ACC, PAC-12, and BIG alliance / conference realignment

[Hoo's That]

Navy is not going to lure ND.

I agree. The only thing that would make ND think about joining a conference is if their only path to the national championship was through membership in a conference. By revising the playoff format to how it will be when it goes to 12 teams, Sankey accomplished two goals in one action, he made sure that more than one SEC team could get into the playoffs and ND had a viable path to the championship without conference membership. ND will gladly trade topping out in the 5 v. 12 game for their continued independence.

 

[Hoo's That]

"They are strong in non-revenue sports" so they add no (revenue) value?

To a TV contract, correct. For a perfect example, look at ND. While the other ACC members got $37 to 41 million each (depending on bowl participation) for 2022, ND got $17 million. ND got a $35 million full share for the 2020-21 school year when they played football in the ACC.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

If this were to happen, we’re back to divisions I would think…in an effort to reduce travel.

Not sure how it would work. I would think UW and Oregon would still like to head to the BIG

If the ACC took the Top 5 PAC schools you can go 3 + 5/5/5 format in FB and 1 (2 games) + 18 in BBall. In FB we would have 5 West Coast trips every 6 years. Not a burden. In BBall 5 trips in 2 years, which is a bit much.

 

[Jake]

Sorta feels like UW/Oregon -> B1G
Arizona/ASU/Utah -> big12
Oregon St/Wash State/Cal/Stanford -> screwed though I have a hard time seeing Stanford getting left out.

 

[Cheriehoop]

Ok my post will probably be stupid, maybe even childish - but who made FSU the king of ACC football? The past 8 years from 2015-2022 they have been 32-32 or just 50% within the ACC football conference. In those same 8 years they have been 58-40 overall. Are they saying they have stunk within the conference because they lack money and need much more money than their conference mates to be better than a meh ACC team?

Their best record in 8 years was last year when they went 10-3 overall with all 3 losses within conference. Has the ACC conference become too tough for them? Their best in conference record was back in 2015 with 6 wins, last year they had 5. Guess I don’t get where they think that they are the boss of the ACC to dictate anything? I admit I’m far from an expert but it makes no sense to me from my point of view just looking at the numbers.

 

[FreakTalksAboutSU]

Sorta feels like UW/Oregon -> B1G
Arizona/ASU/Utah -> big12
Oregon St/Wash State/Cal/Stanford -> screwed though I have a hard time seeing Stanford getting left out.

I think that push comes to shove Cal and Stanford end up in the B1G in that scenario. Would enable them a full 6 team western division, which could really help w football scheduling re travel

 

[Chris02M]

Yes I’ll give you that might be true but why else would FSU be coming out so publicly about this if that were the case. This all could be squashed by ND

Bc fsu is delusional about getting out of the gor?

 

[Chris02M]

Wrong way to think. You can expand for stability if it preserves the same TV payout per team. Washington and Oregon are worth more than $30M. Arizona State and Stanford are worth at least $30M. Cal is worth less but the average of those 5 is above. It won’t put more money in SU’s pocket but it makes the conference stronger.

We have a claus that will pay additional teams the pro rate so it's not that

 

[NJneer12]

The academies are competitive in the Patriot League but wouldn't stand a chance in the ACC. During one of the realignments, some folks were talking about bringing in Navy for football only as a lure for ND and have Gtown play in that slot for the other sports because their program is better.

Does this really matter anymore? What has UCLA done recently? What has Texas done? I would also think with the extra money, they would recruit better and develop better over time to be on par with the mids of the ACC.

The P2 are grabbing BRANDS, in big markets where a lot of people watch them, who are cultural fits. ACC wanting to stay within its footprint - it's these two programs at the top.

Looking at other teams who have done well recently in TV numbers(edit: that are not in the P5): Navy and Army total bring almost 2M viewers per game (Yes, Army-Navy at 7M helps the average). Tulane, Memphis, ECU, App State all get around 250k to 500k. Which is better than BC, VPI, Wake, Duke, Virginia.

Cuse has does pretty damn well (sans a 1-10 season with 50 players.) in viewership. I think we may be underestimate ourselves. lol

 

[Chris02M]

If this were to happen, we’re back to divisions I would think…in an effort to reduce travel.

