And there you go...

[Orangezoo]

Hart averaged nearly 10 pts a game, 6 ast a game and shot 33 pct from 3 as a freshman.

Autry nearly same pts and a shade less in assists at 5.3 vs 5.8 for Hart. He shot 32 pct from 3. I don't see where there is a direct relationship between these guys and Jalen here.

 

[Bayside44]

I could use this response for a dozen people on here, so it's not really directed to you, but I think you just perfectly described Jason Hart and Adrian Autry after a season and 1.13 games of each player's college career.

I'm not the only one who's glad the Syracuse University basketball program afforded its point guards more time to develop back then. (And before somebody jumps in with a "but but but you could see flashes," no. You couldn't. Hart in particular was dreadful for his first two years: out of control, no feel, couldn't finish. Good defender, though. Sounds like a familiar skill set.)

Adrian Autry came in as a pure PG that was a somewhat limited athlete. Heck the guy was third option on his high school team (Sealy and Reese ahead of him). Not even close to Jalen.

 

[OttoMets]

I won't argue that Jason Hart wasn't an erratic player early in his career, but I think he did enough to offset that and earn play time. I wouldn't call his first couple years dreadful. As a freshman, he averaged 10 ppg, 6 apg and 3 spg (2nd in the Big East), although his shooting percentage numbers were pretty close to dreadful. That team also only had one other viable option at PG, who also happened to be a freshman (Rock Lloyd).

This is a good point.

Don't get me wrong, I'm happy that Hart got that playing time. (Though there were times in 1997, after a bricked layup or a line-drive missed jumper with 29 on the shot clock, when I probably wasn't.) I like that Boeheim got minutes after a rough start last year. I like it for everyone. College basketball is about developing talent over four years. When you bring in a 4-star guard recruit, maybe he'll be ready and maybe he won't. The practice of first throwing him into the deep end and then benching him sucks.

 

[rrlbees]

Can't say I remember it that way. It's kind of apples and oranges, since we're comparing a starter who in theory was in the flow of the game and a back-up whose shooting percentage should be a little worse. But Hart was a sub-40% shooter every season, I think, and way lower than that in his first two years. Don't know if the stats are available, but his jumpshooting percentage must've been significantly worse than that.

Jason Hart

Syracuse University basketball profile for Jason Hart, player for the Orangemen. NBA player for 9 teams: Sacramento, Charlotte, San Antonio, Utah, Clippers, Denver, New Orleans, Milwaukee, and Minnesota

www.orangehoops.org

 

[shandeezy7]

Sooo, they did lie at the beginning of the year though? Stupid numbers. They make me mad.

He had a long leash the first two games and then his minutes were decimated for 10 games after that, with his only double-digit minutes coming against bottom-feeder non-conference teams. So he had his opportunity early, didn't take advantage of it and saw his minutes cut drastically, until he earned them back. Meanwhile, Jalen continued to get minutes while putting up walk-on-like stats. There's reason Buddy played more in ACC play while Jalen ride the pine, and it had nothing to do with being the coach's son.

 

[OttoMets]

Adrian Autry came in as a pure PG that was a somewhat limited athlete. Heck the guy was third option on his high school team (Sealy and Reese ahead of him). Not even close to Jalen.

Ah, you know I'm not comparing skillsets. I'm talking about patient development of young guards whose production stinks (and who the fans pile on). All three guys shared that characteristic early on.

 

[Orangezoo]

I won't argue that Jason Hart wasn't an erratic player early in his career, but I think he did enough to offset that and earn play time. I wouldn't call his first couple years dreadful. As a freshman, he averaged 10 ppg, 6 apg and 3 spg (2nd in the Big East), although his shooting percentage numbers were pretty close to dreadful. That team also only had one other viable option at PG, who also happened to be a freshman (Rock Lloyd).

Hart was also way more of a PG than Carey. Hart's mistakes were often forcing too many passes. Carey doesn't even attempt them or see them develop.

