ACC, PAC-12, and BIG alliance / conference realignment

[Hoo's That]

Gotta love that last tiebreaker.

 

[ManleyRocks]

ND doesn't plan to join a football conference, ever. There is no "bitter end" because there is no end.

Why join a conference? Why give up the current flexibility? There is zero desire and zero need for ND to join a football conference.

The net benefits are not worth it for ND to give up football independence. ND will always have a path to the playoffs and a big enough TV payout as an independent.

Even if the ACC loses a fairly large number of schools, ND will figure out something to stay independent.

I hate to post this as I am a drink the kool-aid, orange colored glasses sort of fan, but if there are handshake agreements this is super bad news. All conference re-alignment has been stepwise as noted above. Next step could be in 2030 2 for the Big 10, 4 for the Big 12 and 4 for the SEC. I suspect ND will bite the bullet and join the Big 10 with UVA. If ND does choose to forever pass this opportunity as they arrogantly believe they will have this franchise for eternity, then my hunch is Duke is the next to go to Big 10 due to academics, decades of basketball superiority, wealthy / national alums and someone to pair with Northwesterns. To the SEC will go UNC, Clemson, Fla State and Miami. Big 12 gets VTech, NC State, Louisville and SMU. ACC adds Army, Navy, Temple, UCF and UConn (if Duke takes ND spot). Such an incredible bummer and I hope the SEC and Big 10 conferences want 24 members rather than 20 members but it is about money and making sure no competition ever arises so enjoy the next 5 years. Let’s hope FB and Red create some truly lasting memories.

 

[HouClone]

I hate to post this as I am a drink the kool-aid, orange colored glasses sort of fan, but if there are handshake agreements this is super bad news. All conference re-alignment has been stepwise as noted above. Next step could be in 2030 2 for the Big 10, 4 for the Big 12 and 4 for the SEC. I suspect ND will bite the bullet and join the Big 10 with UVA. If ND does choose to forever pass this opportunity as they arrogantly believe they will have this franchise for eternity, then my hunch is Duke is the next to go to Big 10 due to academics, decades of basketball superiority, wealthy / national alums and someone to pair with Northwesterns. To the SEC will go UNC, Clemson, Fla State and Miami. Big 12 gets VTech, NC State, Louisville and SMU. ACC adds Army, Navy, Temple, UCF and UConn (if Duke takes ND spot). Such an incredible bummer and I hope the SEC and Big 10 conferences want 24 members rather than 20 members but it is about money and making sure no competition ever arises so enjoy the next 5 years. Let’s hope FB and Red create some truly lasting memories.

ACC adds USF instead of UCF. Big 12 would likely take Pitt instead of SMU. Possibly NC State and/or VTech says no to the Big 12. In that case, I can see Big 12 inviting Syracuse (if Syracuse is receptive) and UConn for the hoops brands and NY area. Yormark has always been keen on both.

 

[WoadBlue]

ACC adds USF instead of UCF. Big 12 would likely take Pitt instead of SMU. Possibly NC State and/or VTech says no to the Big 12. In that case, I can see Big 12 inviting Syracuse (if Syracuse is receptive) and UConn for the hoops brands and NY area. Yormark has always been keen on both.

Right now, Yormark would gobble up UConn and Syracuse.

What's most amusing to me about various Syracuse fan mental gymnastics over this is that even as they get loud and proud about the Northeast and how somehow that can save the ACC by having BC and Cuse, they then get real and see the ACC utterly destroyed, leaving only 2 truly Major conferences, with th4 bug 12 as the #3 league.

Either the ACC is gong to be able to act by 2030 to save itself as Major, or else the ACC is going to get gutted no later than 2036 so that it is left no stronger and more prestigious than the Pac is right now.

A gutted ACC is never going to be allowed to have any auto bid in the Top Tier football playoffs. If the BT-SEC tag team can break the ACC, they will move by 2036 or shortly thereafter to restrict that playoff to just those 2 leagues. They want ALL the money and all the glory from Top Tier CFB.

There is only 1 battle left in this was: the battle to save the ACC as Major. That battle will decided whether there will be 2 or 3 (and then if the ACC survives it might have enough clout to demand the Big 12 in its newest iteration also be accepted) Major Conferences total for the Top Tier of CFB.

