Abrupt change in recruiting...

[Alsacs]

Neither of those guys think they can take Kadary, that's the bottom line. Good luck to them at their new schools.

Quincy Guerrier was higher rated composite wise than Kadary Richmond.

Richmond has to be the 3rd guard because we literally don’t have anyone else.

We are hoping it works. Nobody has a clue right now how it will work.

If Richmond is Guerrier like in production with rebounds changed for assists I would be happy. 6.9 PPG, 3 APG would be a win right now.

Hyping up Richmond doesn’t help unless the rankings massively underrated him.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

If Carey/Goodine performed well in practice, they would have played. To think they were stellar in practice and JB just flat out refused to play them in games in silly. JB even made a comment in FEBRUARY last year that Brycen was finally practicing better. 2 weeks before the season ended.

will they be good players at PC and URI? Certainly possible. But how often had a kid transfer out and he was fantastic at his new school?

Kaleb Joseph averaged 4 points a game at Creighton.

Matt Moyer averaged 3 points a game at Vandy.

Taurean Thompson played in 1 game last year at Seton Hall (and scored 4 points). I guess that's an average of 4 ppg.

 

[Col. Bleep]

...JB even made a comment in FEBRUARY last year that Brycen was finally practicing better. 2 weeks before the season ended...

Sometimes it takes time for a player to elevate his game to the next level.
Sometimes a great high school player just isn't a great college player.
And sometimes a talented player is just not a good fit.

Goodine may become a very good college player.
Maybe Carey as well.
But they just didn't work out for the Orange.

Is that poor recruiting?
Poor player development?
Poor effort by the athlete?
Or just life?

We don't know for sure...yet.
But any program where recruits consistently don't work out is in for trouble.
(I'm not saying that's the case for SU...yet).
Whether anyone likes it or not...that is going to wind up on the staff.

 

[Alsacs]

Kaleb Joseph averaged 4 points a game at Creighton.

Matt Moyer averaged 3 points a game at Vandy.

Taurean Thompson played in 1 game last year at Seton Hall (and scored 4 points). I guess that's an average of 4 ppg.

Our coaching staff targeted each of them. Who did we get to replace them?

We have had a roster with scholarship reductions and a massive amount of whiffs.

That is on the staff. I wonder why we have been mediocre 5 regular seasons in a row.

 

[CousCuse]

Quincy Guerrier was higher rated composite wise than Kadary Richmond.

Richmond has to be the 3rd guard because we literally don’t have anyone else.

We are hoping it works. Nobody has a clue right now how it will work.

If Richmond is Guerrier like in production with rebounds changed for assists I would be happy. 6.9 PPG, 3 APG would be a win right now.

Hyping up Richmond doesn’t help unless the rankings massively underrated him.

Grif is a guard. Carey and Goodine didn't get any offers from power teams, not even UW and Hop must have been watching them. I also am very bullish on young Owens.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

Our coaching staff targeted each of them. Who did we get to replace them?

We have had a roster with scholarship reductions and a massive amount of whiffs.

That is on the staff. I wonder why we have been mediocre 5 regular seasons in a row.

Thompson was replaced by Oshae.

Joseph was replaced by Gillon.

Moyer was replaced by Hughes.

 

[Alsacs]

Grif is a guard. Carey and Goodine didn't get any offers from power teams, not even UW and Hop must have been watching them. I also am very bullish on young Owens.

Jalen Carey was offered by Kansas, Indiana, Villanova, Miami, Florida, Notre Dame, Iowa State, Seton Hall, UConn, Minnesota, Pittsburgh, Virginia.

I guess those aren’t power teams.


Goodine was offered by every team in New England including BC, PC, UMass, UConn he committed to us so early he didn’t even pursue other teams.

He was the top recruit from MA and a legit 4 star.

These were stud recruits when we got them.

 

[Alsacs]

Thompson was replaced by Oshae.

Joseph was replaced by Gillon.

Moyer was replaced by Hughes.

This is a nice job of spin.
Oshae was committed well before Moyer busted out here.