 

[OttoMets]

Jason Hart

Syracuse University basketball profile for Jason Hart, player for the Orangemen. NBA player for 9 teams: Sacramento, Charlotte, San Antonio, Utah, Clippers, Denver, New Orleans, Milwaukee, and Minnesota

www.orangehoops.org

There you go...at 0.329 and 0.260 from three his first two years, I think it's safe to say that his jumpshooting percentage was poor.

 

[alphaorange]

He reminds me of Dungey in that regard. Fearless, aggressive, tough, and with enough skills and attitude to make opponents hate him. We'll see if he can have the same sort of legacy as Eric. I love his lack of fear of pressure and the big moment.

 

[SaltLakeOrange]

Even if all of that is true he's been given every opportunity here. None of this changes the fact that he doesn't look like he belongs on the court with ACC-level players.

JB refused to throw Carey under the bus last night. When asked what Carey could do better, JB didn’t answer, instead told the reporter that he shouldn‘t have asked the question. This was a softball, and JB let it go...class act!

 

[Bayside44]

Ah, you know I'm not comparing skillsets. I'm talking about patient development of young guards whose production stinks (and who the fans pile on). All three guys shared that characteristic early on.

Red was a year behind me - I honestly don't remember much vitriol against him. The guy was on a #1 team for part of his freshman season. The year after when Billy left and probation looming everyone knew we were going nowhere.

But I digress, back to Jalen...

 

[supp]

I hope he sticks around for a bunch of reasons. One, I'd like to make it through one freaking season without drama. Two, Girard and Goodine will struggle. There is no doubt about it. On offense but even more so on defense. Better teams, quicker teams, bigger teams will make us pay for having Girard and Boeheim at the top of the zone. We can count the number of freshman guards that have instantly adjusted to the zone and its responsibilities on one hand over the years. Girard may help to make up for those sins on defense with more offense but Carey will be needed. Three, Girard is not ready for the grind of a college b'ball season. Hardly any freshman is.

 

[SaltLakeOrange]

I agree he needed to sit. What i will never understand is why JB feels compelled to put his players down in public.

He didn’t do that to Carey last night. He refused to bite on a softball question.

 

[orangenirvana]

The poor kid has no backing from the Syracuse fan base. He get pulled and the entire team goes nuts for Girard. Girard has done nothing that is far superior Carey. Kid missed a mid range open jumper and immediately pulled and never whiffed the court the rest of the year. SU is starved for athletic guards who can get out and run and putting Carey in purgatory to me means Boeheim is done with him and he may as well leave now. No real fair shake for a kid with so much talent.

The “poor kid” was handed the starting PG job of a celebrated Power 5 basketball program on a silver platter and dropped it the moment he touched it. You can’t blame the fanbase or Boeheim for that.

It’s as if some of you are watching a different sport. Colgate is a very good mid-major this season and if Carey played more than he did then Syracuse was in jeopardy of losing that game.

Despite Carey’s athleticism I don’t see this talent/high ceiling/potential people are saying he has. He’s a terrible shooter and doesn’t show the natural acumen/intelligence/awareness required to make up for that fatal flaw. He can blow by the first defender but what good is that when he doesn’t know what to do with the ball afterwards? He’s not a good distributor and most of his layups get blocked. How much better than a player like that become? Maybe a defensive specialist good for 5-10 minutes per game?

Girard is the superior player and it’s not even close. I’d say Goodine is also already better and certainly has way more potential.

 

[81South]

Every kid who comes to SU knows how JAB coaches. So it should come as no surprise once you start playing that you may feel his wrath.

I root for every kid to be successful in the class and on the court...I’m a dad and that’s just me. But having said that and based only on what I have seen in limited game action I think Jo Jo should be starting. I would bring JC off the bench and see if that makes him a more productive player. Some guys are just better coming off the bench and there’s no shame in that!