Again, I assert:

The ACC cannot make the Final Cut with the current 17 member football league. Nor can it make it with just ND becoming the 18th full football member. The ACC also will have to cull a couple of dead weight football programs and replace with schools with more students, more alums, better football history, better locations for CFB fandom, etc.

When there are just BT and SEC as MAJOR conferences, they willmforce ND to join a conference for football or be left out of the playoffs. Theywnillmoload it over ND. They will prove to ND that its precious demands have been infuriating for decades and will no longer be mollycoddled. That is the only part of the process I will enjoy.

BT and SEC both are dreaming BIG about the coming playoffs of 8 SEC teams and 8 BT teams, matched cross conference in Round 1.

 

[oldpinepoint]

BT and SEC both are dreaming BIG about the coming playoffs of 8 SEC teams and 8 BT teams, matched cross conference in Round 1.

That’s a snooze fest

 

[kirbivore]

BT and SEC both are dreaming BIG about the coming playoffs of 8 SEC teams and 8 BT teams, matched cross conference in Round 1.

I'm one that believes Syracuse is already dead. But that playoff will only interest alumni and the gamblers. The casual non gamblers will tune out. Taking my favorite teams out of the equation I'm way more of an NFL fan than CFB and that eventual playoff won't move the needle for me.

 

[HtownOrange]

Right now, Yormark would gobble up UConn and Syracuse.

What's most amusing to me about various Syracuse fan mental gymnastics over this is that even as they get loud and proud about the Northeast and how somehow that can save the ACC by having BC and Cuse

You should link all the posts you are quoting. Or, simply stop acting like a troll. It diminishes, undercuts, and/or negates any substantive comments you make.

 

[WoadBlue]

I'm one that believes Syracuse is already dead. But that playoff will only interest alumni and the gamblers. The casual non gamblers will tune out. Taking my favorite teams out of the equation I'm way more of an NFL fan than CFB and that eventual playoff won't move the needle for me.

I think there will be more people who come to feel that way than just you. But the damned fools determined to fix things to be that way do not care, They just intend to exercise the power they hold. They intend to gather unto themselves all the money that they can gather.

And that is why I say they should be fought tooth and nail. Once they have destroyed, aint nobody putting Humpty-Dumpty back together once again.

 

[WoadBlue]

You should link all the posts you are quoting. Or, simply stop acting like a troll. It diminishes, undercuts, and/or negates any substantive comments you make.

If you need a link to know for certain that Earmark has talked publicly many times about what he thinks is the value in UCOnn, then God help you. You'll never grasp much of this.

I assume that Yormark would kill to pair Syracuse with UConn, because that is the only way wanting UConn makes sense to a sane man.

 

[Rufus_13th]

Everyone,

I asked an AI to analyze all the factors used for realignment (past and future) and if the B1G and SEC went to 24 who would be included.

SEC took the 4 annual rivalry schools plus Kansas, Arizona, Miami and UNC.

B1G took Virginia, Duke, Utah, Stanford, Syracuse, Pitt.

 

[Toga]

Everyone,

I asked an AI to analyze all the factors used for realignment (past and future) and if the B1G and SEC went to 24 who would be included.

SEC took the 4 annual rivalry schools plus Kansas, Arizona, Miami and UNC.

B1G took Virginia, Duke, Utah, Stanford, Syracuse, Pitt.

We're in

 

[HtownOrange]

If you need a link to know for certain that Earmark has talked publicly many times about what he thinks is the value in UCOnn, then God help you. You'll never grasp much of this.

I assume that Yormark would kill to pair Syracuse with UConn, because that is the only way wanting UConn makes sense to a sane man.

You should probably focus on the correct part of comment:


What's most amusing to me about various Syracuse fan mental gymnastics over this is that even as they get loud and proud about the Northeast and how somehow that can save the ACC by having BC and Cuse.


I don't to recall anyone on this board ever saying that Syracuse and BC would save the ACC. Though, several have commented that the ACCN likely would not exist without Syracuse, Pitt, and BC. You know, the 35 million in population the ACC needed to get carriage of the ACCN. That said, where are the links on this board fitting your comment?

