2023-24 NBA Season

[Day2]

View attachment 242209
Don't know if this is true, nor do I care.

 

[Cusefan0307]

The Lakers would have traded Brown or Tatum because that's what they do. They've shown zero patience with young players in a long time.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

Outstanding.

Both recruits tossed aside by the lakers while the Celtics allowed theirs to percolate and grow.

 

[Melancer46]

The bulls are just so utterly lost

I'm hoping for fans' sake this means they're finally committing to a rebuild (and crucially, ensuring they don't convey their 1st round pick next year to San Antonio or whoever it is they owe it to).

I think Giddey makes a lot of sense for them (and coincidentally, I had just started playing 2K again and running a franchise where I control all of the teams and I had traded Giddey to Chicago for Vucevic straight up).

I think Giddey was a little overrated as a prospect and became grossly overrated with the Thunder (I still remember the guys at The Ringer confidently proclaiming that he was going to be on a max contract with OKC either last offseason or earlier this season), but he's a pretty talented player and I think if you get him to buy back in on rebuilding his value, he can prove to be an adequate defender. He's really gotta learn how to shoot though; he's just not effective enough offensively without it, especially if he's relegated to an off-ball role.

At any rate, hopefully they find a taker for Vucevic and either find a taker for Lavine or try to rehab his value before the deadline and then look to move him.

 

[Melancer46]

If this move finally means the Bulls are going to do an actual rebuild/tank this and other moves to happen… then this make sense. Big ask with the Reinsdorfs still as owners. They turned down 1st round picks last season for Caruso as they wanted to make the playoffs. Super frustrating with cheap billionaire owners.

Caruso for Giddey straight up was tough to see at first. Despite being 30, Caruso was still coveted by many teams. Thought they could get more or package him with LaVine. But Giddey is only 21 with a lot of potential still.

Giddey is now viewed as the Lonzo replacement. Zo is finally “healthy,” and now the Bulls are rumored to just buy him out. You’d think he could be had for something, but it is probably best to just move on.

LaVine will be traded. For what.. who knows? Asking price keeps coming down, down, down…

Sounds like Vuc is being shopped too.

The Bulls do not have their first round pick next year in the load 2025 draft, but they do have a top 10 protection on it.. so if there was ever enough time to rebuild/tank… this is their small window.

The tricky part with this is Lavine alone is so expensive. Add Caruso's salary in and teams suddenly have to put together a trade package over $50 million per year to match the salaries; not an easy task.

I thought the Kings would make sense for Lavine (I want to say they once signed him to an offer sheet) and they have some easy salary pieces to match, but re-signing Monk may take them off the list. Beyond them and with Philly publicly saying they have zero interest, there aren't really any obvious suitors. Maybe Cleveland becomes a possibility once they move one of Garland/Mitchell as they seem likely to do. Maybe Atlanta becomes an option if they opt against blowing it up; they're another one that has some easy salary pieces to match. Orlando feels ripe for some sort of consolidation type of move and everyone knows they want some shooting; they have some easy salary pieces to match if they choose to do so. I'd be surprised if New Orleans goes this route, but if they think the Ingram/Zion duo is truly dead and prefer the spacing of Lavine, they could do a straight up swap. Lastly, I continue to think Detroit needs to either consider trading Cade or making a real effort to upgrade the roster around him this offseason; it just feels like a terrible idea to lock Cade into a max contract before you've even given him a chance to prove if he's the type you can win because of. Everyone keeps floating Detroit as being in the business of taking on bad contracts for draft picks again this offseason (which, Lavine arguably could be here lol), but I really think it would be stupid for them to just tank yet again while having Cade rotting away there.

All that is to say, I think Chicago will find a taker for Lavine if they want to find one but it also may make sense to try to rehab his value this season (while presumably letting DeRozan walk so the team can be primarily built around White and Lavine for the year).