Not sure how it would work. I would think UW and Oregon would still like to head to the BIG

I think divisions in Olympic sports with football staying as is a 3 perm rival and rotate the rest

 

[Orangezoo]

Ok my post will probably be stupid, maybe even childish - but who made FSU the king of ACC football? The past 8 years from 2015-2022 they have been 32-32 or just 50% within the ACC football conference. In those same 8 years they have been 58-40 overall. Are they saying they have stunk within the conference because they lack money and need much more money than their conference mates to be better than a meh ACC team?

Their best record in 8 years was last year when they went 10-3 overall with all 3 losses within conference. Has the ACC conference become too tough for them? Their best in conference record was back in 2015 with 6 wins, last year they had 5. Guess I don’t get where they think that they are the boss of the ACC to dictate anything? I admit I’m far from an expert but it makes no sense to me from my point of view just looking at the numbers.

Their athletics revenue is second in the ACC to UVA.. but they don't have enough money to compete...

Found this ( sorry if already posted) ..

Noles News: FSU generates second-highest athletic department revenue since 2005

Florida State sits No. 15 in country for revenue earned in 2022, second in ACC

www.tomahawknation.com

I find it hard to believe with all that revenue that the TV rights money is fixing their mundane performance over the past decade given the resources they already have been getting.

Also I don't want to get into OT stuff but it is a fact, not opinion, that the cost of living and operating in Florida will be on a continuous rise for a while. That has zero to do with sports and sports revenue should have zero responsibility to support that.

 

[SU94]

Ok my post will probably be stupid, maybe even childish - but who made FSU the king of ACC football? The past 8 years from 2015-2022 they have been 32-32 or just 50% within the ACC football conference. In those same 8 years they have been 58-40 overall. Are they saying they have stunk within the conference because they lack money and need much more money than their conference mates to be better than a meh ACC team?

Their best record in 8 years was last year when they went 10-3 overall with all 3 losses within conference. Has the ACC conference become too tough for them? Their best in conference record was back in 2015 with 6 wins, last year they had 5. Guess I don’t get where they think that they are the boss of the ACC to dictate anything? I admit I’m far from an expert but it makes no sense to me from my point of view just looking at the numbers.

This is what happens in college athletics, which is ridden with incompetent administrators. And FSU has their fair share. Add in a heaping dose of moderately wealthy boosters who each think they are a modern-day version of George Steinbrenner and you have quite a tonic.

 

[orangefog]

Ok my post will probably be stupid, maybe even childish - but who made FSU the king of ACC football? The past 8 years from 2015-2022 they have been 32-32 or just 50% within the ACC football conference. In those same 8 years they have been 58-40 overall. Are they saying they have stunk within the conference because they lack money and need much more money than their conference mates to be better than a meh ACC team?

Their best record in 8 years was last year when they went 10-3 overall with all 3 losses within conference. Has the ACC conference become too tough for them? Their best in conference record was back in 2015 with 6 wins, last year they had 5. Guess I don’t get where they think that they are the boss of the ACC to dictate anything? I admit I’m far from an expert but it makes no sense to me from my point of view just looking at the numbers.

Not stupid at all. I think you've expressed well, what many of us are thinking, likely throughout the league.

 

[sabach]

I agree. The only thing that would make ND think about joining a conference is if their only path to the national championship was through membership in a conference. By revising the playoff format to how it will be when it goes to 12 teams, Sankey accomplished two goals in one action, he made sure that more than one SEC team could get into the playoffs and ND had a viable path to the championship without conference membership. ND will gladly trade topping out in the 5 v. 12 game for their continued independence.

This is exactly right. Sankey knows (1) ND will most likely never join the SEC regardless and (2) they will most likely never join any other conference so as long as they have a path to the CFP without being in a conference. So expanded playoffs allows the SEC to not worry about ND joining the Big 10.

 

[javadoc]

Not stupid at all. I think you've expressed well, what many of us are thinking, likely throughout the league.

Best explanation I have seen is that we are going to see a court ruling in the near future that schools can pay the athletes directly, and then it becomes a game of who has the biggest athletic pot, where a gap of tens of millions of dollars annually would be a very big deal. Everything else is bluster.

 

[MikeSU02]

Ok my post will probably be stupid, maybe even childish - but who made FSU the king of ACC football? The past 8 years from 2015-2022 they have been 32-32 or just 50% within the ACC football conference. In those same 8 years they have been 58-40 overall. Are they saying they have stunk within the conference because they lack money and need much more money than their conference mates to be better than a meh ACC team?

