Anyone hear this new stadium rumor

[Crusty]

Here is all I need to know about cost numbers...

Fixed Roof $ < Retractable Roof $$$$

We're not getting Final Four's in Syracuse, not getting a BCS or Playoff Bowl game, not getting a superbowl etc. A retractable roof would be a waste of money. Even if it was given to SU by a super wealthy donor, its just a waste of money.

That is just silly.

 

[rocklloyd]

Brent Axe‏@BrentAxeMedia17m
I think it's an interesting balance. Mayor Minor is shutting down firehouses and city needs $ for basics but they may build new arena?

And we've struggled to raise $17m for indoor practice facility. C'mon folks. What's it going to cost somewhere north of $400m? I want lower frigging taxes before a new stadium. Carrier dome is just fine. Throw some brick on the outside of it to doll it up and we'll all survive quite nicely.

 

[BlazeOrange]

So, which sides agenda on the I-81 construction controversy does this rumor benefit?

 

[Crusty]

And we've struggled to raise $17m for indoor practice facility. C'mon folks. What's it going to cost somewhere north of $400m? I want lower frigging taxes before a new stadium. Carrier dome is just fine. Throw some brick on the outside of it to doll it up and we'll all survive quite nicely.

That kind of facility would not necessarily mean increased taxes. Just have to wait and see the numbers.

 

[rocklloyd]

So, which sides agenda on the I-81 construction controversy does this rumor benefit?

I'm guessing the knock-it-downers.

 

[690West]

What would happen to all the iconic SU small businesses in and around the campus (Varsity, Manny's, etc.) that rely on revenue from SU games if you put a stadium on South Campus or the Inner Harbor? Wouldn't they inevitably go under?

The thought of having a UConn-esque football atmosphere where we have a depressing stadium in the middle of a big soulless parking lot makes me want to punch myself in the face.

There are times when progressive forward thinking is great (i.e. the move to the ACC) but I think there are other times when you just need to not mess with something that has worked so perfectly for so long. I think this new stadium debate falls in the latter group.

We'd have to send them each a copy of "Who moved my cheese?"

 

[OburgOrange]

Needs to be part of Destiny, inner harbor, Armory. Monorails to the stadium. Heck, attach it right to Destiny. Families take a train from Buff/Roch/Albany. Shop, dine, game.

I love the dome. But, this makes way too much sense.

 

[Full_Rebar]

Probably will get blasted for this opinion, but I'd rather see the state/county spend the $ to build a new 10-12k arena for the Crunch/Silver Knights/concerts.

As a local, I look at it this way (and it's selfish admittedly), but SU isn't going anywhere and the Dome is a suitable venue. The War Memorial is awful, and a new arena would not only keep the Crunch around, but give the community a venue suitable for more concerts, performances, as well as providing a place in Syracuse for the Section 3/State Championships. All of these things combined would generate more local revenue than a new facility for SU.

 

[Jake]

Lets be clear here. If senator defrancisco is on the record acknowledging this project...it has legs. Defrancisco is a high ranking member if the senate finance committee. He doesnt wax poetic on anything that would make him look foolish.

Secondly, if you've ever seen the senators office, it is an Orange shrine. His involvement here is nothing but good news.

 

[GoSU96]

Or maybe it was because it was just off campus, and too big if a hassle for students.

It is asinine to repeat an avoidable mistake made elsewhere.

Putting it at the inner harbor just because there's space would be an example of not thinking things through.

Just because of space?

Uh, that's not the reason, there is plenty of open land in Onondaga County.

 

[JeremyCuse]

Lets be clear here. If senator defrancisco is on the record acknowledging this project...it has legs. Defrancisco is a high ranking member if the senate finance committee. He doesnt wax poetic on anything that would make him look foolish.

Secondly, if you've ever seen the senators office, it is an Orange shrine. His involvement here is nothing but good news.

Maybe in the 90's or early 2000's I would agree with you 100%, but the current financial state of Syracuse, Onondaga County and NYS is such that regardless of how high up Defrancisco is hes going to have a hard time getting the large amount of state funding this project would need to even think about getting off the ground. Also lets be honest, right now the figure people are using is $500 Million, when was the last time a Govt project actually came on or under budget? Were probably talking somewhere in the 600 Million + neighborhood at least, good luck getting the State to fund 50% + of that.