 

[OttoMets]

I agree to a point, but the offense ran much smoother when** Girard entered the game.

**A few minutes after Girard entered the game.

Not to quibble or anything. But he did have a settling-in period, it wasn't like somebody hit a switch and the offense started humming. There was some overpenetration, a funny missed turnaround spinning to his right (a more or less impossible shot for a righty).

But yes, Girard outplayed Carey by a wide margin and looked like a better point guard last night.

 

[dollarbill44]

The problem with JB is a kid will go from starting to never playing again. It makes no sense.

That's usually up to how the kid responds. There are plenty of examples of "doghouse " guys that come back strong. Frank Howard, for example.

 

[jdubs30]

Girard and Buddy have good instincts at the top but Colgate had plenty of open looks last night. ACC guards will have no problem with them. Carey is long, athletic and has a very good feel for the zone

 

[FloridaFan]

He's probably chimed in already, but you just made his point.

Yes, Buddy had terrific numbers in the ACC, which we wouldn't have seen without the long leash that allowed him time to settle in after a first month that saw him shoot...a bit less than 40%.

And yet the stats show that JC played more then buddy in Non-conference play last year

 

[OttoMets]

...

I believe last night I saw our first fast break alley-oop since Triche graduated/MCW went to the NBA.

I think some people want to see Carey do well, but the skill is not there. If he leaves this opens up time for Goodine as well who I really really like as a prospect.


JB is not kidding around. He feels the heat about the offense and is sick of being on the bubble.

My opinion is if we stuck with Carey for 30mpg is we were going to be white knuckling to 19 wins again and we still may with Girard/Goodine, but hopefully it's by a score of 70-75 instead of 55-60.

Also athleticism is overrated in basketball IMO. Some of our best guards have not been great athletes(scoop/Rautins/pearl etc) and I happen to think Girard is more athletic than people give him credit for.

I think, implausible as it sounds, Dolezaj and Chukwu connected on a similar play in the ACC last year.

But yeah, that was a sight for sore eyes. Buddy pushed the ball up court! Girard kept his head up and looked for a teammate! Guys filled lanes on a fast break (something we haven't seen in years)! Sidibe caught the ball and finished strong!

Also, Girard made an 85-foot outlet pass to Hughes later in the half that Hughes didn't do anything with. That was a sneaky athletic play to drop the ball in there like a quarterback, and also obviously heads-up and aggressive. I really am impressed with the kid's game.

 

[Millhouse]

Can't say I remember it that way. It's kind of apples and oranges, since we're comparing a starter who in theory was in the flow of the game and a back-up whose shooting percentage should be a little worse. But Hart was a sub-40% shooter every season, I think, and way lower than that in his first two years. Don't know if the stats are available, but his jumpshooting percentage must've been significantly worse than that.

he was a decent three point shooter. his shooting percentage was bad because he was an out of control spaz on every drive

 

[Cusefan0307]

Girard and Buddy have good instincts at the top but Colgate had plenty of open looks last night. ACC guards will have no problem with them. Carey is long, athletic and has a very good feel for the zone

We gave up 48 to UVA. The last thing we should worry about is defense. We have been white knuckling to wins scoring in the 50's for 6 years.

 

[TexanMark]

I hate the way the fans cheer for Girard, I've said I think it's gross because it doesn't feel like they're cheering for JG3 so much as cheering against Carey - but the difference in the way the offense ran with him on the floor was clear.

Semi-local kid who beat the odds, scoring legend, GMac2

 

[orangenirvana]

Girard and Buddy have good instincts at the top but Colgate had plenty of open looks last night. ACC guards will have no problem with them. Carey is long, athletic and has a very good feel for the zone

If only we could sub him in after each offensive possession and back out again when we get the ball back.

 

[Millhouse]

There you go...at 0.329 and 0.260 from three his first two years, I think it's safe to say that his jumpshooting percentage was poor.

carey is a lot worse