Their best record in 8 years was last year when they went 10-3 overall with all 3 losses within conference. Has the ACC conference become too tough for them? Their best in conference record was back in 2015 with 6 wins, last year they had 5. Guess I don’t get where they think that they are the boss of the ACC to dictate anything? I admit I’m far from an expert but it makes no sense to me from my point of view just looking at the numbers.

I never really had any issue with FSU. In fact, they were always fun to watch back in the day. But it feels like a program that used to be one of the top college programs, regardless of conference. Now they aren't in that same tier (with Bama, UGA, OSU, etc) and probably feel anchored in the ACC with the new world order.

So they can kick and scream all they want, and maybe some of it is to lay down tracks for a future legal effort, maybe some of it is people inside and outside the school just feeling burned and trapped and maybe some of it is something in between.

But to your point, this isn't the FSU of the 90s. This isn't the team that finished top five 14 years in a row or whatever. If FSU and Miami were still finishing top 10/top 5 every year, with Clemson, the situation for the ACC may be different.

So they want to bail? That's cool. Give it a try. Actions are louder than words. Go for it.

BTW, if they are stuck in the ACC, by the time the cost isn't prohibitive to leave, Apple may own ESPN for all we know. Iger, last month, was bullish on sports, but was basically ok selling off ABC and looking for minority partners for ESPN and it seemed to get DTC for ESPN sooner rather than later, by like '25 or '26 (not talking about the current state of ESPN avail via the app).

I just want Syracuse to be able to have an awesome bball team and at least an entertaining football team. I've given up hoping that we're ever going to be competing with the big boys in CFB outside making a crazy run once a decade or something.

 

[qdawgg]

Can’t be true. The ACC commissioner has done nothing and hasn’t asked anyone of they’d like to have a get together with the ACC.

 

[MSOrange]

 

[longtimefan]

John Canzano, who is dialed in to the PAC-12 (especially UO) was on Dan Patrick's show this AM.
He had some interesting points. He says that the fact that AZ/ASU is not holding their meeting until late (6 PT) is important, because it probably indicates that they are waiting for something else occurring earlier in the day to unfold. Canzano thinks that is a decision by Oregon vis-a-vis the B1G. That if the Ducks (Phil Knight?) decide the path to the CFP is better thru the PAC, they may decide to stay. And if that happens, the Arizona schools would hang in also.

Lots of conjecture, but still interesting.

The Patrick show is being rebroadcast on Peacock right now. The Canzano interview will be on in about 40 minutes (~ 2:30).

 

[FreakTalksAboutSU]

John Canzano, who is dialed in to the PAC-12 (especially UO) was on Dan Patrick's show this AM.
He had some interesting points. He says that the fact that AZ/ASU is not holding their meeting until late (6 PT) is important, because it probably indicates that they are waiting for something else occurring earlier in the day to unfold. Canzano thinks that is a decision by Oregon vis-a-vis the B1G. That if the Ducks (Phil Knight?) decide the path to the CFP is better thru the PAC, they may decide to stay. And if that happens, the Arizona schools would hang in also.

Lots of conjecture, but still interesting.

The Patrick show is being rebroadcast on Peacock right now. The Canzano interview will be on in about 40 minutes (~ 2:30).

Honestly, I think he is wrong. I think the late meeting is so that the Big 12 can have their meeting first to authorize official invites. I believe that meeting is also this afternoon.

Oregon staying or going doesn't impact the terrible TV deal IMO, especially if they may just up and leave later.

 

[MSOrange]

 

[FreakTalksAboutSU]

All this movement to the Big 12.

Anyone else feel like the second the Oregon and WA to Big 10 happens the SEC is going to seek a way to respond that likely involves, unless the ACC GOR truly can be tested, rumors of schools from...the Big 12?

 

[Cuse'91]

All this movement to the Big 12.

Anyone else feel like the second the Oregon and WA to Big 10 happens the SEC is going to seek a way to respond that likely involves, unless the ACC GOR truly can be tested, rumors of schools from...the Big 12?

That's what makes the Big 12 more stable than the ACC. No one left that B1G/SEC want.

 

[Cuse181]

That's what makes the Big 12 more stable than the ACC. No one left that B1G/SEC want.

But is the remainder of the Big12 + new guys better than what would be left in the ACC (sans FSU and Clemson) in terms of Dollars/program? There isnt a big name there football wise. Stability can fluctuate but that doesn't mean you're necessarily in a better spot for now.

 

[Whitey23]