2023 NY Mets thread

[OrangeFoo]

Any good will Cohen has left would be tossed out of the window. Alonso is one of the few homegrown players that the Mets have gotten right. Trading him would be the signal they're tearing it down and punting for the next few years.

Is that the worst strategy? I've posted his before, but right now the Mets roster is constructed VERY poorly.
- All of their pitchers other than Senga are at the end of their careers and falling off a cliff or young and bad. There is no pitching help on the farm for the next few seasons either.
- Their veteran batters are all at the back end of their careers
- Lindor is at the backend of his primes and seems to be really falling off
- That leaves Nimmo, McNeil and Alonso as the only hitters in their primes
- Then we have Alvarez, Baty, Mauricio, Vientos as the future

Unless Cohen plans on spending $500mm next offseason I don't see a path for the Mets to improve their pitching enough to the point where they can compete in the next 2/3 seasons. The fastest way to rebuild their pitching is to trade assets for it. If you are GM do your trade one asset in Pete for a monster return or two or three in Mauricio, Vientos, Paredes, etc for smaller returns while continuing to bleed the farm dry? I don't have a great answer... but I do think trading Pete or McNeil or Nimmo for that matter is a strategy worth evaluating. Not saying it's the right strategy but it needs to be considered. This team isn't going anywhere in the near future unless the pitching is rebuilt and even then they need to get really lucky on hitting on any young pitching talent they can bring in.

The other issue I see is why do hitters seem to consistently underperform their baseball cards when they get to the Mets? And when the leave they Mets they are all of the sudden better hitters. Turner, Murphy, D'arnaud, Rosario, JD Davis, Alfonso... all hitters who got better after leaving the Mets. I have seen talent from McNeil, Alonso, Nimmo, but I haven't seen anything from them to lead me to believe they are the heart of a WS winning lineup. Is it really the pressure of NYC or is there something rotten at Citi Field when it come to hitting? The Yanks don't seem to have this problem.

 

[OrangeFoo]

The Mets spent $445 million for MLB’s most underachieving team. Can it turn?

Billionaire Steve Cohen fielded the most expensive team in baseball history. But as summer arrives, a playoff spot is increasingly elusive.

theathletic.com

MSN

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MSN

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Submit your questions for an upcoming Mets mailbag

Checking in on the Mets after a rough month and a challenging stretch against the reigning world champs and the defending NL champs.

theathletic.com

I think this will be the first true indicator of what kind of owner Cohen will be... is he going to bet on hope and continue to let this underperforming team play it out or will he take a pragmatic data driven approach to make decisions. I bet the businessman Cohen would tear this thing apart and try to set up for future years... I'm concerned the fanboy owner Cohen is going to try to let this thing keep going because he doesn't want to bottom out.

 

[sutomcat]

The Mets sent Tylor Megill down to Syracuse. Called up Vinny Nitolli to replace him. Nitolli was recently pIckes up from the Cubs and pitched well in Syracuse, with three straight scoreless outings.

They called a reliever up to replace a starter because the bullpen is short a man due to Drew Smith getting suspended for 10 games for having sticky hands.

The Mets are expected to call up Lucchesi or Peterson (please Lucchesi) to replace Tylor in a couple of days or go with Senga on normal rest. Quintana is close to rejoining the rotation but unfortunately needs just a bit more time.

I wonder if the Mets might try and convert Megill to a reliever while he is down at Syracuse? He is capable of throwing 98 or 99 mph. Might be his best chance for long term success.

Good time to see the Mets with Vientos, Mauricio, Megill, Peterson and Lucchesi all on the roster (at least for now). And Voit…..

 

[MSOrange]

 

[NYCCuse826]

Is that the worst strategy? I've posted his before, but right now the Mets roster is constructed VERY poorly.
- All of their pitchers other than Senga are at the end of their careers and falling off a cliff or young and bad. There is no pitching help on the farm for the next few seasons either.
- Their veteran batters are all at the back end of their careers
- Lindor is at the backend of his primes and seems to be really falling off
- That leaves Nimmo, McNeil and Alonso as the only hitters in their primes
- Then we have Alvarez, Baty, Mauricio, Vientos as the future

Unless Cohen plans on spending $500mm next offseason I don't see a path for the Mets to improve their pitching enough to the point where they can compete in the next 2/3 seasons. The fastest way to rebuild their pitching is to trade assets for it. If you are GM do your trade one asset in Pete for a monster return or two or three in Mauricio, Vientos, Paredes, etc for smaller returns while continuing to bleed the farm dry? I don't have a great answer... but I do think trading Pete or McNeil or Nimmo for that matter is a strategy worth evaluating. Not saying it's the right strategy but it needs to be considered. This team isn't going anywhere in the near future unless the pitching is rebuilt and even then they need to get really lucky on hitting on any young pitching talent they can bring in.

