players to play “modern”, IMO.

 

[Red Holzman]

The Knicks actually look like a real team under Thibs. Amazing that a real coach can make a difference. I actually like some of the new talent. Robinson has great potential. This Quickley is an intriguing guy who can play. Nice find. Barrett has talent he just needs to take fewer 3's. It's the first time they are watchable (so far) in like 10 years maybe more.

Another long-suffering Knicks Fan who drank the Kool-Aid!
As have I
Great to see inspiring play by the Knicks that allows a fan to dream about the future!

 

[shandeezy7]

I think Free Agents are far more likely to sign with a competitive team, or a team with the pieces to become competitive. Just having “NYC” and “the Garden” hasn’t been enough. Maybe things like that could be the cherry on top, but it can’t be your whole draw.

Knicks just need to focus on drafting well and developing players and getting better now, IMO. If they’re able to look like a solid team on the rise, then you’ll have a far better shot at top FA’s, and if you get to that point and Thibs is holding you back, then make a move. IMO. Thibs is your “starter house”. Holding out hope that the best player in the league is going to come because “it’s NY” has been a false hope for a long time, and tanking for ping pong balls as such a long shot.

Nets got KD and Kyrie because they had the foundation of a solid team. Same with the Lakers getting LeBron. They’d acquired and developed some nice young talent and had pieces.

The Lakers had a pretty garbage foundation when Lebron went there, evidenced by their awful record his first season there. They wouldn't have been much better last year if Anthony Davis hadn't forced a trade there.

 

[MikeSU02]

For years, have not followed the NBA closely while monitoring the Knicks for signs of Life.
Therefore don't know Thibs other than very experienced and specializes in D.
What's the backstory? ie: What are his "style" and "demands" that make superstars unwilling to play for him?
Go ahead and burst my bubble .
Results so far are exciting -enjoy watching this team, but want to understand reasons for Thibs Black Cloud posts!
Lots of young talent, and improving so far under Thibs. Willing to wait and see where the ceiling is for most of them. The effort the Knicks show, and player comments, seems very positive (and supportive of Thibs) therefore hard to understand the "false hope" perspectives that seem too early to project. These guys bought in and are playing hard for Thibs "because they have little choice"?
Rather than shop for talent, hoping the Knicks have more potential than given credit for, and when developed with a couple more good draft picks we can compete and make playoff runs for many years.
So yeah, go ahead and burst my bubble! Just looking for details explaining the Black Cloud Backstory to prepare for potential Knicks Disappointment if that is sadly where this leads once again.

I'm much more worried about Dolan being a deterrent than Thibs for superstars. Thibs is great for a young team and raising the floor. Not sure what we can do about Dolan.

At the end of the day, we're watchable now, which is a big step up (I'm not being snarky). We look like a functional team that has some semblance of chemistry and organization. I'll take it.

My point is just that I think our path to being a top team is going to be pretty tough. I don't think we're going to land a FA and I don't think we'll be bad enough to get a top team. Also, the front office is so focused on CAA/UK that I'm worried about them having blinders on when we are trying to score a guy that can be an all star with a not top 3 pick.

 

[OrangeDW]

The Lakers had a pretty garbage foundation when Lebron went there, evidenced by their awful record his first season there. They wouldn't have been much better last year if Anthony Davis hadn't forced a trade there.

They had the pieces to trade for Davis - and those pieces are the foundation of a decent and rising New Orleans team now.

I think a team with Ingram, Randle(who I imagine would’ve been resigned if LeBron wasn’t coming), Ball, Hart, and Kuzma would be solid by this point. D. Russell has panned out too. Lakers definitely drafted very well which helped.

LeBron got hurt his first year, and things fell apart but that was just such a young group. Lakers won 35 games the year before LeBron with starters that were 20, 20, 23, 24, and 29.

 

[Red Holzman]

I'm much more worried about Dolan being a deterrent than Thibs for superstars. Thibs is great for a young team and raising the floor. Not sure what we can do about Dolan.

At the end of the day, we're watchable now, which is a big step up (I'm not being snarky). We look like a functional team that has some semblance of chemistry and organization. I'll take it.

My point is just that I think our path to being a top team is going to be pretty tough. I don't think we're going to land a FA and I don't think we'll be bad enough to get a top team. Also, the front office is so focused on CAA/UK that I'm worried about them having blinders on when we are trying to score a guy that can be an all star with a not top 3 pick.