 

[HtownOrange]

From an old post last year in another thread:

"The new stadium will cost a lot, with or with out a roof, let alone a retractable roof. That will be the single issue to stop development of a new stadium. The roof system is expensive but making it retractable is not that much more expensive when compared to the fixed roof price or the overall cost of the stadium.

“The high cost comes in if you’re talking about adding a roof to a design that never had one to begin with. Putting a fixed roof on an open-air stadium could cost as much as $150 to $180 million depending on design,” said Pete Fervoy, business development manager at Uni-Systems, “Adding retractability to a fixed roof design could increase that total cost to $200 million, and I believe that’s where this misinformation is coming from.”

...

“If the $791 million stadium budget includes a roof, making that roof retractable would add less than $20 million – only 2.5% of the total cost,” said Fervoy. “We just want to set the record straight for Minnesotans. Making a fixed roof a retractable roof would not cost $200 million.”

...

“The cost to make the roof retractable is only 2.5% of the total cost,” added Waldron. “This 2.5% is the difference between a functional stadium and a great stadium with world-class attraction and multipurpose capabilities.”



From:
http://www.prlog.org/10662081-real-cost-of-vikings-stadium-retractable-roof.html

Per Wikipedia, Houston's Reliant Stadium would cost about $449MM in today's (2013) dollars. Reliant is a multi-purpose building but does not house baseball.

Realistically, Syracuse would need factor in the new stadium as a multi-purpose building and would need to consider baseball if that is the direction they are headed. The structure would need to be able to handle the Upstate NY weather, too."



As many on this board can attest, Reliant Stadium is quite nice! $450MM for a new stadium seating 71,500. We should be able to make it smaller and save a few bucks, too.

For those thinking the retractable roof would only be used for 3 football games, please consider soccer, lacrosse, concerts, and dare I say it: baseball (and possibly an outdoor hockey game!).

 

[OrangeAl]

It took years of conversation before the Dome became a reality. This must signal the beginning of a similar drive. As long as it becomes reality in the next twenty years we're in good shape.

 

[Crusty]

Probably will get blasted for this opinion, but I'd rather see the state/county spend the $ to build a new 10-12k arena for the Crunch/Silver Knights/concerts.

As a local, I look at it this way (and it's selfish admittedly), but SU isn't going anywhere and the Dome is a suitable venue. The War Memorial is awful, and a new arena would not only keep the Crunch around, but give the community a venue suitable for more concerts, performances, as well as providing a place in Syracuse for the Section 3/State Championships. All of these things combined would generate more local revenue than a new facility for SU.

Why would anyone outside of Syracuse support that? State championships are fine in the Dome. Just don't see the politics of that working.

 

[jr4750]

Whats amazing to see is that in terms of football stadiums, SU has one of the newest buildings in the ACC. Now this is obviously not accounting for upgrades over the years, but look at this list...

 

[Crusty]

If they keep it around 45k I could see it running around $500M but that is just a guess.

I wonder if we have the technology to be able to push more seats into a half dome configuration (like two decks)? I'd think you'd have to keep them bench seating to save weight. I really think we need to keep our seating capacity to 27-30k for hoops.

Another thing about the capacity...it might be similar in size to the current Dome but will it have suites (Lexus and Chase) like at MetLife? That cuts down on capacity but is an income generator. The retractable roof to me is essential.

The big downside with the Kennedy area is we'll have scattered, urban tailgating still. Can we get the students up and down the hill? Would a rack/cog rail line work up the hill or is it not that big a concern and light rail is fine? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rack_railway If they build this without an integrated mass transit (light rail) they are going to be sorry.

South Campus and the Inner Harbor area tailgating would be much better. I think South Campus would be the best but the Inner Harbor would be similar to MetLife Tailgating. The biggest advantage with the Inner Harbor is the ability to link the University-Downtown-Inner Harbor-Destiny-Alliance/Train Depot and the Airport via light rail. Syracuse could really benefit from this. Highway infrastructure is there already. Land is available to build a spur line for light rail. Congel very well could be the naming sponsor and he could build his emerald OZ hotel too!

