ACC, PAC-12, and BIG alliance / conference realignment

[Hoo's That]

Lived in the DMV, personally knew multiple people who commuted WV to Baltimore area for work. Also knew many WVU alum in the DMV area. Nutty commute but yeah theres deff a good WV presence in the DMV

There's daily MARC train service between Harper's Ferry and Martinsburg, WV, and Union Station in DC.

 

[CousCuse]

We're a long way from the 70's, but we still have some built-in advantages. I really do not see it as playing with fire. IF we entered the ACC it would be the most beneficial to maintaining what we have experienced the last 5-7 years. The Pac and the ACC are the conferences that best suit us currently. The ACC would be invested in lifting us up to maintain a blueblood positioning. The SEC and Big we would have to fight and invest massive money.

Again I do not fear it, we could survive in the Big 10 fine (not that I want that). But it would be a battle with other massive brands. We are not a normal small private school, we have a ton of equity built up.

I suggest that since you've painted yourselves into such a corner that the chance of maintaining or increasing current levels of success are much lower than have a 10 year swoon.

 

[WoadBlue]

We're a long way from the 70's, but we still have some built-in advantages. I really do not see it as playing with fire. IF we entered the ACC it would be the most beneficial to maintaining what we have experienced the last 5-7 years. The Pac and the ACC are the conferences that best suit us currently. The ACC would be invested in lifting us up to maintain a blueblood positioning. The SEC and Big we would have to fight and invest massive money.

Again I do not fear it, we could survive in the Big 10 fine (not that I want that). But it would be a battle with other massive brands. We are not a normal small private school, we have a ton of equity built up.

Dook is not a normal small private school, and basketball is not football. Just ask Villanova and Gonzaga.

The smaller the number of small private schools that are part of Power/Major Conference football, the harder it will be over time for ND football to retain any power. This is an age when Gordon Gekko's philosophy has taken full control CFB. That is the reason that now almost everybody agrees we are headed for 2 and only 2 truly Major/Power conferences. Neither Ivan Boesky nor Michael Milkin has any interest in anything other than the most profit. Each is willing to destroy everyone and everything to keep adding more profit. Such men chew up small entities and barely notice it.

The only way to force a stop to the madness, the war between SEC and BT to own it all and parade its heritage as THE best for all time, is the ACC as as strong as it can be. The Pac can never help in that regard because the Pac has been largely owned by the BT since the BT bribed it to close the Rose Bowl. But the ACC has the right geography and right mindset, right priorities, to be that check on the never-ending greed is good mentality of the BT and SEC.

For that to work, Notre Dame has to be part of the solution. For the ACC to be a halfway effective middle man between BT and SEC, tempering each, the ACC requires more football money, power, and prestige than its 14 members have.

 

[nd1973]

I suggest that since you've painted yourselves into such a corner that the chance of maintaining or increasing current levels of success are much lower than have a 10 year swoon.

Maybe, we'll see. We survived the worst hiring streak with Davie, WIllingham, Weis. While we are short of our historical norms, we are way better off than what we were.

Right now nothing has happened that has forced us to reevaluate. But the sands are shirting.

 

[CousCuse]

Maybe, we'll see. We survived the worst hiring streak with Davie, WIllingham, Weis. While we are short of our historical norms, we are way better off than what we were.

Right now nothing has happened that has forced us to reevaluate. But the sands are shirting.

What has happened is that the ACC has had to go in business with the B1G because ND didn't want to bolster the ACC.

 

[nd1973]

What has happened is that the ACC has had to go in business with the B1G because ND didn't want to bolster the ACC.

Okay, but I do not see where it is our job to bolster anything. Right now nothing has changed. ND wants playoff expansion and will not likely support slowing it down.. But it likely will be slowed down because a lot of people are unhappy with the Tex and OU situation.

 

[Cusefan69]

I think the ACC entertaining this alliance as attempt to create at least a little leverage with ESPN to improve annual TV payouts. This year is a “look in” year to assess whether the deal is still competitive and needs adjusting. It is clearly below market. Maybe this pushes ESPN to do something about it in exchange for the ACC to stay a bit closer aligned with ESPN and the SEC.

Agreed. People would be howling for the new commish's head if he didn't develop some leverage here for the ACC. He also is very familiar with how the BT works. Time to watch how things unfold.

 

[CousCuse]

Okay, but I do not see where it is our job to bolster anything. Right now nothing has changed. ND wants playoff expansion and will not likely support slowing it down.. But it likely will be slowed down because a lot of people are unhappy with the Tex and OU situation.

The ACC would have sided with playoff expansion, but now they're under B1G dominion, so I think they will go along with their plan. See, you don't get to have your cake and eat it too.

 

[SURules]

OK, when does the federal government get involved? When so many schools and their related Congressmen/Congresswomen get left out, they will get involved as they alway do. NYS has quite a few seats at that table. Ask Ma Bell about things like this.