Yormark says a lot of things and he is just noise. He will end up taking whatever is left over, no one argues otherwise unless ESPN "saves" the remaining ACC schools for cheap programming.

 

[orange79]

Right now, Yormark would gobble up UConn and Syracuse.

What's most amusing to me about various Syracuse fan mental gymnastics over this is that even as they get loud and proud about the Northeast and how somehow that can save the ACC by having BC and Cuse, they then get real and see the ACC utterly destroyed, leaving only 2 truly Major conferences, with th4 bug 12 as the #3 league.

Just because you keep saying this over and over doesn't make it true.

It's not. No one is saying this.

 

[Archbold44]

If you need a link to know for certain that Earmark has talked publicly many times about what he thinks is the value in UCOnn, then God help you. You'll never grasp much of this.

I assume that Yormark would kill to pair Syracuse with UConn, because that is the only way wanting UConn makes sense to a sane man.

Bigger question. Ignoring the exit fee and any difference in revenue (whichever direction).. would you take Syracuse joining UConn in the B12 immediately? Positive? Negative? We would probably have a more stable conference than we have ever had as most B12 schools are not desired by the B10 or SEC. Plus, we beat a bunch of teams to that landing spot, kind of like how BC, Va Tech, and Miami beat us to the ACC. We really did not have that much time in the ACC to bemoan its loss. Plus, we get back games against West Virginia in football and UConn in hoops. A conference with Kansas and Arizona, among others. Would we miss Pitt and BC (and Va Tech and Miami) that much? Plus, they might later join us in the B12. So... what would everyone think about such a move?

 

[FloridaCuse]

I think both BT and SE. are far too greedy for that. When they can get away with closing the playoffs they control to just their two leagues, they will do so. They will take 16 of 16 slots in the playoffs.

I'm not so sure it will ever get to the point that the SEC and B1G take it all to themselves and exclude everyone else. Some may already realize that plan may not be good for college football overall. If they eliminate a large segment of the country from caring about the CFB playoffs, interest and viewership may go down, not just for the playoffs but throughout the whole season. A case in point -- just a few months ago the SEC and B1G where united and hellbent on imposing a 16 team playoff system in 2026 with each league getting 4 automatic qualifers and the ACC and B12 each getting 2. But a funny thing happened. The SEC coaches decided they didn't like that and didn't want it. They wanted to "earn" their at-large bids. It wasn't clear why they did but I did see some suggestions that they didn't think it was good for CFB overall. It was suprising and the SEC leadership went a long with it. Now there is an impass between the SEC and B1G on the 16 team format. Consequently the 12 team playoffs may continue past this year with the current 5+1+6 format. And the major reason the B1G wants the 4+4+2+2+4 format is because the new B1G Commissioner promised their TV partners that they'd turn their "championship" game slots into play-in games for their 3rd and 4th automatic slot. Maybe some day they'll realize fans wouldn't be interested to watch "play-in" games. So the lesson is -- we have no idea what's going to happen with the SEC and B1G in the future so I don't assume they will decide to hog it all to themselves.

 

[HouClone]

Bigger question. Ignoring the exit fee and any difference in revenue (whichever direction).. would you take Syracuse joining UConn in the B12 immediately? Positive? Negative? We would probably have a more stable conference than we have ever had as most B12 schools are not desired by the B10 or SEC. Plus, we beat a bunch of teams to that landing spot, kind of like how BC, Va Tech, and Miami beat us to the ACC. We really did not have that much time in the ACC to bemoan its loss. Plus, we get back games against West Virginia in football and UConn in hoops. A conference with Kansas and Arizona, among others. Would we miss Pitt and BC (and Va Tech and Miami) that much? Plus, they might later join us in the B12. So... what would everyone think about such a move?

I would think Pitt is high on the list for the Big 12, also Louisville, NC State, and VTech. NC St and VTech may slow play it trying to figure out whether to reconfigure the ACC or not.

 

[qdawgg]

Why? Neither the SEC nor the B1G need ND as a member. What's their incentive to "force" them into a conference?

People really don't understand ND at all, which is weird since they've been one of the only consistent actors in college athletics for several decades running.

