And there you go...

[Scotch]

Him not sitting next to Boeheim after getting pulled is telling. I don’t think he likes Coach. I don’t think he wants to listen to what he has to say. It’s not all on Carey because Boeheim looks like an SOB to play for sometimes. None of us are behind the scenes though. We don’t know how many 1on1 conversations these 2 have had with each other. We have no idea the relationship between player/coach but my guess is Carey is disrespectful of coach and his team. Boeheim said Joe was starting in a way that seemed like Carey did something either after getting pulled or during half.

Even if all of that is true he's been given every opportunity here. None of this changes the fact that he doesn't look like he belongs on the court with ACC-level players.

 

[PhatOrange]

The poor kid has no backing from the Syracuse fan base. He get pulled and the entire team goes nuts for Girard. Girard has done nothing that is far superior Carey. Kid missed a mid range open jumper and immediately pulled and never whiffed the court the rest of the year. SU is starved for athletic guards who can get out and run and putting Carey in purgatory to me means Boeheim is done with him and he may as well leave now. No real fair shake for a kid with so much talent.

It’s about the flow of the offense.

 

[FloridaFan]

You probably would have, too, if you had the same long leash that JB gave to Buddy...

If you expended any effort to look you would see that last year Carey had more of a leash in terms of minutes played before Buddy went off in a game that Carey struggled in and they went on different trajectories from tjere

 

[kcsu]

I agree he needed to sit. What i will never understand is why JB feels compelled to put his players down in public.

 

[Millhouse]

I know that Boeheim is tough and some players can't handle quick hooks. But that is just not what's happened here IMO. If Boeheim were the softest cuddliest guy ever, what, would he risk losing to Colgate to keep this guy confident? I hope we're not going to have thread after thread of what if junk as if Carey could've been great here

 

[TheCusian]

You want a 2 guard who shoots less than 20% from 3?

I'm not sure what I'm missing but I completely underestimated the Jalen Carey love on this board. I must be watching completely different bball but He's not a high D1 basketball player.

he’s a high D1 athlete... wonder if ever played WR in high school

 

[Newhouser]

JG3 may be the most confident Frosh I've seen in our program in a while. Unlike other Frosh who got big minutes (melo, GMac, Ennis), he is battling others for minutes and playing knowing mistakes could lead to a quick hook, yet he plays like he's still in the Foothills Council battling Gloversville. He takes some shots and tries some passes that make you say "um easy young fella", but he also brings an energy and confidence that is innate and an intangible that this team (and frankly this program) needs. Not sure all players bring that sense of self to the program and are able to maintain it thru the rigors of JB and competition, but in a very limited sample size this kid plays with pace, energy, feel for the game, and self-confidence that is really fun to watch.

 

[shandeezy7]

Eh, Buddy had a different kind of leash than anyone else ever had. Again, I was all about it, and think it was maybe one of the few instances where we did seem to handle a young player that had early season struggles well, but the leash was undoubtedly different imo.

Revisionist history with a conclusion that can only be reached if you're seeing something that you want to see. I mean, I spelled it out pretty obviously in my post as to who had what kind of leash early in the season. Secondly, Boeheim has had plenty of guys come in - long before his son - who have had extremely long leashes, so your first line is absolute nonsense.
Last year's team desperately needed outside shooting. Battle and Brissett were nightmares from the three point line. Our only reasonable threat before Buddy came on was Hughes. How anyone can look at Buddy's game logs last year and say that he didn't earn his time on the court is mind-boggling to me.

 

[Ghost]

If you expended any effort to look you would see that last year Carey had more of a leash in terms of minutes played before Buddy went off in a game that Carey struggled in and they went on different trajectories from tjere

While still saying it was the "right" way to go after it - I think the leashes were different.

I'm not sure JB has ever taken such care in monitoring a player's progress. He sat him against Va Tech, because he knew he would get devoured. Much like he was overmatched against pressure D facing up with VA and certainly Baylor at the end of the year.

He only had to do all of one thing to earn court time - and that was the one thing he did best. I don't know that anyone was asked to do less as a Frosh to remain on the court (without criticism in press conferences about something...defense, playmaking, whatever), and I'm really not sure JB ever said to someone like Kaleb, JC, whomever, "This game is going to be a toughy - let's keep you out of the fray!" He did that for Buddy against Va Tech. As a young player we really positioned him to succeed...wish we did it more at other times.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

Feel the same way -- I wonder if something occurred at halftime.

No other explanation for him not plyaing.

Posted the same ? in game thread.