 

[KaiserUEO]

Maybe, we'll see. We survived the worst hiring streak with Davie, WIllingham, Weis. While we are short of our historical norms, we are way better off than what we were.

Right now nothing has happened that has forced us to reevaluate. But the sands are shirting.

you betcha the sands are shifting.

i fail to see how a massive conf of 16 and even the ones at 14, will continue to play 8 conf games. why be in a conference if you never see half the teams? 9 conf games is inevitable and i can see 10.

10 ends your independence.

and like i said, if we even see 8-1-1 out of the alliance, your done then too. sure, nd will fight it for a bit, but its a losing battle. 9-1-1 would really squeeze you and 10-1-1 is a come to Jesus moment.

 

[WoadBlue]

I ran across some interesting tidbits about OOC scheduling.

Stanford is the only school that is playing a 12 game Power Conference slate. The Pac has 9 league games, and Stanford's OOC foes this year are K-St, Vandy, and ND.

The Pac also has 4 schools (Arizona, AZ St, Utah, and Wazzou) that are playing 0 OOC games vs. Power conference teams.

The Big XII has 3 schools (Ok St, Baylor, TTU) playing 0 OOC Power conference teams. The Big Ten has 1 (IU).

But the ACC and SEC only play 8 league games, which means that they can have members that play 1 Power conference team among its OOC but still only play a total of 9 Power conference teams. ACC teams that play only 1 OOC game vs. a Power conference foe: BC, NCSU, Syracuse, Wake Forest.

SEC schools with 1 P5 OOC game: Bama, Arkansas, Auburn, Florida, Kentucky, LSU, Ole Miss, Miss St, Mizzou, SoCar, Tennessee, A&M, Vandy.

 

[Moontan]

I ran across some interesting tidbits about OOC scheduling.

Stanford is the only school that is playing a 12 game Power Conference slate. The Pac has 9 league games, and Stanford's OOC foes this year are K-St, Vandy, and ND.

The Pac also has 4 schools (Arizona, AZ St, Utah, and Wazzou) that are playing 0 OOC games vs. Power conference teams.

The Big XII has 3 schools (Ok St, Baylor, TTU) playing 0 OOC Power conference teams. The Big Ten has 1 (IU).

But the ACC and SEC only play 8 league games, which means that they can have members that play 1 Power conference team among its OOC but still only play a total of 9 Power conference teams. ACC teams that play only 1 OOC game vs. a Power conference foe: BC, NCSU, Syracuse, Wake Forest.

SEC schools with 1 P5 OOC game: Bama, Arkansas, Auburn, Florida, Kentucky, LSU, Ole Miss, Miss St, Mizzou, SoCar, Tennessee, A&M, Vandy.

The other SEC school (UGA) has two P5 OOC games (Clemson, GA Tech).

 

[HRE Otto IV]

you betcha the sands are shifting.

i fail to see how a massive conf of 16 and even the ones at 14, will continue to play 8 conf games. why be in a conference if you never see half the teams? 9 conf games is inevitable and i can see 10.

10 ends your independence.

and like i said, if we even see 8-1-1 out of the alliance, your done then too. sure, nd will fight it for a bit, but its a losing battle. 9-1-1 would really squeeze you and 10-1-1 is a come to Jesus moment.

It would be nice if the P4 all went to 16 teams and then broke away from FBS into their own division. Then you can have a ten game conference schedule (5+5/5) and 2 OOC games vs other P4 schools. Playoffs are the 4 conference champs plus 2 at larges.

Each team playing 12 P4 games will add value to the TV contracts. As will more intersectional games.

Breaking away from FBS will help add talent to the middle and bottom P4 schools. Kids aren't going to choose starting at UCF or Cincinnati over being 2nd string at SU or Wake.

 

[kcsu]

The Big XII was a merger itself.
It died because the markets of the conference were small and Texas wasn’t ever fully committed.
A&M and Nebraska left because of Texas.
Missouri left for survival.
Colorado wanted to be associated with the West over Southwest.

The ACC survived because the schools targeted didn’t want to leave.
North Carolina and Virginia didn’t want to be Midwest schools.

Clemson and Florida State have never been offered.
If those teams were offered they would leave likely because of the chit deal Swofford negotiated.

You are giving the guy credit for something he had nothing to do with.

You are wrong. He had zero leverage had already lost Maryland to the Big and could have had nothing left. He played the long game and did what he needed to do. If not for the GOR SU would be on the outside looking in.

 

[kcsu]

OK, when does the federal government get involved? When so many schools and their related Congressmen/Congresswomen get left out, they will get involved as they alway do. NYS has quite a few seats at that table. Ask Ma Bell about things like this.