 

[Melancer46]

Covering off on a few things:

I thought I'd be a lot angrier that the Celtics won, but I don't really hate this Cs team and I'm pretty happy for Al Horford. Joe Mazz is insane in a good way, happy for him. Jrue Holiday is easy to root for. The Js are fine. Tatum prob gets too much hate for no reason.

Lakers hiring JJ accommodates Bron. Probably makes their lives 100x easier as a Klutch team. I think he needs to hire some vet HCs to be on his bench, or at least one, but in reality, the team is still not going to come out of the West. Nugs, OKC, Minny, Mavs are top 4 with Memphis being a wild card. Even a team like the Kings just re-signed Monk. Who knows with the Clips at the moment.

No idea on the Giddey for Caruso straight up. That's highway robbery. I get why you can talk yourself into Giddey (stat stuffer, young), but he's inefficient and is trending downward... nothing to say of his off court stuff. Bulls are just in a bad spot. For OKC, I would say they are likely the favorite to get the one seed next year in the West. If they get someone like Hartenstein, I'd say it's almost a lock.

I'm going to still contend that Bron should go to the Spurs in a perfect world. Wemby is going to win DPOY and will be on an all nba team next year.

I think wherever Klay lands it won't matter. I think he can have moments, but I think he's going to really take a step back.

I think Draymond is going to be toast.

Boston should be heavy favorites in the East next year.

Mavs need to upgrade on their wing. Not sure how it can work, but that is where PG would fit (again, not counting the salary issues), just in general.

I think the top guys going into next year for the "elite" level (vs doing a ranking):
Locks: Jokic, Luka, Giannis, SGA, Wemby (I think this is your all nba first team next year pending health)
Locks if healthy, but won't be healthy: Embiid
90% lock: Tatum
Might need another year to be a lock: Ant
Worried about age being a factor: Steph
Too old to do it consistently: Bron, KD, Kawhi

Re: OKC and Hartenstein, I kinda wonder how willing OKC will be to hand out the long-term contract that Hartenstein will be looking for considering how many players OKC has to give extensions to in the near future. Certainly possible they suck it up and sign someone like Hartenstein (or Claxton?) to a long-term deal to fill that spot, but I kinda wonder if they're more likely to opt for a short-term guy via trade like Brook Lopez, Capela, Mitch Robinson, Steven Adams reunion, etc.

 

[OrangeFoo]

Any rumors on what Knicks will do? Seems like they will try to reup OG and IHart. Not seeing many other concrete rumors beyond contract management stuff and hypotheticals.

Knicks probably owe it to themselves to see what damage a healthy Randle + OG + Brunson combo can do before making a call on what to do with Randle long term. I really hope they don’t knee-jerk extend him but who knows maybe those three are the core of a title winning team?

I think Knicks still need a legit 2 to take pressure off of Brunson and let Donte cook off the bench. And a back up stretch 4… but is that Bogey when healthy?

The injuries from last year stunk… I think they could have competed with the Celtics better than anyone else did.

 

[Knicks411]

Re: OKC and Hartenstein, I kinda wonder how willing OKC will be to hand out the long-term contract that Hartenstein will be looking for considering how many players OKC has to give extensions to in the near future. Certainly possible they suck it up and sign someone like Hartenstein (or Claxton?) to a long-term deal to fill that spot, but I kinda wonder if they're more likely to opt for a short-term guy via trade like Brook Lopez, Capela, Mitch Robinson, Steven Adams reunion, etc.

the fear I had with Harty and OKC is more they would offer him some outsized 2 year deal that would expire before the big extensions kick in for Chet/Jalen. Something like 2/55 or 60 or something like that. The recent reporting from Jake Fischer seems to indicate maybe OKC is looking elsewhere, which works for me.

I'm hoping for fans' sake this means they're finally committing to a rebuild (and crucially, ensuring they don't convey their 1st round pick next year to San Antonio or whoever it is they owe it to).

I think Giddey makes a lot of sense for them (and coincidentally, I had just started playing 2K again and running a franchise where I control all of the teams and I had traded Giddey to Chicago for Vucevic straight up).