Why would the two biggest conferences who've expanded primarily out of profit, want to add one of the most profitable programs in the country?

I'll get back to you on that one, I'm not sure either.

My comment also had nothing to do with what ND wanted to do but was more about the two conference giants having the ability to try to force the last important piece on the chess board to make a move in one direction or the other. I didn't say they would do it or that ND would respond. Just laying out a fairly easy plan in the future the two conferences could employ if they felt like it.

 

[qdawgg]

You should link all the posts you are quoting. Or, simply stop acting like a troll. It diminishes, undercuts, and/or negates any substantive comments you make.

I put him on ignore a long time ago. Cuts down on all the things I need to read that aren't true.

 

[CuseIsGodsTeam]

I hope UNCheat goes to the SEC. They will lose the royalty status they hold in basketball being in the ACC and will fall behind teams like Kentucky, Florida, Arkansas, Auburn, and even Texas A&M. Their football program will fare even worse. They will be clustered with the likes of Mississippi St, Vanderbilt, & Kentucky becoming a bottom feeder on the football side of the league.

 

[FloridaCuse]

Paul Finebaum reacts to UNC, SEC rumors, makes prediction on if move will happen

.

www.on3.com

Paul Finebaum defends Clemson over Florida State as better option for SEC expansion

.

www.on3.com

 

[TexanMark]

I would think Pitt is high on the list for the Big 12, also Louisville, NC State, and VTech. NC St and VTech may slow play it trying to figure out whether to reconfigure the ACC or not.

That is the Big12 fanboy conventional wisdom.

What Syracuse brings though is a state with 20M and tons sports media alumni.

The ACC as long as they have the ACCN will be #3 over the Big12.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

Bigger question. Ignoring the exit fee and any difference in revenue (whichever direction).. would you take Syracuse joining UConn in the B12 immediately? Positive? Negative? We would probably have a more stable conference than we have ever had as most B12 schools are not desired by the B10 or SEC. Plus, we beat a bunch of teams to that landing spot, kind of like how BC, Va Tech, and Miami beat us to the ACC. We really did not have that much time in the ACC to bemoan its loss. Plus, we get back games against West Virginia in football and UConn in hoops. A conference with Kansas and Arizona, among others. Would we miss Pitt and BC (and Va Tech and Miami) that much? Plus, they might later join us in the B12. So... what would everyone think about such a move?

No way. What benefit is there to being in the B12 early vs late? We should be waiting to see how things play out before deciding our long term fate. Once the B1G and SEC take all of the ACC/B12 brands it is game over. So being stuck in a national 2nd tier conference that at best has one auto playoff bid where we need to fight off 20+ other teams to get it while getting paid chump change TV money with high travel costs is a good thing? That is assuming that there is even a path to the playoffs. The B1G Champ might just play the SEC Champ in the NCG. We should be in no rush to join the B12.

Also depending on what is left over, the ACC might actually make more money with an easier path to winning the conference than in the B12.

IMO any teams that get left behind from a 24+ team P2 are better off creating regional 10 team conferences. Without the playoff $ the net revenue being in a national super conference won't be worth it. I rather be in a conference with BC, Pitt, West Virginia, UConn, Army, Navy, Temple, and then two of (UMass, Delaware, James Madison, East Carolina, UCF, USF, FAU). That is assuming Miami, FSU, GA Tech, Clemson, Duke, VA Tech are not left out.

 

[TexanMark]

Sal, I agree. If Cuse gets totally left out you do something with a regional conference.

I would also look at rebuilding a Big East Hybrid or look at an east coast version of the PAC12.

That said it really depends on how bad the ACC gets raided. All Cuse can do is to be as strong as possible in FB and BB. The fans need to do their part by showing up to all the games.

My take on UNC is if they leave the ACC it is like when Cuse left the Big East. A seismic change as both were glue schools to the league.

 

[Archbold44]

No way. What benefit is there to being in the B12 early vs late? We should be waiting to see how things play out before deciding our long term fate. Once the B1G and SEC take all of the ACC/B12 brands it is game over. So being stuck in a national 2nd tier conference that at best has one auto playoff bid where we need to fight off 20+ other teams to get it while getting paid chump change TV money with high travel costs is a good thing? That is assuming that there is even a path to the playoffs. The B1G Champ might just play the SEC Champ in the NCG. We should be in no rush to join the B12.