Judge Green made me a very happy man

 

[Alsacs]

You are wrong. He had zero leverage had already lost Maryland to the Big and could have had nothing left. He played the long game and did what he needed to do. If not for the GOR SU would be on the outside looking in.

I am not wrong.
Swofford helped Syracuse and Pitt because he did a terrible job.

You like him because we are Syracuse fans and he helped us by his terrible job but for the ACC at whole he screwed up big time.

 

[TerryD]

you betcha the sands are shifting.

i fail to see how a massive conf of 16 and even the ones at 14, will continue to play 8 conf games. why be in a conference if you never see half the teams? 9 conf games is inevitable and i can see 10.

10 ends your independence.

and like i said, if we even see 8-1-1 out of the alliance, your done then too. sure, nd will fight it for a bit, but its a losing battle. 9-1-1 would really squeeze you and 10-1-1 is a come to Jesus moment.

Here is a question for you:

What will happen if ND joins the ACC, then ESPN approaches the latter and says "If you go to a ten game conference schedule, we will pay you millions more."

Will the other ACC schools care that ND thinks that will hurt its recruiting?

Will they turn down the offer because ND thinks it will damage its football program?

Hell no, the response will be "Screw ND, we all want that extra cash".

So, ND's goose will be cooked and it will be left with no other option.

ND is a small Catholic school in Northern Indiana, with no local recruiting base. It is not Ohio State, Alabama, Florida or Texas, sitting on a rich recruiting area with a state full of kids who want to play for State U.

It has to fight the "cold" issue, the "Catholic" issue, the "it makes its players study more" issue, the "its too far away" issue and other negative recruiting thrown its way.

It believes that it has to travel all over and play games nationally in order to recruit nationally.

Why does it think that? Because it was forced to do that and it worked.

That is how Notre Dame became Notre Dame.

ND strongly believes that football independence is the best model for its brand, for advertising the school and for building and maintaining its football program.

But other people want ND to surrender independence and want it to revamp everything: how it schedules, how it recruits, who it has to play (versus who it wants to play) and how it builds and maintains its brand.

They want ND to completely dump 132 years of something that served it very well.

Why do people want this ? Is it because they think it will be better for ND? Hell no.

They only want this to line the pockets of the school(s) they root for, no other reason.

When ND counters that this may likely hurt its brand, its status and its recruiting, what guarantees are presented that this will not happen ??

Only "Aww, don't worry about it You will be just fine, trust us". That is all, nothing more.

The ACC only wants to use ND to generate extra cash.

There is nothing wrong with that, but it won't care if ND is right, that joining a conference will damage it, making it more like Nebraska or Northwestern.

It will be "Gee, that is too damned bad. Thanks for that new TV deal, though".

If you guys are right, and independence is doomed, why sell it now (it can only be sold once) and for a lower price ?

What business thrives by selling things for less instead of more, for accepting the lowest possible price?

It may be better for ND to ride out independence for as long as possible.

At least ND fans can enjoy the ride for a while and the ND haters will have to wait longer to gloat.

A conference is a conference. Surrendering independence to the ACC is not much different than surrendering independence to a Big Ten or SEC super conference.

Surrender is surrender, the rest are just details.

Either way, ND loses.

 

[N.Y. Orangeman]

The ND hate around here is off the charts. I get it; it would be great to have them join as a full-time member. That being said, they've been a good partner under the deal we offered them. If history tells us anything, it is a) they are loathe to join the B10 and b) they are actually pretty loyal when it comes down to it (see Navy). Maybe it is wishful thinking, but if push comes to shove and they are forced to join a conference, I think it would be with the like-minded.

 

[Alsacs]

Here is a question for you:

What will happen if ND joins the ACC, then ESPN approaches the latter and says "If you go to a ten game conference schedule, we will pay you millions more."

Will the other ACC schools care that ND thinks that will hurt its recruiting?

Will they turn down the offer because ND thinks it will damage its football program?

Hell no, the response will be "Screw ND, we all want that extra cash".

So, ND's goose will be cooked and it will be left with no other option.

ND strongly believes that football independence is the best model for its brand, for advertising the school and for building and maintaining its football program.

But other people want ND to surrender independence and want it to revamp everything: how it schedules, how it recruits, how it builds and maintains its brand.

Why do people want this ? Is it because they think it will be better for ND? Hell no.

They only want this to line the pockets of the school(s) they root for, no other reason.

When ND counters that this may likely hurt its brand, its status and its recruiting, what guarantees are presented that this will not happen ??

Only "Aww, don't worry about it". That is all, nothing more.

The ACC only wants to use ND to generate extra cash.

It won't care if ND is right, that joining a conference will damage it, making it more like Nebraska or Northwestern.

If you guys are right, and independence is doomed, why sell it now (it can only be sold once) and for a lower price ?

What business thrives by selling things for less instead of more?