The other issue I see is why do hitters seem to consistently underperform their baseball cards when they get to the Mets? And when the leave they Mets they are all of the sudden better hitters. Turner, Murphy, D'arnaud, Rosario, JD Davis, Alfonso... all hitters who got better after leaving the Mets. I have seen talent from McNeil, Alonso, Nimmo, but I haven't seen anything from them to lead me to believe they are the heart of a WS winning lineup. Is it really the pressure of NYC or is there something rotten at Citi Field when it come to hitting? The Yanks don't seem to have this problem.

Yes it is. If you're willing to punt for the next 4-5 years, go for it. You remember what Citi Field looked like pre trade deadline in 2015? I do. That's the future of the organization if Cohen goes down that path.

The roster isn't poorly constructed. The starting rotation hasn't done their job. Senga has the lowest ERA at ~3.50. That's the problem. When the Mets had a chance to improve at the deadline, their additions were Givens, Naquin, Ruf and Vogelbach. Billy Eppler was given a blank check and showed what not to do.

The Mets go in this direction, I find something else to do during the Summer. I'm not sitting through another rebuild or just an era of bad baseball.

 

[sutomcat]

I wish Eppler had more conviction. It was obvious Baty was the better player at 3B all spring. The best play would have been to trade Escobar during the off season, when his value was highest.

But Billy started the season with Escobar at 3B. When it was obvious he still wasn’’t doing the job there, and Baty was one of the best prospects in AAA, he finally called Baty up and the Mets have mostly played Baty as the 3B.

That wouldn’t have been a bad time to trade Eduardo.

But no, wait a couple of months for Escobar’s trade value to continue to drop and trade him then. Neither of the prospects they got are close to MLB ready and neither is a hard thrower or a can’t miss prospect.

Happy for Eduardo, who ends up on a team with a better chance to make the playoffs and presumably will get a chance to play every day. This opens a spot on the roster for an infielder. That player will probably be Mendick, but who knows, maybe they throw the dice and give 2B to Mauricio, I seriously doubt it,

 

[SWC75]

I'd make this trade but one guy's already gone and I suspect that's all that will come of it.

MSN

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[OrangeFoo]

I'd make this trade but one guy's already gone and I suspect that's all that will come of it.

MSN

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For a half year rental?

 

[sutomcat]

For a half year rental?

It would be another incredibly stupid move to give the Angels so much for a few months of use.

At this point, the Angels have waited so long that the return they should expect for Ohtani is greatly reduced. I don’t think even Eppler is dumb enough to do something like this.

Barring a miracle. Ohtani is going to be a Dodger next year. They have the cap space and they have the need.

Too bad, he would have been fun to watch in the Mets.

 

[OrangeFoo]

It would be another incredibly stupid move to give the Angels so much for a few months of use.

At this point, the Angels have waited so long that the return they should expect for Ohtani is greatly reduced. I don’t think even Eppler is dumb enough to do something like this.

Barring a miracle. Ohtani is going to be a Dodger next year. They have the cap space and they have the need.

Too bad, he would have been fun to watch in the Mets.

Yep... Mets need elite players and the closest they have in talent is Alvarez. But he’s not there yet. Pete is too inconsistent, not sure if it’s because he’s pushing too hard to make up for the rest of the crappy lineup or what. When he is locked in, he is the one of best power hitters in baseball but that only seems to happen in stretches.

 

[SWC75]

For a half year rental?

Maybe it would give the inside track on re-signing him in the free agent market.

They are still hyping a version of this trade:

MSN

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And of course one of the players in that deal appears in this rumored trade:

MSN

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[SWC75]

How the Mets Became a $359 Million Mess​

MSN

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[SWC75]

Scherzer looked like Scherzer for the second straight start. Our top 3 guys all had 2 hits.

Concerned that Alvarez is now 4 for 30 with no homers in his last 9 games.

 

[sutomcat]

That was a nice win. The team functions a lot better when they play well defensively.

Carrasco against Wheeler tomorrow. That doesn’t look like a win on paper but you never know in baseball.

This is a big game for Carlos, who was just moved between Max and Justin. Jose Quintana is also pitching tomorrow for Brooklyn and if he pitches well, I would not be surprised to see him replace Carlos next start, with Lucchesi who again pitched well for Syracuse yesterday, getting called up to replace Megill.