Gillon was a band aid one year grad transfer that is a great replacement for Kaleb Joseph. I wish we had a recruit like Gillon here 4 years.
He was a good offensive PG.

The roster has been mismanaged for years. It’s been thin and not stocked for departures it has caught up.

The people who can’t be objective and just want to make excuses can do that.

I have no problem with being medicore if we accept that is what we have become. We have had great success under Jim Boeheim and he deserves a lot of credit for that. Right now this program is a shell of what it was previously. We aren’t a top of the conference team with top talent.

We are plucky team that can make runs because of our HOF HC system can work in the tournament against teams unprepared for it when it was defensive personnel.

I don’t spin and make it look better than it is.

The recruiting has gone down or the coaches picking the recruits have done a terrible job finding fits for the system.

Either way it is on the staff.

 

[Cusefan69]

All I'm saying is can we please for our programs sake and our recruiting hurry some of these recruits up. Also if we are going to lose Dior and out on Gayle this week can we please replace them with equal recruits. Lindsay and Copeland are not in their tier. Also I have been advocating for a recruiting change we need to take GMAC and put him in a secondary role when it comes to recruiting let Adrian and Griff take the lead. GMAC has had swing and misses then when he does finally get on base he gets picked off first base as we saw this week.

 

[Cusefan0307]

A lot of this thread is crying over spilled milk from 2016-2018. I think recruiting has ticked up since then.

People are complaining about 2022 when we still don’t know who we will sign.

Griffin/Richmond/Anselem/Williams are all great gets. Girard is only going to get better.

It was always going to be hard to sign guys for 2022 once we knew players got an extra year.

I’m choosing to be optimistic about this year and the near future. We have a lot of underclassmen that will improve.

 

[Alsacs]

Not fair. Autry and Griffin do a good job.

Biggest reason is GMAC he can't be front man.

GMac is doing a good job.
He is fine.

He isn’t the top assistant or head coach.
He is building relationships and growing in the role.
He isn’t the issue. We need our big dogs going up against other teams big dogs.

 

[CousCuse]

Jalen Carey was offered by Kansas, Indiana, Villanova, Miami, Florida, Notre Dame, Iowa State, Seton Hall, UConn, Minnesota, Pittsburgh, Virginia.

I guess those aren’t power teams.


Goodine was offered by every team in New England including BC, PC, UMass, UConn he committed to us so early he didn’t even pursue other teams.

He was the top recruit from MA and a legit 4 star.

These were stud recruits when we got them.

Neither guy was offered anything close to that after they saw them play at the college level.

 

[Alsacs]

A lot of this thread is crying over spilled milk from 2016-2018. I think recruiting has ticked up since then.

People are complaining about 2022 when we still don’t know who we will sign.

Griffin/Richmond/Anselem/Williams are all great gets. Girard is only going to get better.

It was always going to be hard to sign guys for 2022 once we knew players got an extra year.

I’m choosing to be optimistic about this year and the near future. We have a lot of underclassmen that will improve.

I can’t argue with this.
You are saying you are choosing to be optimistic which is fine and I respect.
I am just from Missouri with this roster.

I think the team will be as good as Marek and Sidibe continue playing well like they did at the end of the year.
Griffin replaces Hughes production. If they continue playing well we can get easy points and not rely on shooting well every game.

I am not seeing the guards being a lot better unless Kadary is playing minutes from Buddy and Girard again when you play 40 I think you are what the stats say you are. Our guard play being better relies on Richmond actually getting minutes from the incumbents.

If Girard and Buddy are playing 35+ every game I don’t see us being significantly better.

That is it. We need an all around team to actually be a threat.

Until I see it I will be a realist. I hope you are right.

Recruiting being a problem because players see short rotations is a problem. Especially with every player getting an extra year.

 

[Alsacs]

Neither guy was offered anything close to that after they saw them play at the college level.

So basically by this logic because BJ Johnson went to LaSalle and became a great player it means nothing because he went to that powerhouse known as LaSalle.