 

[Ghost]

Revisionist history with a conclusion that can only be reached if you're seeing something that you want to see. I mean, I spelled it out pretty obviously in my post as to who had what kind of leash early in the season. Secondly, Boeheim has had plenty of guys come in - long before his son - who have had extremely long leashes, so your first line is absolute nonsense.
Last year's team desperately needed outside shooting. Battle and Brissett were nightmares from the three point line. Our only reasonable threat before Buddy came on was Hughes. How anyone can look at Buddy's game logs last year and say that he didn't earn his time on the court is mind-boggling to me.

Wait, do you mean you spelled it out pretty obviously? Well, that settles that! Lock this THREAD! lolol

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

While still saying it was the "right" way to go after it - I think the leashes were different.

I'm not sure JB has ever taken such care in monitoring a player's progress. He sat him against Va Tech, because he knew he would get devoured. Much like he was overmatched against pressure D facing up with VA and certainly Baylor at the end of the year.

He only had to do all of one thing to earn court time - and that was the one thing he did best. I don't know that anyone was asked to do less as a Frosh to remain on the court (without criticism in press conferences about something...defense, playmaking, whatever), and I'm really not sure JB ever said to someone like Kaleb, JC, whomever, "This game is going to be a toughy - let's keep you out of the fray!" He did that for Buddy against Va Tech. As a young player we really positioned him to succeed...wish we did it more at other times.

Your projected quote would do more to undermine an athlete's confidence than anything else. It's a coach (and father) saying you are not good enough.

 

[shandeezy7]

Wait, do you mean you spelled it out pretty obviously? Well, that settles that! Lock this THREAD! lolol

The numbers don't lie, regardless of how much you want to push an unfounded narrative.

 

[OttoMets]

I don't think that's fair to say. Carey got lots of run at the beginning of last season and played himself out of the rotation. He got another chance later in the season, but didn't do much better.

I think he's an outstanding defender. He is fast down the court, but he is too out of control. He lacks the feel for the game of a true point guard. He doesn't really generate any offense in the half court. He dribbles into traffic too much and has trouble finishing at the rim.

There's a lot of evidence that he just doesn't get it.

I could use this response for a dozen people on here, so it's not really directed to you, but I think you just perfectly described Jason Hart and Adrian Autry after a season and 1.13 games of each player's college career.

I'm not the only one who's glad the Syracuse University basketball program afforded its point guards more time to develop back then. (And before somebody jumps in with a "but but but you could see flashes," no. You couldn't. Hart in particular was dreadful for his first two years: out of control, no feel, couldn't finish. Good defender, though. Sounds like a familiar skill set.)

 

[TexanMark]

Omg, Washington isn’t an ACC level starter. Anybody with a brain can see that.

Let’s be stop with this speculation and wait to see how it plays out. That’s just mean-spirited.

 

[OttoMets]

Didn’t buddy shoot 40 percent from 3 in ACC play last year?

He's probably chimed in already, but you just made his point.

Yes, Buddy had terrific numbers in the ACC, which we wouldn't have seen without the long leash that allowed him time to settle in after a first month that saw him shoot...a bit less than 40%.

 

[TexanMark]

My two cents... Carey is a fantastic athlete but this point in his career he is learning to be a basketball player.

I agree. I really don't want him to leave if he wants to stay and learn and get better and hopefully help the team. If he wants to pout and be a distraction then he should transfer.

 

[Ghost]

The numbers don't lie, regardless of how much you want to push an unfounded narrative.

Sooo, they did lie at the beginning of the year though? Stupid numbers. They make me mad.

 

[NKR1978]

The poor kid has no backing from the Syracuse fan base. He get pulled and the entire team goes nuts for Girard. Girard has done nothing that is far superior Carey. Kid missed a mid range open jumper and immediately pulled and never whiffed the court the rest of the year. SU is starved for athletic guards who can get out and run and putting Carey in purgatory to me means Boeheim is done with him and he may as well leave now. No real fair shake for a kid with so much talent.

I hate the way the fans cheer for Girard, I've said I think it's gross because it doesn't feel like they're cheering for JG3 so much as cheering against Carey - but the difference in the way the offense ran with him on the floor was clear.

 

[Ghost]

Your projected quote would do more to undermine an athlete's confidence than anything else. It's a coach (and father) saying you are not good enough.

I don't want him to say that - again, I think JB handled Buddy really, really, really well. I just don't know that we ever integrate anyone else into a role in that nature. Focus on the one thing you do well! No criticism about the gaps in the rest of your game - no comments about us "needing more" playmaking, defense, whatever...in post-game conferences.