The 3 game series against the Brewers will be interesting. Verlander should start Monday. Senga is currently scheduled to pitch Wednesday, which would be on 4 days rest. Would rather see Lucchesi pitch Wednesday (he is used to pitching on 4 days rest), and bump Senga to Thursday.

No one appears to know what the Mets are doing on Tuesday. I don’t think they can call Megill up unless there is an injury. Butto pitched today and won’t be ready. Lucchesi pitched yesterday and won’t be ready.

So I think it is either Peterson or the Mets make it a bullpen game. That would be hard with the Met starting pitchers so rarely getting deep in games, and things are worse than normal with Smith suspended and the bullpen forced to run a man short.. If it is Peterson, he has been struggling in Syracuse and I would expect him to get bombed.

The final option would be to give the start to Mike Vasil, who is now probably the Mets best pitching prospect. Mike was a first round draft choice in 2021. He is 6’5. 23 years old. Can touch 96 or so on the radar gun. Held hitters to a .187 BA in AA this season. Was recently called up to Syracuse, where he got bombed and then pitched quite effectively his second. Too early to go to the bigs but the Mets are desperate enough that I guess it is possible.

 

[SWC75]

That was a nice win. The team functions a lot better when they play well defensively.

Carrasco against Wheeler tomorrow. That doesn’t look like a win on paper but you never know in baseball.

This is a big game for Carlos, who was just moved between Max and Justin. Jose Quintana is also pitching tomorrow for Brooklyn and if he pitches well, I would not be surprised to see him replace Carlos next start, with Lucchesi who again pitched well for Syracuse yesterday, getting called up to replace Megill.

The 3 game series against the Brewers will be interesting. Verlander should start Monday. Senga is currently scheduled to pitch Wednesday, which would be on 4 days rest. Would rather see Lucchesi pitch Wednesday (he is used to pitching on 4 days rest), and bump Senga to Thursday.

No one appears to know what the Mets are doing on Tuesday. I don’t think they can call Megill up unless there is an injury. Butto pitched today and won’t be ready. Lucchesi pitched yesterday and won’t be ready.

So I think it is either Peterson or the Mets make it a bullpen game. That would be hard with the Met starting pitchers so rarely getting deep in games, and things are worse than normal with Smith suspended and the bullpen forced to run a man short.. If it is Peterson, he has been struggling in Syracuse and I would expect him to get bombed.

The final option would be to give the start to Mike Vasil, who is now probably the Mets best pitching prospect. Mike was a first round draft choice in 2021. He is 6’5. 23 years ago. Can touch 96 or so on the radar gun. Held hitters to a .187 BA in AA this season. Was recently called up to Syracuse, where he got bombed and then pitched quite effectively his second. Too early to go to the bigs but the Mets are desperate enough that I guess it is possible.

Mike Vasil was 6-5 23 years ago? What is he now?

Meanwhile, here's proposals for Verlander and Scherzer:

Bowden: Mets, Cardinals need to consider ‘selling’: Batting around 5 trade ideas

Examining five trade concepts that, though likely unpopular with fans, might make sense if the Mets and/or Cardinals decide to sell.

theathletic.com

Mets Mailbag on trading deadline strategy, how Vientos was handled and an interesting comparison between the Mets and the Rays:

Mets Mailbag, Part 1: What should happen at the deadline? Who’s to blame for this mess?

What would convince the Mets to be sellers? Are any coaches in danger of getting let go? We answer those questions and more.

theathletic.com

"So far this season, the Mets have had 779 plate appearances taken by a player who is 32 or older. The Rays have had zero. The Mets have faced 1,139 batters with a pitcher 32 or older. The Rays have 109."

 

[OrangeFoo]

Yes it is. If you're willing to punt for the next 4-5 years, go for it. You remember what Citi Field looked like pre trade deadline in 2015? I do. That's the future of the organization if Cohen goes down that path.

The roster isn't poorly constructed. The starting rotation hasn't done their job. Senga has the lowest ERA at ~3.50. That's the problem. When the Mets had a chance to improve at the deadline, their additions were Givens, Naquin, Ruf and Vogelbach. Billy Eppler was given a blank check and showed what not to do.

The Mets go in this direction, I find something else to do during the Summer. I'm not sitting through another rebuild or just an era of bad baseball.

I’ve already found something else to do this summer. This team stinks… while I agree the pitching is the main problem, the other guys can’t hit for average, can only occasionally hit for power, generally suck with batters in scoring position, and have turned into little league level fielders.

Do you really think there is a path to a title with this team? If so I would love to hear what that path is.

