2022 MLB Season
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CanadianSU
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Trade deadline blue jays needed pitchers. They went and got Mitch Whyte who the dodgers casted away. Until that is improved jays will be pretenders every year.And somewhere Charlie Montoyo is saying, "I told you it wasn't me!"
So yeah essentially upper management needs to fix it.
Also some over confident players who could use a bit of a reality check but alas.
Cowtown
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That's an argument with which we can go long into the winter, мій друг! In the post game wrap up Buck was saying they need to let their starters go deeper earlier, so they can know how to finish games that tighten up around the seventh. I don't know, I think Buck's logic just gets you a longer injured list and sooner, at a time when there just aren't enough front line pitchers to go around.
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Cowtown
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I think they should start every inning with a runner on 2nd.
But seriously, I like the rule for the regular season. Let's face it, a bigger problem is the length of games, especially if they go into extra innings (with no ghost runner). Also teams can use up most of their staff if one of those marathons happens on the front end of a series, or if in the last game they don't fly out until 2:30 AM. What I question, however, is playoffs played with different rules than the regular season (see: NHL).
Cowtown
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cuseattle
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Cowtown
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jncuse
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I don't really care what reactive captain hindsights on message boards think. Have you read the Syracuse board after a loss or when we are losing? Sanity goes right out the door.
97% of managers in modern day baseball would have made the move there. Everyone except Dusty Baker who is still old school in sticking with veteran starters.
Once starters get third time through the lineup and get in trouble they get pulled very quickly, especially once the platoon switch comes into play. You can't claim otherwise -- this is what managers have been doing based on "analytics" for a handful of years now. At times it frustrates the hell out of me, because it is just one baserunner -- but in this case it was 3.
Gausman was at 95 pitches, 3rd time through the lineup, bases loaded, and lefties coming up. He was no longer excelling at the time. Every manager does the move when the L/L split comes into play.
It's a 7 run lead. If the argument is the bullpen sucks, then what are you going to do --- ride your starters for 140 pitches every game? The Jays bullpen is not great, but you can't play scared with a 7 run lead.
Sometimes it doesn't work out - it doesn't make it poor managing.
CanadianSU
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The game changed when Gausman came out. 95 pitches when you are pitching great you don’t make that change with 2 outs. Maybe after in the next inning. Personally, it’s one of the worst managed games I’ve ever watched but agree to disagree.
Not to say Jays don’t have other problems (bullpen) & obv when you choke that game far other things are at play.
jncuse
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They traded for Anthony Bass who was solid
73 games with an ERA of 1.54 (FIP of 3.00) much of it in high leverage situations. He was a very solid acquisition.
Could management have done more. Certainly they could have added one more arm in the pen, another power lefty would have been very nice. I am more inclined to blame management for bullpen struggles today than Schneider.
At the same time, low leverage situation with a 7 run lead, they had good enough relievers for that.
I do agree on the over-confident part - way too many in game and post game shenanigans going on for my liking.
another
CanadianSU
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Bass was part of the problem today as well. Plus stuff like his Twitter antics is just extra. Pop & Bass just aren’t game changers to get you through the playoffs.
I completely agree though management is where the pitching falls rather than JS.
jncuse
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He's not pitching great at that point -- the bases are loaded, his stuff is declining.
Sure its probable he doesn't give up a grand slam, but you can't call something the worst decision when every manager in modern day baseball would have done the same thing.
jncuse
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Never followed Bass. Didn't realize he was a twitter nut.
Went to read his stuff, saw a tweet from 4 days ago, and now saw that he shut his account. Must be one of those guys that likes to be an ass on twitter, but can't take it.
jncuse
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Managers can't manage beyond the 10th inning anymore, because they need to use about 127 pitchers every game just to get through nine innings and have nobody left for extra innings.
Modern day bullpens could not handle a long game anymore.
I was looking at some mid 80's bullpens the other day. Many teams went the entire season using only 11 or 12 pitchers... now some teams use up to 40 different pitchers in a season -- its absurd.
Here is an example the 1986 Royals. Its not like they didn't use the bullpen. They starters only averaged about 6.3 innings a start which is a bit more than today, but not much. But of the 439 relief innings, they had three relievers who pitched 300 of them (averaging 1.8 innings per game).
jncuse
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I did go back and watch the 6th inning again, to see if I was fair in my critique of those using "hindsight". And it appears I may not have been fair, and I will admit I was wrong -- for some reason I thought Mayza was brought in one batter earlier to face a lefty. At the time I was sorting though my hundreds of old golf balls and was "half-assed" watching, feeling confident about thngs.
Gausman was struggling (bases juiced) but he looked quite strong in getting that second out (Frazier). Santana has a positive split vs LHP (.042 OPS Career, and a more pronounced positive split of .134 OPS in 2022). So he does prefer to hit as a right handed batter - so he would have preferred to face the lefty Mayza. Although one can argue that Santana had hit a ball in an earlier at bat as well -- but to offset that Santana has not hit well against Gausman in 21 career at bas.
Here's the thing as I think about it again. It could have certainly been an appropriate and very normal move to bring in Mayza to face Frazier (the left handed batter). If he had done that I would have been OK.
But once Gausman gets Frazier out, you stick with him. There is a platoon disadvantage in taking out Gausman to face Santana. I wouldn't says its totally terrible, but it was certainly a poor one from an analytics and "feel" perspective.
7th inning on was purely an execution issue in using the cards he was dealt with.
Gausman was struggling (bases juiced) but he looked quite strong in getting that second out (Frazier). Santana has a positive split vs LHP (.042 OPS Career, and a more pronounced positive split of .134 OPS in 2022). So he does prefer to hit as a right handed batter - so he would have preferred to face the lefty Mayza. Although one can argue that Santana had hit a ball in an earlier at bat as well -- but to offset that Santana has not hit well against Gausman in 21 career at bas.
Here's the thing as I think about it again. It could have certainly been an appropriate and very normal move to bring in Mayza to face Frazier (the left handed batter). If he had done that I would have been OK.
But once Gausman gets Frazier out, you stick with him. There is a platoon disadvantage in taking out Gausman to face Santana. I wouldn't says its totally terrible, but it was certainly a poor one from an analytics and "feel" perspective.
7th inning on was purely an execution issue in using the cards he was dealt with.
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jncuse
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Random post on the 2011 Cardinals.
I remember going to watch a game in Pittsburgh in 2011 (vs St Louis). And my thought at the time was I had never seen a team play as stupid a game of baseball as the Cardinals did that day. The Cards were 53-49 after that -- I would have called you crazy if you thought that team was a World Series contender.
Checked the boxscore (below), and it confirmed my memories.
- Cards made 3 errors
- They were picked off twice!
- They were 0-1 in stealing bases
- They were 0-8 with RISP
- They also allowed the Pirates to steal 3 bags.
I seem to remember other stupid plays -- I believe a ball fell in between a few players, multiple failed sacrifice bunts.
As I drove back to Toronto a few days later, Toronto Radio was all excited because they had traded for Colby Rasmus (then with the Cards) for modest pitchers (Jackson, Dotel, Rzepcynski). Seems like it worked out much better for the Cards that year! Rasmus was a bit of a headcase IIRC and regressed.
St. Louis Cardinals vs Pittsburgh Pirates Box Score: July 24, 2011 | Baseball-Reference.com
Pittsburgh Pirates beat St. Louis Cardinals (4-3). Jul 24, 2011, Attendance: 35402, Time of Game: 3:14. Visit Baseball-Reference.com for the complete box score, play-by-play, and win probability
www.baseball-reference.com