 

[Cusefan0307]

I can’t argue with this.
You are saying you are choosing to be optimistic which is fine and I respect.
I am just from Missouri with this roster.

I think the team will be as good as Marek and Sidibe continue playing well like they did at the end of the year.
Griffin replaces Hughes production. If they continue playing well we can get easy points and not rely on shooting well every game.

I am not seeing the guards being a lot better unless Kadary is playing minutes from Buddy and Girard again when you play 40 I think you are what the stats say you are. Our guard play being better relies on Richmond actually getting minutes from the incumbents.

If Girard and Buddy are playing 35+ every game I don’t see us being significantly better.

That is it. We need an all around team to actually be a threat.

Until I see it I will be a realist. I hope you are right.

Recruiting being a problem because players see short rotations is a problem. Especially with every player getting an extra year.

Girard was only a freshman. He will certainly improve. Buddy has completely outperformed expectations of most people since he started here. I get he’s a lightning rod for the fans, but I don’t necessarily think he’s a finished project either.

I hope JB plays Richmond with both on the floor. I think this team has a real shot at being elite offensively. If we get just marginal improvement on defense we will win 12-14 ACC games and that’s where I’ve seen a lot of analytic sites project us.

 

[Alsacs]

Girard was only a freshman. He will certainly improve. Buddy has completely outperformed expectations of most people since he started here. I get he’s a lightning rod for the fans, but I don’t necessarily think he’s a finished project either.

I hope JB plays Richmond with both on the floor. I think this team has a real shot at being elite offensively. If we get just marginal improvement on defense we will win 12-14 ACC games and that’s where I’ve seen a lot of analytic sites project us.

If we play Richmond with Girard,Buddy and Griffin we will get killed on the glass.
We struggle rebounding as it is.

I really hope that isn’t a lineup we play that much unless it’s the end of the game offensive situations.

I don’t know how that roster gets stops without turnovers.

 

[Cusefan0307]

If we play Richmond with Girard,Buddy and Griffin we will get killed on the glass.
We struggle rebounding as it is.

I really hope that isn’t a lineup we play that much unless it’s the end of the game offensive situations.

I don’t know how that roster gets stops without turnovers.

That’s nothing new here.

Griffin is going to end up being a really good rebounder anyway. His per 40 rebounding numbers are very good.

 

[Sherman20]

So here’s the quandary with the fan base with SU from what I have learned from this board ... everyone Wants the most elite players but complain up a storm when they don’t land them and say they should have been recruiting other players and not the top recruits because it ends up being a waste of time.
thennnn if they get the #92 ranked player, the staff shoulda been recruiting better players and didn’t work hard enough to land the big fish And the #92 ranked recruit is worthy enough to be at Syracuse

PLEASE MAKE UP YOUR MIND

You’re painting with a very broad brushstroke in characterizing this board and the fan base in general. There’s much more diversity of opinion on here as far as I can see. Also, a fan board like this, by its very nature, is comprised mostly of die-hards whose opinions tend to be a little more, shall we say, heated.

Sure, the wider fan base might be getting a bit restless about the mostly mediocre results (by SU standards) since 2015 and the slight downturn in recruiting, but they know there are extenuating circumstances, and they figure we just have to be patient until we get our mojo back. I think the 2016 Final Four and the 2018 Sweet 16 have helped alleviate some of the concern.

 

[Sherman20]

Quincy Guerrier was higher rated composite wise than Kadary Richmond.

Richmond has to be the 3rd guard because we literally don’t have anyone else.

We are hoping it works. Nobody has a clue right now how it will work.

If Richmond is Guerrier like in production with rebounds changed for assists I would be happy. 6.9 PPG, 3 APG would be a win right now.

Hyping up Richmond doesn’t help unless the rankings massively underrated him.

He’s really good and the rankings on him were way off. He was first team all NEPSAC, one of the best high school leagues in the country. Why are people always concerned about hyping up a player? If he underperforms expectations, BFD. And no one’s saying he’s gonna be a superstar from day1. But it’s clear he’ll be an immediate impact contributor and is a very good long term prospect.