It may be better for ND to ride out independence for as long as possible,

A conference is a conference. Surrendering independence to the ACC is not much different than surrendering independence to a Big Ten or SEC super conference.

Surrender is surrender, the rest are just details.

Either way, ND loses.

I don’t want Notre Dame in my conference. I wish your entire athletic department was independent.
The hubris of Notre Dame fans who think it’s still 1966.
If you want football independence pull all your teams be fully independent.

Swofford was an idiot for giving ND the deal he did.
We get it you guys don’t want in the ACC unless you can use it to have an actual season.

Okay go fully independent 2-3 games on ESPN isn’t worth this headache.
The conference making an alliance with Pac-12 and Big Ten is probably the best thing in a while. It tells ND the status quo isn’t acceptable.

You guys can get out of the ACC agreement if I were the ACC commish. Go play Big Ten teams.

 

[CousCuse]

Here is a question for you:

What will happen if ND joins the ACC, then ESPN approaches the latter and says "If you go to a ten game conference schedule, we will pay you millions more."

Will the other ACC schools care that ND thinks that will hurt its recruiting?

Will they turn down the offer because ND thinks it will damage its football program?

Hell no, the response will be "Screw ND, we all want that extra cash".

So, ND's goose will be cooked and it will be left with no other option.

ND strongly believes that football independence is the best model for its brand, for advertising the school and for building and maintaining its football program.

But other people want ND to surrender independence and want it to revamp everything: how it schedules, how it recruits, how it builds and maintains its brand.

Why do people want this ? Is it because they think it will be better for ND? Hell no.

They only want this to line the pockets of the school(s) they root for, no other reason.

When ND counters that this may likely hurt its brand, its status and its recruiting, what guarantees are presented that this will not happen ??

Only "Aww, don't worry about it". That is all, nothing more.

The ACC only wants to use ND to generate extra cash.

It won't care if ND is right, that joining a conference will damage it, making it more like Nebraska or Northwestern.

If you guys are right, and independence is doomed, why sell it now (it can only be sold once) and for a lower price ?

What business thrives by selling things for less instead of more?

It may be better for ND to ride out independence for as long as possible,

A conference is a conference. Surrendering independence to the ACC is not much different than surrendering independence to a Big Ten or SEC super conference.

Surrender is surrender, the rest are just details.

Either way, ND loses.

If you are forced to join the ACC because of scheduling restrictions and playoff limitations imposed by the "alliance", aka the B1G, do you think ACC teams, fans, refs are going to forget that you could have stopped it, but did nothing. I don't think so. Won't be much goodwill coming your way.

 

[Alsacs]

The ND hate around here is off the charts. I get it; it would be great to have them join as a full-time member. That being said, they've been a good partner under the deal we offered them. If history tells us anything, it is a) they are loathe to join the B10 and b) they are actually pretty loyal when it comes down to it (see Navy). Maybe it is wishful thinking, but if push comes to shove and they are forced to join a conference, I think it would be with the like-minded.

What deal? ND is using the ACC to maintain the status quo.
The status quo will cause the ACC to slowly bleed out if the revenues stay the way they are.

 

[Chip]

I don’t want Notre Dame in my conference. I wish your entire athletic department was independent.
The hubris of Notre Dame fans who think it’s still 1966.
If you want football independence pull all your teams be fully independent.

Swofford was an idiot for giving ND the deal he did.
We get it you guys don’t want in the ACC unless you can use it to have an actual season.

Okay go fully independent 2-3 games on ESPN isn’t worth this headache.
The conference making an alliance with Pac-12 and Big Ten is probably the best thing in a while. It tells ND the status quo isn’t acceptable.

You guys can get out of the ACC agreement if I were the ACC commish. Go play Big Ten teams.

I like the ND agreement. Doesn't give me a headache.

We will play them more often than any coastal team not named Pitt.

Can't wait to host them in the Dome next season.

 

[DaCuse]

I like the ND agreement. Doesn't give me a headache.

We will play them more often than any coastal team not named Pitt.

Can't wait to host them in the Dome next season.

ND is actually playing in the carrier dome next year and not some off campus site????

 

[TerryD]

If you are forced to join the ACC because of scheduling restrictions and playoff limitations imposed by the "alliance", aka the B1G, do you think ACC teams, fans, refs are going to forget that you could have stopped it, but did nothing. I don't think so. Won't be much goodwill coming your way.

Name me one time that anyone else had any goodwill towards ND?

Ya'll don't have any. I don't expect you would have much even if ND joined the ACC.

If any, it would be short lived.

Nobody answered my question about the hypothetical ESPN approach to the ACC about a ten game schedule.

Why is it ND's duty to stop what conferences like the ACC started?

ND didn't cause this chaos. ND never wanted conference realignment.

You guys did.

 

[sutomcat]

Name me one time that anyone else had any goodwill towards ND?

I understand Navy helped them out during WWII...