 

[SWC75]

I’ve already found something else to do this summer. This team stinks… while I agree the pitching is the main problem, the other guys can’t hit for average, can only occasionally hit for power, generally suck with batters in scoring position, and have turned into little league level fielders.

Do you really think there is a path to a title with this team? If so I would love to hear what that path is.

Do the things they did last year and begin to get the young talent into the line-up. Also get a couple of starting pitchers who aren't past their prime.

 

[OrangeFoo]

Do the things they did last year and begin to get the young talent into the line-up. Also get a couple of starting pitchers who aren't past their prime.

Wholeheartedly agree…. Where are they going to get two starting pitchers in their prime without trading a big player like an Alonso or gutting the farm.

 

[SWC75]

Wholeheartedly agree…. Where are they going to get two starting pitchers in their prime without trading a big player like an Alonso or gutting the farm.

How long do Scherzer's and Verlander's contracts run? It can't be very long. Get some younger free agents.

Looked it up. They both run out after next year - unless they decide to retire.

JB enjoying retirement

brief article, nice video

syracusefan.com

 

[kirbivore]

 

[sutomcat]

Walker and Brigham just gave the game to the Phillies. Even with all the walks and hit by pitches, they would likely get out of the inning and win if Baty could just make a routine throw to McNeil to start a DP.

Buck didn’t help waiting so long to bring in Nattoli.

No bullpen depth and bad fielding kill the Mets again. Carrasco wasn’t great but was good enough.

Nice try see Pete hit an HR opposite field. That usually is a sign he is about to go on a tear. Let’s hope so.

 

[ScrabbCuse]

I looked through the schedule so far and the Mets have lost 12 games when scoring six or more runs. Just brutal. Tells you all you need to know about this pitching staff.

 

[SWC75]

What happened to Mets’ Tylor Megill and David Peterson? ‘Losing their best pitches’

Pitching coach Jeremy Hefner explains what has caused both hurlers to take steps back this season.

theathletic.com

Mets’ brutal loss to Phillies is a new low as the questions mount up high

The disastrous bottom of the eighth served as a twin indictment of the club’s roster construction and its roster management.

theathletic.com

Mets’ trade deadline options, Arraez’s MVP chances and more: McCullough’s mailbag

Andy McCullough answers reader questions ahead of a huge month in the MLB season.

theathletic.com

This Week in Mets: 5 more takeaways on Sunday’s meltdown and the state of the Mets

Taking stock after the worst of the Mets’ 42 losses this season.

theathletic.com

 

[OrangeFoo]

What happened to Mets’ Tylor Megill and David Peterson? ‘Losing their best pitches’

Pitching coach Jeremy Hefner explains what has caused both hurlers to take steps back this season.

theathletic.com

Mets’ brutal loss to Phillies is a new low as the questions mount up high

The disastrous bottom of the eighth served as a twin indictment of the club’s roster construction and its roster management.

theathletic.com

Mets’ trade deadline options, Arraez’s MVP chances and more: McCullough’s mailbag

Andy McCullough answers reader questions ahead of a huge month in the MLB season.

theathletic.com

This Week in Mets: 5 more takeaways on Sunday’s meltdown and the state of the Mets

Taking stock after the worst of the Mets’ 42 losses this season.

theathletic.com

The daggers are out for the team with the highest payroll in baseball... This is two years in a row that the Eppler, "optional arms", bullpen strategy has resulted in a tire fire of a bullpen other than the closer. Yes losing Diaz really hurts... but this team struggled to get to Diaz last year. I guess having a Robertson bridge to Diaz would have made this look better.

I also no longer believe that Alonso, McNeil, Nimmo, Lindor are the core of a WS winning lineup. They have generally demonstrated that they are extremely streaky and when the pressure is on their fundamentals go completely out the window. The Mets have some sort of endemic hitting problem... hitters don't perform to their levels with the Mets and get better after they leave the Mets.

 

[SWC75]

The daggers are out for the team with the highest payroll in baseball... This is two years in a row that the Eppler, "optional arms", bullpen strategy has resulted in a tire fire of a bullpen other than the closer. Yes losing Diaz really hurts... but this team struggled to get to Diaz last year. I guess having a Robertson bridge to Diaz would have made this look better.

I also no longer believe that Alonso, McNeil, Nimmo, Lindor are the core of a WS winning lineup. They have generally demonstrated that they are extremely streaky and when the pressure is on their fundamentals go completely out the window. The Mets have some sort of endemic hitting problem... hitters don't perform to their levels with the Mets and get better after they leave the Mets.

That's been going on for a while.