My argument is solely that I think the treatment differed in many respects to what we see with other guards, I'm not even saying it was because Buddy was his son, perhaps it was just the roster/situation...but it was different than what I'm accustomed to, and, again, I thought it was largely a better way.

 

[Orangezoo]

What does Carey do better than Girard? Defense? Even so we don't really seem to lose much when he's been up top the 2 games.

Girard is the better shooter. He pushes the ball better(even though some want to claim Carey can push it). He sets guys up in their sweet spots to score better. He uses the PnR better. He passes better.

I believe last night I saw our first fast break alley-oop since Triche graduated/MCW went to the NBA.

I think some people want to see Carey do well, but the skill is not there. If he leaves this opens up time for Goodine as well who I really really like as a prospect.


JB is not kidding around. He feels the heat about the offense and is sick of being on the bubble.

My opinion is if we stuck with Carey for 30mpg is we were going to be white knuckling to 19 wins again and we still may with Girard/Goodine, but hopefully it's by a score of 70-75 instead of 55-60.

Also athleticism is overrated in basketball IMO. Some of our best guards have not been great athletes(scoop/Rautins/pearl etc) and I happen to think Girard is more athletic than people give him credit for.

Joe was much better defensively last night than he has looked. He had 3 steals and another deflection or two. He also plays the top of the zone like a defensive back reading the offensive player vs gambling so quickly. He is looking for a mistake on every possession. It speaks to his awareness and vision.

If you watch Carey, teams get the bounce pass into the FT Line against him a LOT. He doesn't even see it coming and it's far too easy. Carey defends his side well and is dangerous if you try passing it too much on the perimeter but otherwise he has defensive gaps too. Again Joe was much better and more active last night

 

[Millhouse]

I could use this response for a dozen people on here, so it's not really directed to you, but I think you just perfectly described Jason Hart and Adrian Autry after a season and 1.13 games of each player's college career.

I'm not the only one who's glad the Syracuse University basketball program afforded its point guards more time to develop back then. (And before somebody jumps in with a "but but but you could see flashes," no. You couldn't. Hart in particular was dreadful for his first two years: out of control, no feel, couldn't finish. Good defender, though. Sounds like a familiar skill set.)

hart could make a jump shot. wasn't a great shooter but not a total liability there.

 

[Cusefan0307]

I could use this response for a dozen people on here, so it's not really directed to you, but I think you just perfectly described Jason Hart and Adrian Autry after a season and 1.13 games of each player's college career.

I'm not the only one who's glad the Syracuse University basketball program afforded its point guards more time to develop back then. (And before somebody jumps in with a "but but but you could see flashes," no. You couldn't. Hart in particular was dreadful for his first two years: out of control, no feel, couldn't finish. Good defender, though. Sounds like a familiar skill set.)

Hart didn't play with a veteran pg his freshman year like Carey did in Frank and Autry was a Mcdonald's All American and competed against Michael Edwards. We have 2 other legit options this year that Hart never had to deal with. Also Carey's numbers have been terrible. We literally cannot score with him on the court.

I've never seen a guy as athletic as him get blocked at the rim so much against a Patriot League team no less. I mean I feel bad for the kid and thought he'd be good, but I can make an argument after watching he's the fifth best offensive guard on the team right now.

 

[shandeezy7]

I could use this response for a dozen people on here, so it's not really directed to you, but I think you just perfectly described Jason Hart and Adrian Autry after a season and 1.13 games of each player's college career.

I'm not the only one who's glad the Syracuse University basketball program afforded its point guards more time to develop back then. (And before somebody jumps in with a "but but but you could see flashes," no. You couldn't. Hart in particular was dreadful for his first two years: out of control, no feel, couldn't finish. Good defender, though. Sounds like a familiar skill set.)

I won't argue that Jason Hart wasn't an erratic player early in his career, but I think he did enough to offset that and earn play time. I wouldn't call his first couple years dreadful. As a freshman, he averaged 10 ppg, 6 apg and 3 spg (2nd in the Big East), although his shooting percentage numbers were pretty close to dreadful. That team also only had one other viable option at PG, who also happened to be a freshman (Rock Lloyd).

 

[OttoMets]

hart could make a jump shot. wasn't a great shooter but not a total liability there.

Can't say I remember it that way. It's kind of apples and oranges, since we're comparing a starter who in theory was in the flow of the game and a back-up whose shooting percentage should be a little worse. But Hart was a sub-40% shooter every season, I think, and way lower than that in his first two years. Don't know if the stats are available, but his jumpshooting percentage must've been significantly worse than that.