I think Giddey was a little overrated as a prospect and became grossly overrated with the Thunder (I still remember the guys at The Ringer confidently proclaiming that he was going to be on a max contract with OKC either last offseason or earlier this season), but he's a pretty talented player and I think if you get him to buy back in on rebuilding his value, he can prove to be an adequate defender. He's really gotta learn how to shoot though; he's just not effective enough offensively without it, especially if he's relegated to an off-ball role.

At any rate, hopefully they find a taker for Vucevic and either find a taker for Lavine or try to rehab his value before the deadline and then look to move him.

The thing with Giddey is he is about to get expensive. He's young, I get it, they should be rebuilding. They probably should've just taken the good draft pick packages they were reported to have been asking for and then offered but then they decided they liked Giddey too much. This may be a little too reductive, but when the Thunder and the Bulls make a pure player for player trade, my default assumption will be the Thunder mad the better evaluation (especially when it confirms my priors)

I feel like the Bulls are going to bring Derozan back.

 

[Melancer46]

Any rumors on what Knicks will do? Seems like they will try to reup OG and IHart. Not seeing many other concrete rumors beyond contract management stuff and hypotheticals.

Knicks probably owe it to themselves to see what damage a healthy Randle + OG + Brunson combo can do before making a call on what to do with Randle long term. I really hope they don’t knee-jerk extend him but who knows maybe those three are the core of a title winning team?

I think Knicks still need a legit 2 to take pressure off of Brunson and let Donte cook off the bench. And a back up stretch 4… but is that Bogey when healthy?

The injuries from last year stunk… I think they could have competed with the Celtics better than anyone else did.

Only buzz I’ve seen is Hartenstein is expected to return. OG maybe not (could definitely just be negotiating through the media though). Some Mitch Robinson trade buzz.

And re: draft, I’ve heard Thibs likes Ryan Dunn from Virginia, and they’re likely to trade one of the picks.

 

[Knicks411]

Only buzz I’ve seen is Hartenstein is expected to return. OG maybe not (could definitely just be negotiating through the media though). Some Mitch Robinson trade buzz.

And re: draft, I’ve heard Thibs likes Ryan Dunn from Virginia, and they’re likely to trade one of the picks.

If they let OG walk it would be a complete failure so I continue to ignore the possibility of it happening

 

[Day2]

Any rumors on what Knicks will do? Seems like they will try to reup OG and IHart. Not seeing many other concrete rumors beyond contract management stuff and hypotheticals.

Knicks probably owe it to themselves to see what damage a healthy Randle + OG + Brunson combo can do before making a call on what to do with Randle long term. I really hope they don’t knee-jerk extend him but who knows maybe those three are the core of a title winning team?

I think Knicks still need a legit 2 to take pressure off of Brunson and let Donte cook off the bench. And a back up stretch 4… but is that Bogey when healthy?

The injuries from last year stunk… I think they could have competed with the Celtics better than anyone else did.

Trading for Paul George is a possibility.

 

[OrangeFoo]

If they let OG walk it would be a complete failure so I continue to ignore the possibility of it happening

Such a failure that I would encourage Dolan to ready his “you’re fired” talks.

I’m just surprised they haven’t announced it yet.

 

[OrangeFoo]

Trading for Paul George is a possibility.

Sounds like Philly is in the lead if the Clippers decide to go there? Personally I think he stays in LA.

 

[Fireball Jr.]

I’m 75 1/2 today, getting deeper into the winter of my life by the second, I just hope I make it to next June to see HIllbilly Kobe help take his first-year coach’s team to the promised land.

 

[Day2]

Sounds like Philly is in the lead if the Clippers decide to go there? Personally I think he stays in LA.

Philly isn’t happening. They don’t want to give him the max deal he wants. (No one does.)

He probably will stay in LA, once he realizes he’s not getting a better offer.