Also depending on what is left over, the ACC might actually make more money with an easier path to winning the conference than in the B12.

IMO any teams that get left behind from a 24+ team P2 are better off creating regional 10 team conferences. Without the playoff $ the net revenue being in a national super conference won't be worth it. I rather be in a conference with BC, Pitt, West Virginia, UConn, Army, Navy, Temple, and then two of (UMass, Delaware, James Madison, East Carolina, UCF, USF, FAU). That is assuming Miami, FSU, GA Tech, Clemson, Duke, VA Tech are not left out.

That was part of why I was driving at. Who is to say that we would get to the B12 late? We might be looking at B12 early or B12 never. And that regional conference you discuss would never have West Virginia (B12) and would probably lack Pitt, as they would fit in the B12. So it would be us, BC, UConn, Wake Forest, and a bunch of G5 programs. We would never have a chance at a playoff ever again. Not that we are routinely in the playoffs and would be giving up something tangible. We would just never even have the hope. The conference you propose would be worse than the future Pac conference.

Frankly, I think if it got as bad as the conference you are proposing (especially without Pitt and West Virginia), we might as well go independent like UConn and park our sports in the Big East (if even possible).

 

[Archbold44]

Sal, I agree. If Cuse gets totally left out you do something with a regional conference.

I would also look at rebuilding a Big East Hybrid or look at an east coast version of the PAC12.

That said it really depends on how bad the ACC gets raided. All Cuse can do is to be as strong as possible in FB and BB. The fans need to do their part by showing up to all the games.

My take on UNC is if they leave the ACC it is like when Cuse left the Big East. A seismic change as both were glue schools to the league.

Maybe. I think it all depends on who gets left behind. If the B1G/SEC are truly looking at this as the prime candidates are Notre Dame and North Carolina... then the optics of taking North Carolina to cause concern about destroying the ACC has to weigh on Notre Dame a bit. I know non-football sports do not matter, but think of what UNC and UVa going to the B1G would do for ACC lacrosse. Down to just Syracuse and Duke. if UNC and Virginia went to the SEC, the ACC would probably let them keep lacrosse with the ACC. But not if they go B1G. I am not sure how this applies across the board. Would the Big East take back Notre Dame's non-football sports? Perhaps. If so, then not much need for ND to join the B1G or SEC. Stay in the ACC until a shift to Big East.

So maybe the B1G takes UNC and Florida State. I am not sure that the SEC has any reason to make a move at all. If so, that leaves Clemson, SMU, Miami, etc. If the SEC beats the B1G to the punch and grabs UNC and Florida State, and the B1G could take Virginia and Clemson... that would be pretty bad., but I am not sure that Georgia Tech and Duke would be immediately necessary grabs for the SEC. So that would leave an ACC with: Miami, SMU, Louisville, Georgia Tech, Duke, Va Tech, NC State, Pitt, Syracuse, BC, Wake Forest, Stanford, and Cal. Not too shabby academically or athletically. Add UConn get to 14. And then let Tulane and Memphis pitch for spot 15 (to encourage Memphis to get its $200M together to fund the ACC) and perhaps (with 15+ND) ESPN keeps the contract in place. With $300M from the exit fees and $200M from Memphis, that is a jolt of funds to the schools remaining.

Frankly, if I am the rest of the ACC, I am approaching Memphis with a deal for them if the forego media rights and pay $300M over 5 years (they offered Memphis $200M). And then the other schools agree to give most of that to FSU and Clemson (and maybe UNC) to agree to let Memphis join AND stay 5 more years after Memphis joins. $60M a year from Memphis supporters could be $15M each to FSU/Clemson, $10M to North Carolina, and $20M to the remaining schools. If the schools agree to that, then the B1G and SEC would need to give full shares for those three schools to lure them away. If they can get full shares and leave, so be it... the funds can be diverted to the remaining teams in the conference. The crappy thing would be any of those schools leaving for partial shares. That makes it too easy for the SEC/B1G to expand.