The huge downside to the inner harbor is the site is furthest away from campus. I really enjoy having games on campus. But let's be honest even South Campus is really not going to feel much like being next to the Quad. So many different angles.

What is that picture?

 

[OttoMets]

The Dome is good enough and really only minor upgrades are needed to keep the place going and viable, but lets be honest the land it is on would be "perfect" for many other projects at the University. They have built up around the Dome so much in the past few years with so many new buildings and such near ESF and that side of the Dome that you know they have big plans if they could take the Dome down to do many other things on that location. Moving that sports complex and upgrading it as well, off campus to another area is a dream for them.

I hope it happens, I just don't see it happening anytime soon.

Since there's already a large reinforced concrete building on the Dome site, it's hardly perfect for other building projects.

With almost 100,000 square feet of space directly next to the Dome coming free in four months and acres of adjacent parcels completely vacant, the university's real estate needs are taken care of for the next several decades. They don't need the Dome space.

 

[OrangePA]

We couldn't sell out the Dome in the McNabb days so I can't see building a place bigger than the Dome for football. I think 45,000 would be perfect.

We essentially sold out the Dome during the McNabb era.

With the growth of college football - with the ACC - with the development of the program - with great amenities - CNY could sell out a 60,000 stadium.

I recall in the late 1970s when people dismissed a 50,000 seat stadium while Archbold was struggling to attract 20,000 to football games.

 

[jr4750]

Probably will get blasted for this opinion, but I'd rather see the state/county spend the $ to build a new 10-12k arena for the Crunch/Silver Knights/concerts.

As a local, I look at it this way (and it's selfish admittedly), but SU isn't going anywhere and the Dome is a suitable venue. The War Memorial is awful, and a new arena would not only keep the Crunch around, but give the community a venue suitable for more concerts, performances, as well as providing a place in Syracuse for the Section 3/State Championships. All of these things combined would generate more local revenue than a new facility for SU.

It's interesting you say that, and I agree, the concept should be built to build revenue locally first. Any venue that could accomodate SU football, Basketball, lax, concerts, graduation, hockey (someday) the Crunch, Silver Knights, monster truck shows , etc., would probably stay busy enough to justify it's funding. Not sure logistically that could even work, but there are certainly events to fill the venue.

 

[OttoMets]

Is this the Kennedy Square Area?
https://maps.google.com/maps?q=13244&hl=en&ll=43.049525,-76.138247&spn=0.004406,0.010568&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=39.047881,86.572266&t=h&hnear=Syracuse, New York 13244&z=17

Yeah, and I don't see how it could accommodate a stadium

Also, SUNY Upstate has been working on a public/private development of that site for some time. Perhaps their leadership shake-up will change their expansion plans, but that would surprise me.

They've already started installing the new infrastructure on the site.

 

[OttoMets]

Please. As if the City of a Syracuse is the only player in this. Dumby

I'm skeptical, but Brent Axe knows nothing.

 

[OttoMets]

That might be one of the worst places they could think off. Horrible location.

Why?

It's a ten-minute walk from the Hill and closer still to Downtown. Easy access from every direction by a number of modes of transportation.

 

[IthacaMatt]

This would be a bad move. Here in Minneapolis, the U of M used to play at the Metrodome--10 minutes away from campus via public transportation from some parts of campus, but literally a 10 minute walk from other parts. But students didn't go and barely turned out for most games--it was just too far and too much of an inconvenience.

It's all a matter of perspective. 10 minutes is nothing to adults who already commute to the game. What's the difference between driving to campus or the inner harbor? But it would make all the difference in the world to students.

Students make up such a small, small portion of our fan base that it should not even be considered. It's the townies that keep this program going.

 

[IthacaMatt]

The thing about this that doesn't make sense to me is: we can't even pull together $20M via fundraising for the IPF, but we are supposed to believe that the logistics can be worked out on a new stadium that would conservatively cost $500M, and probably a lot more?

Yes, I get that the state would contribute to funding any new stadium, but it just doesn't make sense numbers wise.

Ax the retractable roof. That's just an idiotic idea. That takes away probably 1/3 of the price tag.

And I imagine that they will do a better job negotiating the naming rights this time.

 

[Crusty]

New Chancellor wanting to make his mark with alum? Gov re-election?

Nobody has a goal of the status quo.