 

[Melancer46]

Sounds like Philly is in the lead if the Clippers decide to go there? Personally I think he stays in LA.

It sounds like Philly planted the seed in the media that they are not getting him this week.

 

[Knicks411]

If Philly doesnt want to give PG the max then I dont know what they're doing

 

[Day2]

If Philly doesnt want to give PG the max then I dont know what they're doing

It’s the number of years. PG wants four. So far, no one is willing to give that to him. (And who cam blame them?)

 

[Melancer46]

If Philly doesnt want to give PG the max then I dont know what they're doing

I'm guessing it's more just that Paul George doesn't want to sign with Philly but maybe we'll never really know what the hang up was. It feels like easily the best situation for him if he wants to win and get paid while doing it.

 

[Knicks411]

It’s the number of years. PG wants four. So far, no one is willing to give that to him. (And who cam blame them?)

If I'm Philly I don't really care all that much about year 4. I have Embiid, who knows what he's gonna look like then? I'm trying to win a title now.

I'm guessing it's more just that Paul George doesn't want to sign with Philly but maybe we'll never really know what the hang up was. It feels like easily the best situation for him if he wants to win and get paid while doing it.

Yeah to be clear I took the same thing away from that leak that you did; that PG wasn't showing interest in going to Philly. Jake Fischer was on with Nate Duncan yesterday and said he thought if PG left the Clippers it would more likely be through an opt in and trade than signing as a FA, and that no one outside of Philly really thought PG wanted to go there.

 

[Day2]

If I'm Philly I don't really care all that much about year 4. I have Embiid, who knows what he's gonna look like then? I'm trying to win a title now.



Yeah to be clear I took the same thing away from that leak that you did; that PG wasn't showing interest in going to Philly. Jake Fischer was on with Nate Duncan yesterday and said he thought if PG left the Clippers it would more likely be through an opt in and trade than signing as a FA, and that no one outside of Philly really thought PG wanted to go there.

This is Daryl Morey we’re talking about. His top priority is himself. He decided last month he didn’t want to give PG a four-year deal and has been up to his usual shenanigans since.

PG has talked to Harden, so you’re probably right in that he has some reservations about going to Philly. Still, he’ll go there if they give him the max for four years. That’s what it will take for him to leave the Clippers.

 

[Knicks411]

This is Daryl Morey we’re talking about. His top priority is himself. He decided last month he didn’t want to give PG a four-year deal and has been up to his usual shenanigans since.

PG has talked to Harden, so you’re probably right in that he has some reservations about going to Philly. Still, he’ll go there if they give him the max for four years. That’s what it will take for him to leave the Clippers.

I’m not sure I get where you’re going with Morey. I think there’s a good chance he’s not in Philly in four years so even more reason not to balk at giving him the fourth year.

 

[Melancer46]

If I'm Philly I don't really care all that much about year 4. I have Embiid, who knows what he's gonna look like then? I'm trying to win a title now.



Yeah to be clear I took the same thing away from that leak that you did; that PG wasn't showing interest in going to Philly. Jake Fischer was on with Nate Duncan yesterday and said he thought if PG left the Clippers it would more likely be through an opt in and trade than signing as a FA, and that no one outside of Philly really thought PG wanted to go there.

To that end, I think Windhorst was subtly implying yesterday that the Bucks are trying to position themselves for a PG trade.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

To that end, I think Windhorst was subtly implying yesterday that the Bucks are trying to position themselves for a PG trade.

"Hmm. What is going on in Milwaukee?"

 

[Melancer46]

"Hmm. What is going on in Milwaukee?"

Yeah lol I think he said something along the lines of Doc wanting to shake things up and he didn’t specifically mention Paul George but he said everyone keeps bringing up Philly and the Knicks, but we need to keep our eyes on Milwaukee and he specifically said Giannis/Dame are staying.

I tend to think Brook or Portis are much more likely to be dealt than Middleton but I don’t think it was an accident that Windy didn’t include him along with Giannis/Dame.