Agree regarding Dolan Deterrent-but lean toward hope the Knicks win the "lottery" by finding higher upsides than expected for current players and make some great (potentially non-lottery) draft picks next few years vs. sign Free Agents. Will trust the CAA/UK thing doesn't become the issue you fear!

 

[Red Holzman]

Wow another VERY entertaining game, coming back from 15 down!
Looking tired then Quick and Rivers came in and amazingly a rookie and a player with no practices led the Knicks to victory.
LOVE Quickly'game and attitude.
Randle is gassed though.

 

[690West]

Wow another VERY entertaining game, coming back from 15 down!
Looking tired then Quick and Rivers came in and amazingly a rookie and a player with no practices led the Knicks to victory.
LOVE Quickly'game and attitude.
Randle is gassed though.

Yeah. Barrett and Randle are 1 and 2 in minutes played in the whole league so far.

 

[Red Holzman]

Yeah. Barrett and Randle are 1 and 2 in minutes played in the whole league so far.

Hope Toppin returns soon and in the rotation leading to more reasonable minutes.
Noel back ASAP too will help.

 

[Knicks411]

I think Free Agents are far more likely to sign with a competitive team, or a team with the pieces to become competitive. Just having “NYC” and “the Garden” hasn’t been enough. Maybe things like that could be the cherry on top, but it can’t be your whole draw.

Knicks just need to focus on drafting well and developing players and getting better now, IMO. If they’re able to look like a solid team on the rise, then you’ll have a far better shot at top FA’s, and if you get to that point and Thibs is holding you back, then make a move. IMO. Thibs is your “starter house”. Holding out hope that the best player in the league is going to come because “it’s NY” has been a false hope for a long time, and tanking for ping pong balls as such a long shot.

Nets got KD and Kyrie because they had the foundation of a solid team. Same with the Lakers getting LeBron. They’d acquired and developed some nice young talent and had pieces.

I honestly think the Lebron thing was mostly about him just wanting to go to LA. I was kinda surprised he basically gave away a year to go to LA. But that is LA, and Lebron is really not comparable to anyone else.

So I do think the idea of the Knicks landing a big FA just because they play in NY or whatever is a fantasy. Players want to win, like you said. So you do have to build up some kind of a competitive team, and then have the star come in to put them over the top. (The nets situation is really a perfect storm, cause they both put together a solid team and had room to bring 2 max type guys in)

 

[OrangeDW]

I honestly think the Lebron thing was mostly about him just wanting to go to LA. I was kinda surprised he basically gave away a year to go to LA. But that is LA, and Lebron is really not comparable to anyone else.

So I do think the idea of the Knicks landing a big FA just because they play in NY or whatever is a fantasy. Players want to win, like you said. So you do have to build up some kind of a competitive team, and then have the star come in to put them over the top. (The nets situation is really a perfect storm, cause they both put together a solid team and had room to bring 2 max type guys in)

How? They won a chip in year two. You really think he wasn’t going there to win?

 

[Knicks411]

How? They won a chip in year two. You really think he wasn’t going there to win?

I mean I think he was going there no matter what (I mean, unless the team was complete trash? ) and he figured he could get guys to join in with him sooner rather than later. But it wasn't like he was joining a team that was ready to win upon his addition, that's all.

But I don't think the Lakers followed the "build a decent/good team and then add a superstar" model . They won 35 games the year before he got there, and they won 37 games the first year even with him playing 55 games. It wasn't a good team. Then they got one of the best players in the league to add to the best player int he league and they won.

Actually I guess you could say they did follow the "build a decent/good team and then add a superstar" model but the superstar in question was AD.

 

[OrangeDW]

I mean I think he was going there no matter what (I mean, unless the team was complete trash? ) and he figured he could get guys to join in with him sooner rather than later. But it wasn't like he was joining a team that was ready to win upon his addition, that's all.

But I don't think the Lakers followed the "build a decent/good team and then add a superstar" model . They won 35 games the year before he got there, and they won 37 games the first year even with him playing 55 games. It wasn't a good team. Then they got one of the best players in the league to add to the best player int he league and they won.

Actually I guess you could say they did follow the "build a decent/good team and then add a superstar" model but the superstar in question was AD.

They were young as hell though. And they turned those guys into AD.

 

[CuseRunner]

All fine and dandy. But Quickley needs to start instead of Payton, and Toppin when healthy needs to start of Bullock.

It proves Thibs hates young players.