 

[Sudano]

You're going to put a gun to his head and force him to sign?

Grow a backbone and have a judgement on an obviously results driven business.
When we fail or lose it's bad.

 

[orange79]

Grow a backbone and have a judgement on an obviously results driven business.
When we fail or lose it's bad.

What are you talking about?

 

[phil77]

With recruiting I think we have two major issues first is JB at some point he will retire. Some hope it is sooner rather than later but at some point in the near future he will leave. Are the 2022 recruits even going to be coached by JB? Who really knows.

Second, the style of basketball we play just isn't exciting. We are boring and stale. Our offense isn't pleasing to the eye and we tend to try and grind games out in the 50s rather than the 80s. Nobody in today's basketball wants to play that style. We might be able to snag a top recruit here or there if we promise him he will be the center of our ISO offense. And nobody wants to play in a zone defense. Sorry, it might be nice once it becomes tournament time because it catches teams off guard but nobody wants to play a full season of it anymore especially 16-18-year-old kids.

I think we have a boring stale brand of basketball that isn't appealing to top-flight recruits. Especially since we can't point to recent NBA success as an example that this is a pathway for NBA success like in the past.

 

[Melancer46]

With recruiting I think we have two major issues first is JB at some point he will retire. Some hope it is sooner rather than later but at some point in the near future he will leave. Are the 2022 recruits even going to be coached by JB? Who really knows.

Second, the style of basketball we play just isn't exciting. We are boring and stale. Our offense isn't pleasing to the eye and we tend to try and grind games out in the 50s rather than the 80s. Nobody in today's basketball wants to play that style. We might be able to snag a top recruit here or there if we promise him he will be the center of our ISO offense. And nobody wants to play in a zone defense. Sorry, it might be nice once it becomes tournament time because it catches teams off guard but nobody wants to play a full season of it anymore especially 16-18-year-old kids.

I think we have a boring stale brand of basketball that isn't appealing to top-flight recruits. Especially since we can't point to recent NBA success as an example that this is a pathway for NBA success like in the past.

Yep, our run of ____ consecutive years with 1st round picks was nice and all, but the only player that amounted to anything at all was Jerami Grant, who wasn't even a 1st round pick and no recruit will be excited if your selling point is that you could turn them into the next good role player in the NBA or worse.

Lack of results in the NBA, offensive scheme that doesn't really prepare guys well/showcase them all that well, defensive scheme that doesn't translate well, and who knows who your coach might be...it's not a great pitch right now.

 

[Zelda Zonk]

he was coming here. People that ended up being “right” had no inside info of the scenario. They were speculating so they could say “see I told ya so”. The kid loved the campus. Loved the coaches. But he has some wild stuff happening in his life that he needs to focus on and the staff helped every way they could. He was always priority 1 for staff

Respectfully—No.
You chose to oversimplify and put a bunch of different opinions, assessments, perspectives into one small box, and somehow simultaneously promote the perspectives of those who turned out to be wrong.

Not one of us didn't want him to come. People who didn't believe he would make it here actually turned out to be more realistic than those who did. And it has nothing to do with insider information. As it turns out, 'inside information' only goes so far if you don't actually factor in such things as Life, Changing Environments, Psychology, and again Life.

And even if it's true that some people enjoy saying 'I toldya so,' that's no different from people who get off on being the ones who said 'i told ya so' on the other side.

Bottom line: this is all speculation. Doesn't matter how much you think the kid loves the campus or the coaches. Kids are still kids. And as easily as they can love our stuff, they can fall in love with another school's stuff, or another scenario altogether. That's why they call'em "kids."

 

[pfister1]

there’s a reason most coaches do not survive 2 probations.

but hey at least JB is saving the school the extra airfare that other coaches rack up on recruiting visits.

Id be curious to know how much different JBs approach is than other older HoF caliber guys eg K, Roy, Izzo. I’m not sure kids want a 75 year old guy all over them all the time.